Finally!

[Fish and Bread]

Well, after a year of attending an Episcopal parish and a lot more time than that spent considering Episcopalianism, I now finally own my first Book of Common Prayer. It's late in coming, I know, but I finally have one, and I am very excited. :-)

So, we're on year 1 of the daily office and year A of the lectionary, right? And today is the fourth Thursday of Easter? Anything else I should know to get the most use out of my BCP?

I haven't had too much time flip through it, but I have three initial observations of things I didn't notice in various church classes or while flipping through one of the BCPs in the pews on various Sundays: 1. I wish my parish would occasionally use Eucharist Prayer C, which looks kind of interesting, if probably a bit too contemporary for more frequent use 2. The marriage service in the BCP is far and away the most beautiful marriage liturgy I've ever read, and 3. This book is awesome (Alright, I already knew that one, just thought it was worth repeating). :-)

John

[gtsecc]

Be sure to flip to the back and rip out the 39 article from the "Historical Documents of the Church " ;)

[PaladinValer]

Just flip through it a few times. Read some of the liturgies (even if they are the words for the clergy to say!), pray some of the prayers, recite some of the psalms...let it speak to you.

I am overjoyed you are enjoying your new BCP so much! I sincerely hope it will be a source of beauty, grace, and inspiration for you for all the rest of your life. :)

[SirTimothy]

I cheated. I nicked one from our church... with the permission of the chaplain, of course! The diocese gave us a whole bunch of '79 BCPs, but we're all using Common Worship now anyhow--we think they just didn't have anywhere to put 'em!

Timothy

[AveMaria]

Congratulations!

I splurged and bought myself the combined BCP/Hymnal for Christmas. Then spent the extra bit and had my name embossed on the cover (which I rationalized as being for anti-theft!).

Best investment I've made in ages!

[RobNJ]

Check out the Compline!!!:amen:

[Cjwinnit]

Be sure to flip to the back and rip out the 39 article from the "Historical Documents of the Church " ;)

Burn the pages, collect the ashes and throw them into the sea.

[Fish and Bread]

Just flip through it a few times. Read some of the liturgies (even if they are the words for the clergy to say!), pray some of the prayers, recite some of the psalms...let it speak to you.

I'm wondering if I'm missing something with morning and evening prayer. I know it is often practiced as an individual devotion, but the language is geared towards a group of people. Do I just read it as is to myself or am I supposed to be making some sort of modifications?

I am overjoyed you are enjoying your new BCP so much! I sincerely hope it will be a source of beauty, grace, and inspiration for you

Thank you.

for all the rest of your life. :)

Or at least until the next prayer book revision. ;-)

John

[Fish and Bread]

Check out the Compline!!!:amen:

We did that together at my confirmation class last night. It is a really beautiful office.

John

[Fish and Bread]

Burn the pages, collect the ashes and throw them into the sea.

So I take it you're not a fan of the 39 articles? ;-)

John

[TomUK]

I really do need to pick a copy of the American BofCP. Aside from the language what are the main differences between the 1979 prayer book and the 1662 one that we use.

(note that my comments on the other thread where more about the use of the 1662 prayer book in England and the effect that using that version had on our theology etc :) )

[Albion]

I really do need to pick a copy of the American BofCP. Aside from the language what are the main differences between the 1979 prayer book and the 1662 one that we use.

(note that my comments on the other thread where more about the use of the 1662 prayer book in England and the effect that using that version had on our theology etc :) )

The 1928 is considered somewhat more Catholic than the 1662 in some ways, although the average reader probably doesn't notice much. It's primarily in some additional prayers around the consecration and distribution. The 1979 book is more of a departure, however, with contemporary language liturgies and a selection of alternative prayers for various parts of the liturgy--and two separate versions of the liturgy itself. Critics consider it to have de-emphasized the atonement aspect of the faith. BUT, there are many places online where the whole thing is printed out for you for every one of these editions, which should make for easy and inexpensive comparisons.

[TomUK]

The 1928 is considered somewhat more Catholic than the 1662 in some ways, although the average reader probably doesn't notice much. It's primarily in some additional prayers around the consecration and distribution.
from what i recall that is why Parliament rejected the 1928 revision in the UK.

[svdbygrace]

I was also considering purchasing a BCP... which version does everyone recommend? I have saw 1928, and 1979... the church uses 1979... but for private devotions... which do you recommend?

Christ's Peace :)

[PaladinValer]

1979 has two Rites; Rite I is basically the 1928.

[Albion]

I was also considering purchasing a BCP... which version does everyone recommend? I have saw 1928, and 1979... the church uses 1979... but for private devotions... which do you recommend?

Christ's Peace :)

Anything else is an improvement. Seriously. Even advocates of the 1979 have argued that it is an improvement upon the 1928 because 1) it has more alternative settings for public worship, 2) it is more helpful in its instructions to the ministers as how to go about things, and 3) it gives more space to the historic documents of the church, in other words, reference material.

But you asked about private devotions, and the 1928 has it all over 1979 in that way, being arranged in a way that is easier to follow and far more beautiful in its wording than 1979. For private use, I'd say 1928 or the (UK) 1662.

[Inside Edge]

On a side note:

What's the deal with the Book of Alternative Services? How does that figure into all of this? I ask because I have never seen a BCP in any of the Anglican Churches I've attended, so I must be missing something. And just 2 Sundays ago our rector went on and on about the BCP and Anglican tradition, and yet...can't find it in the pews. Granted, I had a 4-month old little girl to placate and was pacing around the back, so I might have missed something...

...queue pmcleanj... :)

[Fish and Bread]

-Removed by the poster-

[Colabomb]

I've got a paperback 1928 from an old Catholic Group.

[pmcleanj]

On a side note:

What's the deal with the Book of Alternative Services? How does that figure into all of this? I ask because I have never seen a BCP in any of the Anglican Churches I've attended, so I must be missing something. And just 2 Sundays ago our rector went on and on about the BCP and Anglican tradition, and yet...can't find it in the pews. Granted, I had a 4-month old little girl to placate and was pacing around the back, so I might have missed something...

...queue pmcleanj... :)
Visit more churches.

It's fairly unusual that there are no BCP's in the church. BCP is usually used for the 8:00 a.m. service. When the BAS was fairly new, it was normal for churches that had two morning services to have BCP for one service, and BAS for the other -- and that's still done fairly commonly. Churches that had only one service typically alternated between BCP and BAS week by week. A whole generation has grown up since then, and this alternation (which is confusing and bad paedagogy) seems to have largely died out, with the BCP losing place to the BAS.

The BAS eucharist is very similar to the BCP but with the thee's and thou's changed to you. The greeting "and with thy spirit" is changed to "and also with you", which is gradually going out of favour with liturgists as an appropriate translation. There's three readings specified instead of two, the prayer of humble access is gone and the rubrics around the peace suggest the practice of hand-shaking with your neighbours in the pew; instead of one Eucharistic prayer there's a selection of six (none of which are precisely a modernization of the BCP Prayer); the Prayers of the People are left unspecified; and the prayers after communion are changed and offer a range of choice.

There's also a version in the BAS "in the language of ...1962" which differs slightly from the BCP: The Prayer of humble access has been "sanitized" to remove the suggestion that our bodies are inherently sinful ("our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his everlasting blood" has been simply excised, and the grammar in the Lord's Prayer vulgarized from "we forgive them that" to "we forgive those who". Since most of the "traditional language" folk haven't really memorized the old service, and don't get the theological (or grammatical) impact of these small changes, some churches use this version instead of the BCP simply to get the excess books out of the pews and make room for new hymnals.

But I'm betting that there's a bookshelf at the back of the nave, where the prayerbooks are stored for the sake of the 8a.m. crowd and the occasional bride who insists on a traditional service. And (me being a huge fan of the daily office) it's a resource that shouldn't be lost just in case some clerics actually decide to follow the rubics regarding saying Morning and Evening Prayer "in the accustomed place of the Church".

[Inside Edge]

Ok, well all that makes much sense. Thank you!
Visit more churches.
6 in my Diocese and counting...2 or 3 have an 8am service, but I've only ever been to th 10am. My current church only has a 10am service. And again, never seen a BCP in any of them, and I've been looking.

greeting "and with thy spirit" is changed to "and also with you", which is gradually going out of favour with liturgists as an appropriate translation.
Ah-ha! This sounds very familiar...and if it's going out of style, then I'm betting my diocese will be the last one to let go of it.

So basically, the BAS is a modern Canadian alternative to the BCP...very similar in most respects, but different enough in certain areas to "not qualify" as a new revision. Is that a fair assessment?

Because here's the thing...I'd rather have the book my church/diocese uses for regular services than a BCP, and it sounds like I'd be getting most of the BCP in the BAS. Plus, we have a very old BCP handed down to us from my wife's grandmother, from England. I flipped through it the other day, and it seems pretty foreign to me.

[pmcleanj]

6 in my Diocese and counting...And again, never seen a BCP.
Well, I am definately not a member of the Prayer Book Society, trust me. But nonetheless I'm shocked and a little saddened. We still have them in most parishes here -- not the suburbs in the very new suburbs though; and the same in the churches I've visited in B.C.

I suspect what I'm seeing is, that the parishes that already had BCP's still have them and occasionally use them, and the parishes that didn't exist until after the BAS were fiscally constrained to choose between one or the other and chose BAS. But it does make for a very cluttered pew-back book-rack, especially now that Common Praise is out.
So basically, the BAS is a modern Canadian alternative to the BCP...very similar in most respects, but different enough in certain areas to "not qualify" as a new revision. Close enough representation of the state of affairs for most day-to-day parish purposes.

The 1662 BCP that you got from your wife's grandmother does have some differences from the Canadian versions of 1917 and 1962, and the typesetting is a whole lot easier to read in the 1962. I'm used to both -- I converted in the 1970's when liturgical reform was in its heydey; and the BCP was the firm foundation on which the various reforms were founded. And some of the early liturgies that didn't make it into the BAS were very well-crafted and pleasing indeed. My favourite is still "A New Eucharistic Rite for the People of God"; from which I've carefully preserved a hand-written copy of the beautiful Prayers of the People.

The BAS doesn't really replace the BCP for me. In fact, I have both right here beside the computer (I'll bet that doesn't surprise you much). The BAS has the readings and propers for the three-year lectionary cycle in it, which the BCP doesn't have since the 1662 lectionary is only a one-year cycle, and comprises nothing but collectof the day, epistle, and gospel -- no proper old testament reading or prayers after communion/offertory prayer/prayer after communion. But the BCP has the catechism, and the creed of Saint Athanasius, as well as a couple of occasional services that aren't in the BAS; and the BCP has the Articles and Prefaces -- which are relevant as propositions to be considered deeply and prayerfully, whether you decide for (as is perfectly legitimate despite the fact that they are not dogma) or against (which is also legitimate since they never carried the force of dogma) any one or the other of them.

Also, the Morning and Evening Prayer services in the BAS are very highly truncated and the pastoral offices are quite different in the BAS from the BCP, and the "form in the language of 1962" is not provided for any of these services, but only for the Lord's Supper -- but the BAS forms for some of them are arguably preferable to the BCP.

[SirTimothy]

Is the BAS the same as the 1980 Alternative Service Book that we had in the UK? Very similar language to the American '79 BCP. That kind of replaced the 1662 prayerbook in many in the UK, then they came our with Common Worship, which is a smorgasboard(sp?) of the American '79 BCP (the form of the confession for the Eucharist amongst other things) the ASB and the 1662 prayerbook... We're not allowed to use the ASB here any more, much to the annoyance of our parish, since we have nice copies of the ASB, but only printouts of the Common Worship Eucharist...

Timothy

[pmcleanj]

Is the BAS the same as the 1980 Alternative Service Book that we had in the UK?

I'd presume so. BAS was published in 1985, after two series of pamplet-style liturgical books published in 1974 and 1979. I memorize texts easily so I just "know" most of the congregation's responses from BAS, and I do end up saying the wrong thing by mistake when I worship in the States, so obviously there are some differences but they seem to be minor.

Have you petitioned your Bishop for permission to go on using the ASB? "Not allowed to" just sounds so, well unAnglican.

[SirTimothy]

I haven't yet--I've only been a full-time Anglican for 2 or so weeks. I think it was a Synod decision, actually... the ASB isn't authorized for use any more by the AC, or sommat like that... we /could/ use the '79 BCP (and I plan to suggest it's usage it for Evening Prayer at some stage, just to shake people out of their rut...) But the ASB has been superseded by CW, or something like that--which is a shame, since we don't have CW versions with the Psalter or anything.

Timothy

[Albion]

I haven't yet--I've only been a full-time Anglican for 2 or so weeks. I think it was a Synod decision, actually... the ASB isn't authorized for use any more by the AC, or sommat like that... we /could/ use the '79 BCP (and I plan to suggest it's usage it for Evening Prayer at some stage, just to shake people out of their rut...) But the ASB has been superseded by CW, or something like that--which is a shame, since we don't have CW versions with the Psalter or anything.

Timothy

You know, I had no idea that in various parts of the Anglican Communion these days, there essentially is no such thing as "Common Prayer." What a shame.

[PaladinValer]

Despite the fact that there are two Eucharist forms in Rite I?

I wouldn't call that "Common" either.

Unless of course, by "Common" doesn't equate to a single liturgy, but everyone with one voice. This is what Common Prayer is.

[gitlance]

Or otherwise known as the Book of Communal Prayer...

[Colabomb]

I was also considering purchasing a BCP... which version does everyone recommend? I have saw 1928, and 1979... the church uses 1979... but for private devotions... which do you recommend?

Christ's Peace :)
I recommend the 1928 for any purpose whatsoever.

[gtsecc]

I like 1979

[Slammer]

You're sure it's not 1980?

[svdbygrace]

Hi Everyone!
I borrowed a copy of the 1928 BCP from the public library today... I love it.... I am going to have to get my very own copy of both the 1928 and 1979... They are both sooo...amazing! :thumbsup:

God Bless you all! :prayer:

[PaladinValer]

If you get the 1979, you are essentially getting both, as Rite I in the 1979 is basically the 1928. :)

[gtsecc]

You can look at most BCPs here (http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/).