Origen

[Matrona]

My professor argues that Origen didn't really believe the kind of universalism anathematized at the fifth ecumenical council.

I say 'he did so!', or else he would be St. Origen.

Who's right?

[Padraig]

My professor argues that Origen didn't really believe the kind of universalism anathematized at the fifth ecumenical council.

I say 'he did so!', or else he would be St. Origen.

Who's right?

It wasn't Origen's belief in universal salvation as it is believed by some of the Fathers that got him condemned per se. It was his entire soteriology. This includes preexistance of souls, precosmic fall, and a return to God as part of God. Read his On First Principles to get a better understanding of where he is coming from.

Having said all that, he is still one of the most influential biblical exegetes in the history of the Church. His influence on later Fathers is evident in their interpretation of Scripture. He made mistakes and held incorrect beliefs. He was anathematized by the Church, nevertheless his influence has not diminished. Weird situation but there you go.

There is a modern sympathetic view of Origen that says that we need to separate Origen from Origenism. Just as there is a difference between St Cyril of Alexandria and his followers (Cyrillians) who were condemned. We don't know everything and to what depth he held any of these beliefs as the vast majority of his writings were burned when he was condemned. There are also those who say he had dementia (alzheimer's or something like it) when he started writing all of this stuff. This view makes sense as much of his commentaries are so wonderfully Orthodox.

All those seeking a better understanding of Scripture can trust his commentaries, but outside of that be wary.

Padraig

[Matrona]

Thanks Padraig!

[Lotar]

Dude had to be a little crazy to make a eunuch out of himself.

[Matrona]

The professor told us about a piece of graffiti he heard about at Harvard... I can't remember how it goes but it suggests that Origen castrated himself in order to test the idea of apokatastasis... :D

[Vasya Davidovich]

Apokatastasis. Explain?

[Matrona]

Apokatastasis. Explain?

The concept of creation eventually reverting to its original state. :) Usually applied to the belief that all creation can/will eventually be restored to the supralapsarian condition and the question of whether or not hell is eternal. The good doctor alleges that Origen's apokatastasis meant that all creation can be restored, and that only the apokatastasis that says all creation WILL be restored was condemned at Constantinople II.

[Vasya Davidovich]

Ah.

lol

Good one. :)

[Vasya Davidovich]

That was one of those jokes that require a bit of specialized knowledge.



A friend of mine was telling me the other day about a pope who had sold the papacy, then killed the new "pope", and when he had reinherited(?) it promptly resold it.

Small pause.

"Ah," said I, "That's called putting the simony back in the petrine office."