Once Saved, Always Saved -- God's Holy Promise

[Matthan]

(NOTE: I posted this thread over in GT (I know I'll get beat up there), but I also wanted critical comments from Baptist / Anabaptists. They are important to me in learning more about our God)

I am dismayed that so many people in CF disregard what is clearly presented in Holy Scripture. Jesus, in the Third Chapter of John, verse 15, tells us,

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

This verse is immediately followed by what may be the most popular verse in the New Testament. In verse 16, our Lord states,

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

And, this verse is followed with a continuation of this important lesson. In verses 17 and 18 we find,

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

What is the common promise of all of these three quotations from Scripture? Jesus is here clearly telling us that, upon completion of His work on earth, and including His resurrection and subsequent ascension into Heaven, anyone who truly believes that He is the Son of God will receive the gift of eternal life.

Please take notice that I stated ‘WILL RECEIVE’. These verses are extremely clear on that particular point. God Himself is here telling us of His promise to us. He is not mincing words, neither is He equivocating or qualifying His promise in any way. It is clearly stated in three different ways, but always with the same ending, which is salvation for believers. It is totally complete. It is simplicity itself in both its statement and understanding.

Verse 17 is particularly enlightening in that it clearly tells us there are two "types" of people in the world: those that believe in Jesus as the Christ of God, and those who are already condemned to eternal perdition and are essentially just waiting for their sentence to be imposed.

The argument often heard among those who do not believe God’s Truth that, once we are saved eternally, we remain in that blessed state eternally, is that "people change." A person might "accept" Jesus as the Christ of God on Monday, and reject Him in favor of fleshly pleasures on Friday, so to speak (the interval can actually be months or even years). That argument is without merit. It denies God’s omniscience, or His having complete and infinite knowledge and understanding in all matters. When any person accepts Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb of God, God already knows what feelings about Jesus are to be found in that person’s heart. He knows absolutely if the person’s belief is temporal (fleeting) or immutable (durable). The Holy Spirit is also infallible, and will only enter into the latter, and never the former. God will not accept our lip service, that we say we want to serve Him (but a love for Him is not also solidly embedded in our hearts). True Christians do not change their belief in God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

What do we know absolutely about any church or religious institution that does not clearly teach and hold fast to the promise of God that, once we are saved by our belief in Jesus as the Christ of God, we are then and forever secure in our eternal future with Him? We know from Scripture that such a church or religious institution is preaching another gospel, and teaching another Jesus. Paul warns both us and the Corinthians with:

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2nd Corinthians 11:3-4)

Anyone who does not believe the promise from God found in the Third Chapter of John is being or has been beguiled (deceived) by whomever or whatever institution taught them the false gospel. They have ignored or disregarded the promise from God that is found repeatedly in Scripture in favor of the false teaching of man. Eventually they must decide for themselves to either believe God’s Truth, or ignore what He gives us in His Holy Word.

God promises that anyone who believes in Jesus as the Christ of God will receive eternal life. He also promises that anyone who does not believe that fact is condemned for all eternity. Why? They are adhering to another gospel, and it is a false gospel. It cannot be of God (such would make God a liar), so therefore they cannot belong to God either (they are believing the lie, and not the Truth of Scripture so clearly given us by God).

God always keeps His promises. The person who does truly believe in Him will ALWAYS received a baptism by the Holy Spirit as He enters into that person's body. And, God is never an "Indian-giver". When He gives someone His grace, it is for all eternity. It is never taken back at any time in the future. His infallible omniscience guarantees His rightness in all things, including the giving of His grace.

And please, take special note. The above essay is not my "opinion." It is also not my "judgement" on anyone. It is the Truth of God as it is found in Scripture. If anyone finds fault with this post, let them show where the error lies in Scripture, and not in the simple faith and understanding of the writer.

Matthan <J><

[ZiSunka]

2Ti 1:12 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=2ti+1:12&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

[Gwenyfur]

Romans 8:1 Ther is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

[FreeinChrist]

Amen!

[rural_preacher]

Amen. It's all about the Grace of God...to the praise of His glory!

Ephesians 1:13,14

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession–to the praise of His glory."


--

[Flynmonkie]

I am dismayed that so many people in CF disregard what is clearly presented in Holy Scripture. Jesus, in the Third Chapter of John, verse 15, tells us,


I know the feeling, then finally I realized...people didn't get it then and we still have that same problem today.
Good Post!
:)

[Carrye]

That argument is without merit. It denies God’s omniscience, or His having complete and infinite knowledge and understanding in all matters. When any person accepts Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb of God, God already knows what feelings about Jesus are to be found in that person’s heart. He knows absolutely if the person’s belief is temporal (fleeting) or immutable (durable). The Holy Spirit is also infallible, and will only enter into the latter, and never the former. God will not accept our lip service, that we say we want to serve Him (but a love for Him is not also solidly embedded in our hearts). True Christians do not change their belief in God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

Just a couple of observations and a question, if you will oblige.

Observations:
1) It's interesting how different people read the words of scripture and draw different conclusions based upon the same words. That's no judgment, just something that struck me as interesting . . . about the highest compliment I can give.

2) In your last line, you said God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. Just for clarity's sake, in the future you might want to say Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit, or Fr, Son, and HS.

Question:
1) So could a person say that he/she is saved and really not be? Because you said that God knows whether an individual's faith is temporal or eternal, so a person might think that his faith is eternal when it really is not, right?

[ZiSunka]

Just a couple of observations and a question, if you will oblige.
2) In your last line, you said God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. Just for clarity's sake, in the future you might want to say Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit, or Fr, Son, and HS.

Hi Carrye. I think Matthan said it right, to convey the message he was trying to convey. We cannot change any of the persons of God, they are who and what they are. We cannot change the Father, the Son OR the Holy Spirit.


Question:
1) So could a person say that he/she is saved and really not be? Because you said that God knows whether an individual's faith is temporal or eternal, so a person might think that his faith is eternal when it really is not, right?

Matthan didn't say it, Jesus did! He said that at the last day, people would come to him and say, "how can you condemn us Lord, didn't we do all sorts of stuff for you?" And Christ will say, "I never even knew who you were. Stop begging me, you who lived lawlessly."

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Matthew 7:21-23

[Carrye]

Hi Carrye. I think Matthan said it right, to convey the message he was trying to convey. We cannot change any of the persons of God, they are who and what they are. We cannot change the Father, the Son OR the Holy Spirit.

It's not about changing the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but conveying our faith with the words we have to express that faith. My point to Matthan was that saying "God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit" implies that Jesus and the HS are not God. Of course that's not what Matthan meant, but if I was an unbeliever, that's what I would think.

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Matthew 7:21-23

So a person could think that he's saved and really not be?

[ZiSunka]

It's not about changing the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, but conveying our faith with the words we have to express that faith. My point to Matthan was that saying "God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit" implies that Jesus and the HS are not God. Of course that's not what Matthan meant, but if I was an unbeliever, that's what I would think.

Since you are a believer, and do understand it, then there's really no point in arguing about it. ;)



So a person could think that he's saved and really not be?

Asked and answered.

[GreenEyedLady]

I am dismayed that so many people in CF disregard what is clearly presented in Holy Scripture. Matthan <J><




AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
SAVED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!!!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Terri]

You have to understand grace alone through faith alone to understand just how much our dear Father loves us.

Once you know how much your Father loves you then you know He would never leave you nor forsake you just as He says.

It really all comes down to whether you BELIEVE what He says in the Bible or not. You can't just believe it in a sort of "oh yeah, I believe it," attitude. It has to be a "I believe you with all of my heart and my soul and my strength," attitude. And this attitude only comes from seeking God through His written Word (the Bible) with all of your heart.

[Matthan]

Carrye, I read your interchange with LambsLove. In the end we only have one truth that we can absolutely believe in, and that is God's Truth as it has been transmitted to us through Scripture. It is through this source alone that we learn the truth about the Glory of God in His three persons. There is NOTHING ELSE that we can absolutely rely on for God's Truth, regardless of whatever man might declare to the contrary.

So, it comes down to a choice for each of us. We can either believe what God has told us, or we can believe what man tells us. And, should any of us choose man's reasoning over God, what message does that send to God? Who do we really love? Who do we really trust?

That is why it is Scripture alone that will lead us to God. Sinful man can never, ever do that -- unless he, too, relies on Scripture alone to teach us God's absolute truth.

And the warning from Jesus that I mentioned in verse 17 (John 3) becomes clearer. Those of us who truly believe God's Truth as He gave it to us are not condemned, which is the same as saying saved eternally. However, anyone (Everyone!) who does not believe His Truth is already condemned. They are ALL going to eternal perdition, according to verse 17, which is God's Truth! Why are they already condemned? Because they did not believe as Jesus taught them (and all of us) to believe.

Now, is it possible for any of those persons who are already "condemned" to come out of condemnation and be joined with the saints who are saved? YES! YES! YES! If they turn their backs on ALL of the wrongful teachings of man and instead cling mightly and solely to God's Truth, they can be saved. Let me restate that. They WILL BE SAVED by God's grace. WHY? Just go back and read my original post on why true Christians are truly Once Saved, Always Saved. It is God's absolute promise to all believers. And, unlike sinful man, He never breaks a promise to us.

Matthan <J><

[MbiaJc]

Matthan


What is the common promise of all of these three quotations from Scripture? Jesus is here clearly telling us that, upon completion of His work on earth, and including His resurrection and subsequent ascension into Heaven, anyone who truly believes that He is the Son of God will receive the gift of eternal life.

:amen:



What do we know absolutely about any church or religious institution that does not clearly teach and hold fast to the promise of God that, once we are saved by our belief in Jesus as the Christ of God, we are then and forever secure in our eternal future with Him? We know from Scripture that such a church or religious institution is preaching another gospel, and teaching another Jesus. Paul warns both us and the Corinthians with:

Not so! You are contradicting the verry scriptures you gave to prove eternal security.

To teach another gospel one hast to be denying Jesus, just not fully understanding doctrine is not denying Jesus. For God will take care of that.

If they believe in Jesus and teach Jesus then it is not another gospel. Just because they don't understand correctly all doctrine.

Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing Ido, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall revel even this unto you. Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall revel even this unto you.

(2nd Corinthians 11:3-4)

Anyone who does not believe the promise from God found in the Third Chapter of John is being or has been beguiled (deceived) by whomever or whatever institution taught them the false gospel. They have ignored or disregarded the promise from God that is found repeatedly in Scripture in favor of the false teaching of man. Eventually they must decide for themselves to either believe God’s Truth, or ignore what He gives us in His Holy Word.

Paul tells us in one place that the strong ought to support the weak, which I think applies here also. I think weakness can be compared to ones knowledge of God. For one to gorw in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Chrust, it takes the Holy Spirit revealing it to him. Which is a subject of its own.

God promises that anyone who believes in Jesus as the Christ of God will receive eternal life.

:amen: However it says the ones that believe in Jesus. It doesn't say one hast to be perfect in all his doctrine.


And please, take special note. The above essay is not my "opinion." It is also not my "judgement" on anyone. It is the Truth of God as it is found in Scripture. If anyone finds fault with this post, let them show where the error lies in Scripture, and not in the simple faith and understanding of the writer.


The problem is never with scripture, verry seldom with ones faith, most always with one understandintg of scripture. So you see the problem is with the verry thing you say not to find fault with, the understanding of the writer.

[Xaviere]

Hi All

I'm new to the forum. I was looking for a good place to have intelligent Christian conversations. Seems I found the correct place.

As a Southern Baptist in ministry the concept of Once Saved, Always Saved is a topic of hot debate. I think it would be fair to say that is a catch phrase ("Once Saved, Always Saved"). I think the undertones of that saying would imply that one could give assent of faith and then turn back around and do as they wish from a Worldy viewpoint. As Christians we know that this is not the case. A friend and colleague of mine gave me a most interesting phrase and I will offer it up here. The phrase is:

"Love God and do what you want!"

Just think about that for a second or two (or more). As a blood bought, bible believing, born again Christian I know from my personal testimony that the act of being saved changes someones "WANT TOs" (If you can excuse the poor grammar).

I find that the phrase "Once Saved, Always Saved" is as improper as looking at a another group and claiming that all they are concerned with are "Works". For us to create criteria for whom is and is not Saved is not our place. God took care of this a long time ago.

I submit to you this thought ... It's all the above! Just check out Galations 5:22-26. This will give you a guide post btw what is of the Spirit and Kingdom of God. The things of the flesh are mentioned above. I wish there was a simple answer that I could give but it comes down to a PERSONAL relationship btw a person and God.

Now to address the thought that usually sits in opposition of "Once Saved, Always Saved" .... "Loss of Salvation". I could go into a sermon about this but I will let God's word help ya there ....

John 10:
25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30“I and the Father are one.”

God Bless each of you and I look forward to more discussions here.

Blessings .... X

[eutychus]

There's a tension that both Baptists and The Others forget about when having this discussion: Jesus is the Good Shepherd who never loses one of his flock, but who is a true member of the flock?

One who perseveres and runs the race to obtain salvation is a member of the flock. All others are false. Salvation is not by works at all, but instead works confirm salvation as one's soul is regenerated and anew. Only a person who perseveres has been saved through God's electing grace and faith--that is proof.

Heb. 6:10-12, "God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised."

1 John 2:18-19, Phil. 3:12-14, 1 Tim. 6:12

[FreeinChrist]

I prefer to explain it as "continuance in the faith is the evidence of our salvation".


A also think that the catch - phrase "Once saved, always saved" is lacking.

[vrunca]

Hi friends!!

I read the title of this thread and tried to read some of the posts, but I have a problem doing that. I have ADD and you may or may not have answered this question already, I don't really know, because I get kind of lost reading long posts....it's kind of embarrassing :blush: . So anyway, please forgive me if this has already been asked and/or answered and excuse the verbage that may be lacking on my part, my attention span is about as long as my little toenail!

O.k, with that being said: If a person say as a youngster with all of his/her heart and soul gives himself to Jesus and accepts Jesus as his/her Lord and Savior, then they are saved right? Let's just say that it is right, (but please still correct me if I am wrong!), well then as an adult this same person rebukes Christ and becomes a pagan...is that person still saved?

Please, please again forgive me and be patient with me, I have always wondered this and have been explained many times, but never could understand. Like I tell my kids, when you have to explain something to me, speak slow and use simple words, I am not the fastest bunny in the forest! Thanks so much for your help in this!

Peace and Love of Christ,
Veronica

[mesue]

:hug: vrunca!!! :hug:

One would argue that the youngster wasn't at the age of awareness or understanding. But all children under this age of awareness go to heaven when they die.

But, let's say the child was aware.
Once saved, always saved.
You can run away from God, but He will never run away from you.

You will bear no fruit in this pagan state of mind, and therefore not recieve an award, but once saved, always saved.

[vrunca]

:hug: Mesue!!!:hug: Miss ya girlie!!


So, would it be fair to say that God wont leave you to die in this state of being a pagan, He will guide you back to Him before you leave this world?

If so (and again I am truly just trying to get an answer, this is in no way meant as a way of arguing, I am not asking to prove you wrong, it is only because I don't have an answer for this), how does free will work with that....meaning: If God wont allow you to die before you change your ways again, back to Him, how is that allowing free will to happen? (does that make any sense, I hope it does!:blush: )

I kind of have a thought about it, but I may be way, way off on this....my thought is that you use your free will to choose to accept Christ as your Lord and personal Savior. At this point you are saying that no matter what happens in the future you are asking God to save you from yourself??? You definately abandon yourself to God by accepting Jesus as your savior, but you also abandon your free will when it comes to dying in a state of serious sin, such as paganism????

[mesue]

:hug: Mesue!!!:hug: Miss ya girlie!!
I missed you too!


So, would it be fair to say that God wont leave you to die in this state of being a pagan, He will guide you back to Him before you leave this world?
One would argue that if one were truly saved they would not have turned their back on God in the first place if one had truly accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.
I cannot know a persons heart, that is for God to judge.
Blasphemy is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. Paganism is blasphemy. One would have to ask; was that person really saved?

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Is there someone that I can pray for?
PM me if you need to.
Sometimes people get mad at God for various reasons and rebel.
Just like a person can be Christian on the outside and empty on the inside, so can someone who runs from God and rebels. God knows their heart and if thy're truly saved the Holy Spirit can get through where no one else can because once you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit you are always indwelled.

[vrunca]

thank you so much for your help with this, I feel like I understand this more now....it really and truly was not about anyone inperticular, it was just something that I have always wondered about and never understood. But if you want to you can always pray for me, I love being prayed for and take all of the prayers I can get!!;) And I will keep you in my prayers too!!


Love ya!!:hug:

[mesue]

:hug: I would love to pray for you!! :hug:

[MbiaJc]

Hi friends!!



I read the title of this thread and tried to read some of the posts, but I have a problem doing that. I have ADD and you may or may not have answered this question already, I don't really know, because I get kind of lost reading long posts....it's kind of embarrassing . So anyway, please forgive me if this has already been asked and/or answered and excuse the verbage that may be lacking on my part, my attention span is about as long as my little toenail!



O.k, with that being said: If a person say as a youngster with all of his/her heart and soul gives himself to Jesus and accepts Jesus as his/her Lord and Savior, then they are saved right? Let's just say that it is right, (but please still correct me if I am wrong!), well then as an adult this same person rebukes Christ and becomes a pagan...is that person still saved?



Please, please again forgive me and be patient with me, I have always wondered this and have been explained many times, but never could understand. Like I tell my kids, when you have to explain something to me, speak slow and use simple words, I am not the fastest bunny in the forest! Thanks so much for your help in this!



Peace and Love of Christ,

Veronica



In your sarino if they confess the Lord Jesus and believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead they shall be saved.



Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



John tells us that once we believe and are sealed with the Holy Spirit it is impossible to sin{go back into unbelief}.



So according to the above scriptures it would be impossible for them to rebuke Jesus Christ.

[Fat]

OSAS?
Rom 11:29 since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

Yes

[SonOfThunder]

OSAS?
Rom 11:29 since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

Yes

Sorry to be dumb here, :sigh: for many many weeks I have read OSAS and still can't work out what it is, is it a religion or another thread spot in CF? (CF = Christian Forum) ;)

James

[mesue]

Sorry to be dumb here, :sigh: for many many weeks I have read OSAS and still can't work out what it is, is it a religion or another thread spot in CF? (CF = Christian Forum) ;)

James
You're not dumb.
There are some that think you can lose your salvation.
There are some that believe that Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)

[Fat]

Sorry to be dumb here, :sigh: for many many weeks I have read OSAS and still can't work out what it is, is it a religion yes you must choose a side in this fight or another thread spot in CF? (CF = Christian Forum) ;)

James

Yes it is a religion and it requires our participation once every seven days.



:help: