The Bible

[Vasya Davidovich]

What is the most accurate English version of the NT? Of the OT?

[Padraig]

Well, I can speak for the seminary communities. Both St Tikhon's and St Vlad's prefer the RSV with Apocrypha. It's the required version of our Scripture classes, though I think there are some caviats even on it. We'll see how good the OSB Old Testament is when it comes out. Personally I like the Douay-Rheims (sp?), but that's just personal preference.


Padraig

[Maximus]

I like the Douay Rheims and the NKJV.

I don't care for the RSV. There are problems with it. I will post them later when I get more time.

[Vasya Davidovich]

Why the popularity of the Douay-Rheims?

[gorion]

As I recall the NASB is considered the most accurate word for word translation.

[Padraig]

Why the popularity of the Douay-Rheims?

If I understand it's history correctly, the DR was introduced as a alternative to the KJV. The KJV is a protestant bible pure and simple. And some of the emphasis in certain phrases support the protestant's "protest." The DR is the english translation of the Latin Vulgate of St Jerome, as such, it isn't really encumbered with the baggage of being a protestant bible. It retains the same style of english, though to me a little better, without the baggage. It's just pretty darn expensive as bibles go.

Padraig

[Monica, child of God]

I'm still using the NIV :sorry: It's all I've ever known. I want to buy an OSB but if the version with the OT is coming out soon I'd rather not shell out $50 bucks for the NT/Psalms version now.

Monica

[Rilian]

What is the most accurate English version of the NT? Of the OT?

Many still have a strong preference for the KJV, at least for the New Testament, because of its reliance on the Byzantine text type. The Old Testament of course is based on the medieval Hebrew manuscripts the translators at the time had access to. We know of course there are numerous translation and text quality issues with both the NT and OT in the KJV.

I don't think the Brenton Septuagint is too widely used. I believe it suffers from the many of the same translation pitfalls as the KJV.

I have never read the NASB, though I have heard it is quite literal. I would say there are some potential down sides to it though since the translation committee was completely composed of evangelical Protestants. One is that it may have a translational bias in it (again I haven't read it), the other is that it of course does not contain the books of the Anaginoskomena. Again, the OT would be based on the Masoretic text and not the Septuagint.

The RSV has its up and downs which you can argue the merits for and against of. The NT is the Nestle-Aland compilation, otherwise known as the critical text. Some would rule it out just based on that. The Old Testament, aside from the Anaginoskomena, is again based on the Masoretic Text which is of course problematic because of such things as the handling of Psalm 51. The Old Testament in the RSV was also translated from an academic and not a theological viewpoint. This can be good or bad from your view point, typically they chose to remain quite literal with how the Hebrew was handled. Isaiah 7:14 is one verse that is often pointed to as an example. One main upside to the RSV is that in the later additions they included all of the books of the Anaginoskomena.

I’ve heard good things about the Douay-Rheims, though I have not read much of it myself. The Psalms seem quite close to the Septuagint, which I think would be one if its better aspects. I would assume since it is based on the Vulgate, the OT is itself based on the Hebrew sources Jerome had access to which predate the texts used in Protestant bibles.

I would avoid the NIV.

[Monica, child of God]

I would avoid the NIV.

He, he (nervous laugh), I know... :sorry:

Monica

[Oblio]

BTW, the D-R is available for e-Sword :)

(51:4) Wash me yet more from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. (51:5) For I know my iniquity, and my sin is always before me. (51:6) To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words, and mayst overcome when thou art judged. (51:7) For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me. (51:8) For behold thou hast loved truth: the uncertain and hidden things of thy wisdom thou hast made manifest to me. (51:9) Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed: thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow. (51:10) To my hearing thou shalt give joy and gladness: and the bones that have been humbled shall rejoice. (51:11) Turn away thy face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities. (51:12) Create a clean heart in me, O God: and renew a right spirit within my bowels. (51:13) Cast me not away from thy face; and take not thy holy spirit from me. (51:14) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and strengthen me with a perfect spirit. (51:15) I will teach the unjust thy ways: and the wicked shall be converted to thee. (51:16) Deliver me from blood, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall extol thy justice. (51:17) O Lord, thou wilt open my lips: and my mouth shall declare thy praise. (51:18) For if thou hadst desired sacrifice, I would indeed have given it: with burnt offerings thou wilt not be delighted. (51:19) A sacrifice to God is an afflicted spirit: a contrite and humbled heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (51:20) Deal favourably, O Lord, in thy good will with Sion; that the walls of Jerusalem may be built up. (51:21) Then shalt thou accept the sacrifice of justice, oblations and whole burnt offerings: then shall they lay calves upon thy altar.
(Psalms 51:2-19 DRB)

[White Rabbit]

I would avoid the NIV.

What's wrong with the NIV? :confused:

[Stefan Davidovich]

The NASB is widely considered the most accurate word for word translation from Greek to English.

It depends of course what you're looking for. If you would prefer a dynamic equivalence (thought for thought) you might not want the NASB. However, if you are looking for word for word translations the NASB is generally considered the best. The NIV and NLT are also highly accurate word for word translations.

I hope that helps.

[Rilian]

The NIV has a pronounced translational bias IMO.

[Theophorus]

If I understand it's history correctly, the DR was introduced as a alternative to the KJV. The KJV is a protestant bible pure and simple. And some of the emphasis in certain phrases support the protestant's "protest." The DR is the english translation of the Latin Vulgate of St Jerome, as such, it isn't really encumbered with the baggage of being a protestant bible. It retains the same style of english, though to me a little better, without the baggage. It's just pretty darn expensive as bibles go.

Padraig

Though the DR was completed before the KJV, is that correct?

I like the KJV and Brenton's LXX, the monastery I attend only sells the NKJV, and Brenton's LXX.

I really want to get a good DR version also.

[Oblio]

Though the DR was completed before the KJV, is that correct?


From the eSword notes on DR:

Douay Old Testament first published by the English College at Douay, A.D. 1609

Rheims New Testament first published by the English College at Rheims, A.D. 1582

The Whole Revised and Diligently Compared with the Latin Vulgate by Bishop Richard Challoner, A.D. 1749-1752

[Theophorus]

From the eSword notes on DR:

Douay Old Testament first published by the English College at Douay, A.D. 1609

Rheims New Testament first published by the English College at Rheims, A.D. 1582

The Whole Revised and Diligently Compared with the Latin Vulgate by Bishop Richard Challoner, A.D. 1749-1752

thx

[Stefan Davidovich]

The NIV has a pronounced translational bias IMO.

can you explain?

[Rilian]

One glaring example is the handling of the Greek word "paradosis". It is translated as "tradition" where traditions are criticized, and "teachings" in places where traditions are being recommended.

The handling of the word "leitourgounton" is another example.

[White Rabbit]

One glaring example is the handling of the Greek word "paradosis". It is translated as "tradition" where traditions are criticized, and "teachings" in places where traditions are being recommended.

The handling of the word "leitourgounton" is another example.

I didn't notice, it has served me well, but is there another translation you would recommend for me?

[Rilian]

I didn't notice, it has served me well, but is there another translation you would recommend for me?

Well, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I do think the NIV's weaknesses far outnumber its strengths.

Personally, I tend to read the Oxford Annotated RSV the most. It was the Bible I started with, so I'm used to it. It also has all of the books of the Anaginoskomena (i.e. the Apocrypha). When reading the poetry books in the OT, then I tend to go back to the KJV.

There are many options out there. The full OSB is supposed to be coming out soon, so you could wait for that. Some people here have mentioned the Douay Rheims. I've seen the Third Millennium Bible advertised recently in our jurisdictional monthly, it's supposed to be an updated KJV. I've also heard the Jerusalem Bible is good.