Question?

[Willo]

G'day,

I have been reading about the salvation army at the time of founding with General Booth, and I see a gutsy band of men and women that fear nothing, and went out and dragged sinners from the fires.

I mean, they were red hot on evangelism, and seeking and saving that which is lost.

But now, I look at the army, and I see an army that is more focused on charity, which is good. But I don't see them on the streets calling sinners to repentence like they used to.

Now here is the question: Do you believe the army today needs to return to its orignal zeal?

also: What do you think William Booth would say about the army today, if he were alive?

Thanks

God Bless

Willo

[Andy Broadley]

Willo, this thread should be written in letters 20 feet high on the wall of every corps in the world. Did you ever hit the nail on the head or what.

I'm going to respond to this better, but not right now as I have to go very soon. I'll come back to this again tomorrow, I promise. And I hope that many others will do the same.

But for a quick first reaction: Do I think we need to return to our origional zeal?

You bet your boots I do!!

What would Booth say about the state of his Army? I shudder to think, but I suspect that it would take some considerable time for him to say it and that we wouild be left in no doubt as to his feelings at the end of it.

Thank you very very much for this Willo, it's about time the sleeping giant got a massive wake up call.

I'll be back

[something from the fridge]

Now here is the question: Do you believe the army today needs to return to its orignal zeal?



yes. you can't even hear the music coming out of our building anymore cos it is so secure and sealed up to keep the airconditioning in. back in the old days (2003) we'd have church with all the windows open and sweating like pigs. But there was no doubting from surrounding houses and people passing by as to what was going on in there.

the only time i feel we do anything is when we are playing carols in the streets at christmas, and often that seems to just be an excuse to collect money.

[Andy Broadley]

yes. you can't even hear the music coming out of our building anymore cos it is so secure and sealed up to keep the airconditioning in. back in the old days (2003) we'd have church with all the windows open and sweating like pigs. But there was no doubting from surrounding houses and people passing by as to what was going on in there.

the only time i feel we do anything is when we are playing carols in the streets at christmas, and often that seems to just be an excuse to collect money.

We seem be be obsessed with being acceptable and scared of upsetting anyone any more.

Time for a bit of good old fashioned in -your-face evangelism, and hang the consequences.

[Delta One]

Hello Willo,

But now, I look at the army, and I see an army that is more focused on charity, which is good. But I don't see them on the streets calling sinners to repentence like they used to.

My grandparents on my mum's side are retired Salvation Army officers and my grand dad (us grand children call him "Da") recalls how the people would stop and listen to the music played by the brass bands as they walked down the street and then continue on with their lives when he read from the Bible.

Now here is the question: Do you believe the army today needs to return to its orignal zeal?

YES! We need to get out in the community like what our founders used to do. Even if the music is the only thing that they listen too at first, the seed has been planted. When the people see that the Salvos are just normal people with an extrordinary power. The hope that we have in Christ we should show in our everyday life. People may start to become inquisitive (which is what God wants -- I found out from today's sermon! Wow, God gives me the information when I need it!) and then start to search for why the Salvos have so much hope and why they are different.

also: What do you think William Booth would say about the army today, if he were alive?

That's a though question that I cannot answer. I think that he'd prefer us to get out there and be a positive example for Christ showing to all the hope that Christians have with kindness and meekness.

God Bless.

Thanks, and you too.

Delta One.

[Delta One]

We seem be be obsessed with being acceptable and scared of upsetting anyone any more.

It's ashame what our country has become. For making a sermon that "offends" some homosexuals can get you in a lot of trouble. In todays society, you can get the socks sued off you for the most silly things. We must trust that God will protect us against such rubbish. This whole idea of tolerance and peace. Jesus didn't come to make peace -- he came to be divisive! That's not to say that we shouldn't be kind to everyone, but we can't hide behind the view or be beaten by the view of tolerance, IMO.

Time for a bit of good old fashioned in -your-face evangelism, and hang the consequences.

Amen to that!

Delta One.

[Evangelina]

Well, I have a passion very close to my heart, which is waiting at the moment (I think) on God's preparation and timing. About a year ago it occured to me that the 'New Age' movement attracts people because it's out there. Simple, eh. Fortune-tellers at the local markets, etc. When people want some reassurance or comfort, they can have their palm read and have a talk at the same time. So... I want to see a 'prayer tent' at the markets. Just somewhere people can go, talk, get some FREE prayer, comfort, and maybe a cuppa. I think God wants it too :)

[elm0]

ITF, that sounds a bit like what North Bris are looking at doing atm. The idea, if I've heard right, is to lease a small shop and have free tea and coffee, and maybe some stuff for sale, but mainly just somewhere people can go for a chat, and also be offered prayer. There are a lot of lonely people out there that just want someone to talk to.

[TheDag]

What do you think William Booth would say about the army today, if he were alive?
I couldn't care less what william booth would think of the army today. His view is not important.

Now here is the question: Do you believe the army today needs to return to its orignal zeal?
Yes some of the army has lost that zeal (you may want to look at the Salvos stuck in the past thread as alot said there applies to this as well) but some corps haven't lost their zeal. Where the army has lost their way is treating some aspects like a business. Why on earth do the Salvation Army family stores charge Salvation Army Youth Outreach Service(YOS) for clothes??? YOS are trying to help homeless and others in tough situations. The Australian government gives salvos and other like organisations tax breaks and then we lose sight of our goal.

[Rebirth In Flames]

This has been a hot topic recently in SA seminary training for officers, so it’s interesting to hear someone outside the army mention it. Here’s how it’s going to work in a few years from now: Either the evangelical side to the army with die away and the charity will only remain, or there will be a revolution within the ranks that will help us bring us back to our evangelical priorities in the salvation of souls into God’s eternal kingdom. We’ll see; right now there’s a bit of tension in that debate.

[Evangelina]

This has been a hot topic recently in SA seminary training for officers, so it’s interesting to hear someone outside the army mention it. Here’s how it’s going to work in a few years from now: Either the evangelical side to the army with die away and the charity will only remain, or there will be a revolution within the ranks that will help us bring us back to our evangelical priorities in the salvation of souls into God’s eternal kingdom. We’ll see; right now there’s a bit of tension in that debate.
There WILL be a revolution? Hehe... don't know about USA but it's already happening here... :D

[elm0]

Sure is.

[Rebirth In Flames]

hehe... yea, the US is a little behind in comparison to you guys! Keep up the good work over there!! :amen:

[Blueskies]

Things must have changed a lot since I was in the Army. We used to have open air services all summer (and, brrr, sometimes in the winter.) The band used to do "concerts" at nursing homes and other churches, we were constantly reminded of our responsibility as believers to try to spread the word. The youth group did community service projects at least once a month.

We had altar calls all summer, carole singing at Christmas, and generally always seemed to have ourselves out there in front of the community. Our youth group was huge, and our band numbered about 20-30.

I'm going to pray for the Salvation Army to have a great move of the spirit, and to get the evangelical zeal back!!

[Rev Joe]

:holy: I would like them to return to a little more like they were. Maybe some of us would not be intimitated when they may be out there also at Christmas time instead of the hired help they use during Christmas who are rude and pushy. :(

[Athanasian Creed]

Boy, the OP sure hit the proverbial "nail on the head."

As a former Salvationist (Junior Soldier) who grew up in the SA, had a cousin who was an officer and others who were soldiers in the SA. I had a great respect for the Army but now, i can truly say that it seems as if some in the SA have left their first love - that compromise, pride or a general apathy has settled in where once was an all-for-Jesus attitude. I read the Red Shield appeal material and am grieved at heart - "look at us, see our works, how great we are, how faithful to our mission we have been" Where is Jesus in all this - there is no mention of Christ - IS IT OUT OF FEAR OF OFFENDING PEOPLE, AFRAID THEY WON'T GIVE $$$ IF THEY MENTION HIS NAME ??? If so - SHAME !!! I'm sorry - it's not like it was when i was very involved in the Army back in the early 70's. I have stopped giving financially because of this prevailing attitude unfortunately.

If William Booth saw the state of GOD'S Army (it's not his army) he would be ASHAMED of it, i fear. Pray that the fire of the Holy Spirit fall on the SA worldwide like He did in the early days - baptizing them with a love for souls and a boldness to proclaim Jesus FEARLESSLY with no regard to their own lives. :prayer::bow:


Ray :wave:

[elm0]

I've just come home from church, where our captain was talking about following Jesus' example and loving people boldly. God does not promise a life of security, but of adventure, if we're willing to step out in His name. We need to change what people think when they hear the word Christian, and we need to do this by showing them what it really means!

Pray that the fire of the Holy Spirit fall on the SA worldwide like He did in the early days - baptizing them with a love for souls and a boldness to proclaim Jesus FEARLESSLY with no regard to their own lives.

I agree with your prayer, but would extend it to cover the whole of God's army, the whole Church! We are all soldiers in the same fight, no matter what denomination we might be :prayer: