All true Orthodox ...

[Oblio]

From Bill + Annie (http://www.theoniondome.com/disgrunts.php)

February 18 and 22, 2005 — Both the Onion Dome and the Imperial Press are reprehensible organizations. The Onion Dome shamelessly derides the Orthodox faith, though its writers claim to be truly devout Orthodox Christians. Do you have no loyalty to your church? And the Imperial Press,which chronicles an “Orthodox,” family, is just as bad for recommending Onion Dome on its site. You are betraying the ideals that you purport to cherish. And, it must be said, the heated argument that has come out from all of this is quite typical of the arrogance displayed so prominently by Onion Dome and Imperial Press reporters. All true Orthodox believers will boycott both theoniondome.com and imperialpress.blogspot.com. By continuing commentary on these sites, you feed the fires of heresy.

Merely the fact that you can even have believed we were joking completely verifies everything that we have said. We stand by our views. We will continue to “celebrate Christmas in January,” and all other such things, thank you very much.

[Konstantinos]

These two sites disgust me!!!!

[Oblio]

These two sites disgust me!!!!

Is Outrage !

[Konstantinos]

They are no more orthodox then Martin Luther was Catholic!

[Oblio]

They are no more orthodox then Martin Luther was Catholic!


I don't know about the bloggers, but I assure you that Rdr. Alex and the other intrepid reporters of The Dome are Orthodox.

[Julio]

Is Outrage !

You know, I used to be an avid reader of The Onion Dome when it first came out. I started reading less and less as time went by, and in fact, the only Onion Dome articles I have read recently have been those posted here. A lot of their articles (especially the earlier ones) are very funny, but a lot of it also trivializes the sacred. It's a difficult line to walk, the one between satire and irreverence, and The Onion Dome is not always successful. It certainly lacks the "sobriety of soul" for which we ask in the Divine Liturgy.

(None of the above, of course, applies to my adored Fr Vasily Vasileivich, nor to his son, Orthodox rap star Bug Vasileivichvich. ;) )

[Rilian]

I don't read it anymore.

[Vasya Davidovich]

You know, I used to be an avid reader of The Onion Dome when it first came out. I started reading less and less as time went by, and in fact, the only Onion Dome articles I have read recently have been those posted here. A lot of their articles (especially the earlier ones) are very funny, but a lot of it also trivializes the sacred. It's a difficult line to walk, the one between satire and irreverence, and The Onion Dome is not always successful. It certainly lacks the "sobriety of soul" for which we ask in the Divine Liturgy.
Ditto.

And I agree.

[Oblio]

You know, I used to be an avid reader of The Onion Dome when it first came out. I started reading less and less as time went by, and in fact, the only Onion Dome articles I have read recently have been those posted here. A lot of their articles (especially the earlier ones) are very funny, but a lot of it also trivializes the sacred. It's a difficult line to walk, the one between satire and irreverence, and The Onion Dome is not always successful. It certainly lacks the "sobriety of soul" for which we ask in the Divine Liturgy.


I agree, in fact there was a recent reference here that sent me over there. There hadn't been a update to disgrunts for several years I found the latest reponse harsh and typical of the stodgy American Russophiles (which I assume they are as they were offended by what appeared to be a satire on the Imperial Empire in the blogspot)

[Orthosdoxa]

I thought it was funny the first time I read an article. It just hasn't appealed to me since. I guess I'm so jaded by TV that the only thing that ever makes me laugh is the sight of naked Homer running through his house, yelling, "D'OH!"

[Eusebios]

The Onion Dome has lost some of it's attraction for me as well. I do however understand "the point". The feedback is indeed a bit harsh, and to me borders on being hypocritical.
In Xp,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[MariaRegina]

The Onion Dome has lost some of it's attraction for me as well. I do however understand "the point". The feedback is indeed a bit harsh, and to me borders on being hypocritical.
In Xp,
Eusebios.
:bow:

I even question the validity of those feedback posts. Are they real? What is real at that site? This is the problem with fiction.

The lack of sobriety at the Onion Dome does bother me also.

[Matrona]

I don't go to Onion Dome as much either--and I too have been shocked by some of the things on there--but it is pretty funny when he sticks to things like "Catechumen Departs" and "Greek scientists discover ninth tone", and I about died laughing at the "Slobbovian Orthodox Church" parody because it was absolutely dead-on.

Is it just me, or do some Russophile Orthodox have this thing with "All true Orthodox X, Y, Z"? I bought a pamphlet "Missionary Conversations with Protestant Sectarians" put out by Jordanville, and the foreward said something to the effect of "All Orthodox who care about their children and families will read the publication The Orthodox Word..."

And don't even get me started on an OCA parish which shall not be named. You'd think they were straight outta nineteenth century Russia--food, culture, etc., not just church--if it weren't for their southern accents.

[Padraig]

I guess I'm so jaded by TV that the only thing that ever makes me laugh is the sight of naked Homer running through his house, yelling, "D'OH!"

Ahh, good times.;)

[Maximus]

I don't like the Onion Dome. It can be funny, but funny is not always a good thing.

It's easy to find things to mock.

[Michael the Iconographer]

They are no more orthodox then Martin Luther was Catholic!

How can you say such nonsense? If you can't laugh at the funnier non-faith aspects of Orthodoxy perhaps you need to consider why it is you are Orthodox in the first place? You can make a religion out of anyting, including 19th C Russia! Was it 19th C Russian oil painted icons in 15th C Novgorod??? :D

[Konstantinos]

Iam sorry If I offended you! I dont see how it is funny to mock my religion!!!!!! Iam offended about you saying Im not Orthodox and am Now leaving this site. Making fun of Faith is not My Opinion of Funny!!

[Michael the Iconographer]

Iam sorry If I offended you! I dont see how it is funny to mock my religion!!!!!! Iam offended about you saying Im not Orthodox and am Now leaving this site. Making fun of Faith is not My Opinion of Funny!!

Where did I ever say you are not Orthodox? Forgive me, but there are some of the cultural things that I see going on which are totally accidental to Orthodoxy and have nothing to do with the Faith which are just down right hilarious at times! I am not a 19th C Russian, I am a 21st C American who is Orthodox.

[Konstantinos]

Iam a 21st Century Greek living In Istanbul. My Forefathers Died to Defend my Faith and Iam still persecuted to this very day. That is why I feel the way. sorry I meant "perhaps you need to consider why you are Orthodox in the first place"

[Orthosdoxa]

Konstantinos, don't go. Your English is quite good, but sometimes nuances can get lost in translation. I don't think Michael meant it as harsh as it sounded.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Konstantinos, don't go. Your English is quite good, but sometimes nuances can get lost in translation. I don't think Michael meant it as harsh as it sounded.

I did not mean it harshly, I just meant that Orthodoxy is not about culture and thus if you can't see the humor in some of the cultural things which are ascribed to Orthodoxy but aren't actually part of the faith, then you need to look at what your faith rests on. I am sorry if Konstantinos took it to mean I was questioning his Orthodoxy, which I am not.

[Orthosdoxa]

I did not mean it harshly, I just meant that Orthodoxy is not about culture and thus if you can't see the humor in some of the cultural things which are ascribed to Orthodoxy but aren't actually part of the faith, then you need to look at what your faith rests on. I am sorry if Konstantinos took it to mean I was questioning his Orthodoxy, which I am not.

I know. :) Hence my suggestion that nuances can get lost in translation. :)

[Julio]

Is it just me, or do some Russophile Orthodox have this thing with "All true Orthodox X, Y, Z"? I bought a pamphlet "Missionary Conversations with Protestant Sectarians" put out by Jordanville, and the foreward said something to the effect of "All Orthodox who care about their children and families will read the publication The Orthodox Word..."

And don't even get me started on an OCA parish which shall not be named. You'd think they were straight outta nineteenth century Russia--food, culture, etc., not just church--if it weren't for their southern accents.

The words in question read:

"For the parent who really does care about his children and their salvation, the three publications, The Orthodox Word, Orthodox Life, and the Orthodox Christian Witness, should be coming into your home and read attentively by both parents and children. There are also a number of helpful publications available from the Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville, N. Y. and the Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Brookline, Mass."

This is because the few resources listed were all in English, and at the time of this booklet's publication (1973), those were about the only Orthodox materials published in that language. Parents who cared about the salvation of their children would certainly make sure that they had access to Orthodox Christian materials in a language they could understand. Don't we all agree?

Also, as US culture is not precisely Orthodox, it would not hurt converts to learn the ways in which Orthodox Christians from traditionally Orthodox cultures live out their faith, inasmuch as many of their traditions and customs emerge from an Orthodox phronima. By learning from them how to be Orthodox, perhaps we could start, when we ourselves are mature, to transform our own customs. I do agree, however, that it is hopelessly ridiculuous for Billy Bob Hick from Mudbucket, TN, to walk around in cossack attire.

[Michael the Iconographer]

In time a distinctively American Orthodox culture will need to form in America. This is the only logical way for Orthodoxy to continue on this continent. As we move further and further away from being Greek and Russian and begin to accept that there are more convert Orthodox on this continent than ones who come directly from the old countries the Orthodox in this country will slowly form our own Orthodox Culture. It will be informed by the cultures and traditions of the old countries but at the same time it will be thoroughly American and much easier for converts to swallow than a foreign culture which they have no knowledge of. Please don't take this as Greek or Russian bashing, it is not, it is merely accepting what must occur in the future with Orthodoxy on this continent. And in the end, when that happens, we will be ready to have Constantinople recognize one American Orthodox Church with our own Patriarch of the Western Hemisphere! I pray I live to see that day!

[Julio]

May God grant it, Michael! And may He also grant us wisdom to not to try to rush the process ourselves; this could be disastrous.

[Michael the Iconographer]

May God grant it, Michael! And may He also grant us wisdom to not to try to rush the process ourselves; this could be disastrous.

Exactly! It has to develop slowly on it's own. It will involve taking some of the aspects of the Greek, Arabic and Slavic cultures while at the same time adding those parts of American culture which are growing out of the growing Orthodox church in America (I am not referring to the OCA). The wonderful thing about this will be that once it occurs there will no longer be the need to have 5 canonical Bishops in Pittsburgh but rather they can be spread out to have one in Cleveland, one in Toledo, one in Youngstown, one in Erie, etc. so that the Bishops are more able to be the true servants of the people that God meant them to be! We can do our own part to encourage this growth toward an American Orthodox Church by helping to promote unity of the faith among the various churches in our respective areas. Some, like me, have many, many Orthodox churches in their areas, while others have only a few. But we can all do our part to help this slow process become a reality! It may take 100-200 years to do, but it has to start somewhere!

[Fotina]

In time a distinctively American Orthodox culture will need to form in America. This is the only logical way for Orthodoxy to continue on this continent. As we move further and further away from being Greek and Russian and begin to accept that there are more convert Orthodox on this continent than ones who come directly from the old countries the Orthodox in this country will slowly form our own Orthodox Culture. It will be informed by the cultures and traditions of the old countries but at the same time it will be thoroughly American and much easier for converts to swallow than a foreign culture which they have no knowledge of. Please don't take this as Greek or Russian bashing, it is not, it is merely accepting what must occur in the future with Orthodoxy on this continent. And in the end, when that happens, we will be ready to have Constantinople recognize one American Orthodox Church with our own Patriarch of the Western Hemisphere! I pray I live to see that day!

When Orthodox in America can say (like every Orthodox in the old countries), that their forefathers died defending the Faith, then American Orthodoxy will be thoroughly Orthodox. It might be hard to swallow.

[Rilian]

When Orthodox in America can say (like every Orthodox in the old countries), that their forefathers died defending the Faith, then American Orthodoxy will be thoroughly Orthodox. It might be hard to swallow.

I agree, we have a ways to go. We do have one though, St. Peter the Aleut died defending his faith.

[Julio]

I agree, we have a ways to go. We do have one though, St. Peter the Aleut died defending his faith.

I think the (in)operative word there is one. Meanwhile, every Serb has one or more family members who died, or were tortured/imprisioned, under the Croatian Ustashi persecution, or in Kosovo.

Also, a true sign of maturity of the Church in the Americas will be when we start reaping the harvest of native saints -- other than St Peter, the firtfruits. So far, all the other saints who have shone forth in the Americas have come from somewhere else, where in fact, they had the benefit of being immersed from childhood in the life of the Church, and in the traditions and customs that make up an Orthodox culture. The thought of this should give us pause. A long one.

[Maximus]

Billy Bob Hick from Mudbucket, TN

Julio! You promised not to reveal my true identity!

I'm flabbergasted! ^_^

[Fotina]

I agree, we have a ways to go. We do have one though, St. Peter the Aleut died defending his faith.

It's fitting that an indigenous native is the first martyr of the America's.

Holy Martyr Peter, pray for us. :crosseo:

[Matrona]

I agree, we have a ways to go. We do have one though, St. Peter the Aleut died defending his faith.
You forgot St. Juvenaly, the martyred priest.

[Maximus]

I hope our brother Konstantinos will stick around.

I appreciate his posts.

His perspective as an Orthodox Christian on the front lines, as it were, is something we really need here.

In Fat City.

[Matrona]

Anyway, I have little doubt that persecution is coming for us Orthodox, with the way the world is going. We had best prepare ourselves to suffer and perhaps even die for our beliefs.

[Rilian]

I hope our brother Konstantinos will stick around.

I appreciate his posts.

His perspective as an Orthodox Christian on the front lines, as it were, is something we really need here.

In Fat City.

I agree.

[Matrona]

I hope our brother Konstantinos will stick around.

I appreciate his posts.

His perspective as an Orthodox Christian on the front lines, as it were, is something we really need here.

In Fat City.
I agree with you and Rilian. Konstantinos, you are very much appreciated here! :)

[Konstantinos]

Thank you all! I will not leave (please dont take me as arrogant Iam not or a "sissy" I believe its called) I will not leave but I will post Carefully from now on. Your Brother in the Lord Konstantinos.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I did not mean to give the impression that Konstantinos is not appreciated here, but I did not understand how he can make such a bold statement as The Onion Dome is not Orthodox, simply because it points out some of the peculiarities of Russian Orthodox Culture?

[Konstantinos]

Culture and Church Teachings go hand and hand! Making fun of one or the other is making fun of both.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Culture and Church Teachings go hand and hand! Making fun of one or the other is making fun of both.

No, that is not true. I am Orthodox, I am not Russian. The United States is full of converts to Orthodoxy who know nothing or very little of the cultures of Greece, the Arab countries or the Slavic lands, and yet we are just as Orthodox as anyone from those countries. There is a difference between Doctrine and culture, and while it is not good to make fun of doctrine there is nothing wrong with pointing out the peculiarities of culture.

[Vasya Davidovich]

I think the (in)operative word there is one. Meanwhile, every Serb has one or more family members who died, or were tortured/imprisioned, under the Croatian Ustashi persecution, or in Kosovo.

Also, a true sign of maturity of the Church in the Americas will be when we start reaping the harvest of native saints -- other than St Peter, the firtfruits. So far, all the other saints who have shone forth in the Americas have come from somewhere else, where in fact, they had the benefit of being immersed from childhood in the life of the Church, and in the traditions and customs that make up an Orthodox culture. The thought of this should give us pause. A long one.
Fantastic post, Julio. Much appreciated.

We cannot let Orthodox traditions and customs die ... even if we are in anticipation of American ones to replace them. We have to cling with both hands to the deposit of Faith that has been granted us in and by the mercy of God.

American customs will grow over time. It is not our role as recipients of this grace to make it up as we go along (or, to treat it with anything less than reverence).

This is why I cling to the traditions that I have been taught. And this is why I find Onion Dome offensive.

Vasya.

PS. I enjoy Konstantinos' presence here also. And I feel that he has a point in that there is a fine line between mocking something cultural and something Holy, particularly in nations that have been deeply saturated in Orthodoxy.

And when we do see something that is cultural - clearly nonChristian and unOrthodox? I don't think our first response should be to laugh, but to weep.
V.

[MariaRegina]

Fantastic post, Julio. Much appreciated.

We cannot let Orthodox traditions and customs die ... even if we are in anticipation of American ones to replace them. We have to cling with both hands to the deposit of Faith that has been granted us in and by the mercy of God.

American customs will grow over time. It is not our role as recipients of this grace to make it up as we go along (or, to treat it with anything less than reverence).

This is why I cling to the traditions that I have been taught. And this is why I find Onion Dome offensive.

Vasya.

PS. I enjoy Konstantinos' presence here also. And I feel that he has a point in that there is a fine line between mocking something cultural and something Holy, particularly in nations that have been deeply saturated in Orthodoxy.

And when we do see something that is cultural - clearly nonChristian and unOrthodox? I don't think our first response should be to laugh, but to weep.
V.


I wanted to rep you, Vasya, but I have to wait according to the box that just popped up. Great post.

[Julio]

Julio! You promised not to reveal my true identity!

I'm flabbergasted! ^_^

Well, um, I will say in your defense that, being married to a Russian, you do have a right to wear a cossack uniform! :sorry:

[MariaRegina]

Well, um, I will say in your defense that, being married to a Russian, you do have a right to wear a cossack uniform! :sorry:
:D