A question of proper pragmatics in TAW

[MariaRegina]

Dear TAWers:

When I studied semantics and pragmatics in college last year, my speciality was computer forums and the salutations and closings that we use (or the lack thereof).

I am a senior citizen and proud of my gray hair.

In my generation it was consider a matter of politeness for people to address each other in letters and posts as:

Dear John:
Dear Mary:
Dear Mom:
Dear Dad:
Dear Aunt May:
Dear Sir:
Dear Madam:
Dear Reverend Father:
Your Grace .....

You get the point.

We would always close with the proper saluations:

Yours truly,
Sincerely yours,
Respectfully yours,

So I come here and analyze the greetings and the closures AND THE LACK THEREOF.

I have painfully noticed through posts and PMs that some folks here are judging me as being condescending for using these proper greetings. They think that I am putting them down when I am trying to be polite.

So I now wonder ... and I can see a tremendous generational gap.

Then there is the issue about euthanasia and the desire to get rid of the elderly and any responsibility. So am I to be put out of my misery soon?

What will happen to the younger generation? Will they be offered a shot to put them out of their misery as soon as they reach 50?

Just some thoughts.

May Pope Benedict XVI preach respect for life and reach our youth before it is too late.

In Christ,
Elizabeth

[Orthosdoxa]

Oh my. :sick:

I just answer like a conversation, not like everything has to be a letter. If that's how you want to do it, fine. I never noticed. But I am disgusted that you connected our lack of "proper" greetings to euthanasia.

Think about what you say before you make such extreme generalizations. Many TAW'ers spoke up with outrage over the Schiavo case. Yet because there is a "generation gap" (which I never noticed) in our manner of speech, we're looking to off you?

Please, get real. I don't know if Lent is just getting to people or what, but this is nuts.

[Monica, child of God]

Dear Elizabeth,

I think you should open and close your posts as you see fit :) You shouldn't be judged for being a bit more formal than most of the rest of us.

Depending on the character of my posts and the forum I choose to use salutations or leave them off. Some threads have the feel of a conversation or chat rather than a letter, especially when the posts are coming in rapid succession. I do like to close with "Blessings!" as I will now.

Blessings!
Monica

[Philip]

I view these posts as on-going conversations. I don't see the need to prepend and postpend salutations on each post just as I don't see the need to do so in a vocal conversation. Perhaps in the first post of a thread, since it is the beginning of a new conversation, but not in each post.

[Theophorus]

Dearest Aria,

Yes, formal saluatations do not appear to be part of the forum etiquette. I was surprised though that people would interpret your use of them as condescending; but upon further reflection this all makes perfect sense. The yutes of today would only receive letters with salutations from these types of nefarious sources:

As a memo, or some other form of imparting a "rule" in the corporate enviroment.
lawyer
bill collectors
marketing hoax (Dear ____, All you have to do is claim your prize.......)
IRS


As you can see, the use of formal structure in your communications is causing them to uncounsciously associate you with stress and fraud. :D


Most Sincerely,

Vincent

[Matrona]

I am a senior citizen and proud of my gray hair.

You are not a senior citizen! You're younger than my PARENTS!

it was consider a matter of politeness for people to address each other in letters and posts

Being an impetuous young whippersnapper, I doubt highly that there was much in the way of internet posting in your day, lady!

For the purposes of speed, I rarely place a salutation of any degree of formality on my postings. Usually, "Hi Joyce," or "Hello Dr. McSnarkypants" so that it won't be a cold open but respecting the informality of the forum setting.

On the internet, however, I don't feel the need to do any of this on public postings, because as Philip says it is more like an ongoing conversation, not a series of letters, and it isn't your place to judge other people based on how well they follow your directives.

[Konstantinos]

Hmm I dont see how Euthanasia fits in with salutations. I usually end my both with my name. Konstantinos

[MariaRegina]

Thanks, Monica!

Sometimes I just don't know how to answer folks. This is the whole point of this thread. Perhaps someone should start a poll.

I have been trying to blend in.

Anyway I did receive several PMs about this so I am concerned about the proper etiquette of this board and others throughout CF.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Matrona]

There is no need to type a signature on every post. That's what the SIGNATURE FEATURE is for.

[MariaRegina]

You are not a senior citizen! You're younger than my PARENTS!

.

I guess the term "senior citizen" is relative. Some consider people to be seniors at 50, 55, 60, 62, 65, 70. The age seems to be creeping upwards.

I have a son who is older than you are Matrona!

[Lotar]

Dear Elizabeth,

I have been on some forums where proper salutations, titles, and closings were enforced by the rules. But, for the most part, CF is an informal setting and I tend to go with the flow.

I suppose that some people may take your proper ettiquete as insincere, and be insulted, but this would only be because they do not expect someone to retain such usages in the forum.

I personally like your approach, and might do it myself if I wasn't so lazy. ;)

In Christ,
John

[Julio]

I think the answer to the perceived problem lies in undertanding the nature of the medium.

This is a php-based BBS (the successor of telnet-based BBS's) which are made up of threads which, as others have said, are ongoing conversations. Greetings and signatures are not at all expected in these.

In e-mail lists, however (such as Yahoo! Groups and the few remaining listservers), greetings and signatures are not only expected, but in many cases required, as the messages are usually received by subscribers as individual e-mails.

[countrymouse33ad]

Euthenasia?

Lord, have mercy.

I just don't know what else to say.

[MariaRegina]

I just received a notice in the mail about the initiative in California to legalize euthanasia.
Polls indicate that it will probably pass.
Remind me to leave California.
Oregon has a law in favor of euthanasia.

Which states will be next?
Isn't this what Hitler did?

[Lotar]

I just received a notice in the mail about the initiative in California to legalize euthanasia.
Polls indicate that it will probably pass.
Remind me to leave California.
Oregon has a law in favor of euthanasia.

Which states will be next?
Isn't this what Hitler did?

Surprise surprise. We are already forced to pay for laboratory testing on the bodies of murdered infants, so that we can help make sure our actors live longer. So, why not murder the sick and elderly while we're at it? :sigh:

[countrymouse33ad]

In my generation...

Dear Aria,

I suppose the above is the operative phrase. I am of your generation, but I had hardly given it a second thought. I will gladly respond to you, when I do, letter-style if informality offends you. (But I am absent-minded and short on spare time, so please forgive me if I occasionally forget.)

Sincerely,
Dianne

[Monica, child of God]

Surprise surprise. We are already forced to pay for laboratory testing on the bodies of murdered infants, so that we can help make sure our actors live longer. So, why not murder the sick and elderly while we're at it? :sigh:


Wow! that's sayin' something :(

[Alexis OCA]

May Pope Benedict XVI preach respect for life and reach our youth before it is too late.

In Christ,
Elizabeth

Dear Elizabeth,

I say the same prayer every evening that our Patriarchs, Metropolitans, Bishops, and Priests are able to do the same.

Sincerely yours,
Alexis
Soon to be 45 - Lots of Gray Hair:sigh:

[Michael the Iconographer]

Elizabeth my friend, if you really insist on it you may start your posts to me with the following protocol: "YO! G!" (no offense meant to anyone).

[Vasya Davidovich]

Dear Aria:

I hope that this post finds you well and comforted by your earlier respondents.

I wanted to address a couple themes you have raised in the course of this thread. Firstly, I tend to prefer the formal in my discourse as well. It is, after all, the way I was raised. And while my preferences lie with the formal, it does not always seem appropriate to stick to formal usages. As others have already said, the Internet forum is more conducive to (the often dialectal) informal conversational English than to the grammatically- and orthographically-correct English of the standard missive.

That said, I find myself slightly troubled by your other comments. First, and foremost, there seems to be a disconnect between the non-usage of salutations and benedictions and the increasing clamour for euthanasia. Perhaps both speak of disrespect to one's elders... but the degree of disrespect is so vast that I wonder that you connect them at all. Moreover, and here I speak for myself, the fact that you are "elderly" is not readily apparent. In fact, I assumed that you were a slightly formal woman in her mid-thirties. In a word, Aria, you "blend" quite nicely here.

I hope and I trust that our responses to your OP put your mind to rest. I know that I certainly do not mean any disrespect to you or anyone else in failing to use the correspondence-appropriate salutations and benedictions. And I certainly do not take your formality amiss.

Your brother in Christ,
Vasya.

[Philip]

In my place of employment, the current greating for one's peers is 'Talk to me, Goose.'

[MariaRegina]

In my place of employment, the current greating for one's peers is 'Talk to me, Goose.'

Or at the college, men and women greet each other with:

Hi, Dude!

Doot! Doot!

[Kolya]

Dear Aria / Elizabeth (As you prefer),

My age is proudly displayed next to my Screen Name, and I am of your generation too.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about formal greetings and salutations, but they are, like all things in life, to be used at the appropriate time in the correct setting.

I often send Cellular text messages to our parish Priest, which I always preface with "Blessings Reverend Father I...n" and end with "Kissing your right hand." This is right and correct in that setting. I also address my superiors at the office in an email as "Hi Mr XYZ" and end with. "Kind regards". Any epistles to strangers I would preface with "Dear Ms Jones" and end with, "Faithfully yours".

But on a message board such as this, where conversational style writing is used, I would only start my first message of the day with a "Hi Guys" style, and no ending. I recently changed my Screen Name exactly for that reason - not to end every message with "Kolya". All members of this board, and any lurkers know exactly who I am from my posted name at the heading of my message.

I hope I do not offend you with my style in future, as no offence is intentioned.

Faithfully,

Your brother in Christ,

Kolya

[Photini]

I view these posts as on-going conversations. I don't see the need to prepend and postpend salutations on each post just as I don't see the need to do so in a vocal conversation. Perhaps in the first post of a thread, since it is the beginning of a new conversation, but not in each post.
I see it this way too. I'm a bit more formal in my PM's. But I look at threads as an on-going conversation. In normal conversation I don't end each statement with a "good evening" or whatever...and neither do I here.

[Photini]

I am a senior citizen and proud of my gray hair.



I'm not quite a senior citizen yet....but I'm pretty proud of my premature gray hairs too. :) At the rate I'm going, I will be completely white-haired by the time I'm 40.

[Irish Melkite]

Aria,

I'm of your generation - maybe even older than you - and have been posting on net forums for about as long as they have existed. I long since discovered that salutations weren't the order of the day and gave up on using them, as they appeared stiff by comparison to the style of others. I do, however, use the name (my preference, if I know it) or the nick of the individual to whom I'm addressing my post - it avoids misunderstandings. If the post is directed to a general audience, rather than an individual, my tendency is to use something akin to "My brothers and sisters". The single instance in which I ordinarily do neither is in response to a thread requesting prayers for someone's repose or other needs. As mentioned by someone else here, I look at the exchange as a conversation (in its opening) and, thus, find "dear" superfluous.

In closing, I admit to departing from the conversational mode - not sure why. Unlike Matrona, I don't see the signature feature as fulfilling the need to wish well - I see it rather as an opportunity to showcase some thought or message that is meaningful to the poster. Thus, with the exception, once again, of prayer threads, I inevitably end my posts with "Many years" and my name - it allows me to express a prayerful wish for the person or persons with whom I'm conversing and my name reminds the reader who posted the message (sometimes easily forgotten by the time one gets to the conclusion of my sometimes verbose posts).

I also think that the use of names in opening and closing posts adds a measure of politeness and civility, reminding us that there are people looking at screens and reading our words, that we aren't just typing into a vacuum. It's way too easy, in a medium where the nuance of facial expressions and tone of voice are absent, to become blase about the fact that our words might have an effect on others - cause them to laugh, to cry, to smile, to grimace - that one can hurt, heal, etc, is all too easily overlooked in a faceless venue.

Just my two cents.

Many years,

Neil

[Kolya]

I also think that the use of names in opening and closing posts adds a measure of politeness and civility, reminding us that there are people looking at screens and reading our words, that we aren't just typing into a vacuum. It's way too easy, in a medium where the nuance of facial expressions and tone of voice are absent, to become blase about the fact that our words might have an effect on others - cause them to laugh, to cry, to smile, to grimace - that one can hurt, heal, etc, is all too easily overlooked in a faceless venue.

Just my two cents.

Many years,

Neil

I like those thoughts Neil, worth more than just 2 cents in any case.;)

Kolya

[Irish Melkite]

I like those thoughts Neil, worth more than just 2 cents in any case.;)

Kolya,

Yeah, but what do you know? You're almost as old as me ;) !

Many years,

Neil

[Matrona]

In closing, I admit to departing from the conversational mode - not sure why. Unlike Matrona, I don't see the signature feature as fulfilling the need to wish well - I see it rather as an opportunity to showcase some thought or message that is meaningful to the poster.

Right, so next time I write a check, I won't sign my name, I'll just pop in a quote from the Lenten Triodion on the signature line, or from some movie I saw.

I see few people have acknowledged that Aria is comparing not using letter style, with euthanasia. Anybody else in favor of telling Aria to cut the melodrama and grow the hell up?

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I see few people have acknowledged that Aria is comparing not using letter style, with euthanasia. Anybody else in favor of telling Aria to cut the melodrama and grow the hell up?
That's a little rough, but I agree that the comparison with euthanasia is absolutely irrational. A psychiatrist would probably see that as diagnostic.

[Mary of Bethany]

Hey, all -

it's Lent. How 'bout we cut each other a *lot* of slack, and just go on. :)

Mary

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Hey, all -

it's Lent. How 'bout we cut each other a *lot* of slack, and just go on. :)

Mary
Agreed.:hug:

[Monica, child of God]

Hey, all -

it's Lent. How 'bout we cut each other a *lot* of slack, and just go on. :)

Mary


Yes, let's.

"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." --1 Peter 4:8

Monica

[Matrona]

/me breaks out a guitar and starts singing Kumbaya...

[Alexis OCA]

* Matrona breaks out a guitar and starts singing Kumbaya...

Alexis, in "Animal House" fashion, rips guitar from Matrona's hands, smahes it on bannister and mumbles...."sorry".
PLEASE, ANYTHING BUT KUMBAYA!!!:hug:

[Monica, child of God]

* Matrona breaks out a guitar and starts singing Kumbaya...


YES! The kumbaya lovefest is on! (swaying gently) oh lord kumbaya...

Monica ;)

[Matrona]

Alexis, in "Animal House" fashion, rips guitar from Matrona's hands, smahes it on bannister and mumbles...."sorry".
PLEASE, ANYTHING BUT KUMBAYA!!!:hug:

/me blows a raspberry at Alexis and breaks out a ukelele.... :D

[Alexis OCA]

* Matrona blows a raspberry at Alexis and breaks out a ukelele.... :D

Get thee to a nunnery!^_^

[Irish Melkite]

Right, so next time I write a check, I won't sign my name, I'll just pop in a quote from the Lenten Triodion on the signature line, or from some movie I saw.

Matrona,

I just skimmed through this thread and, while you include your name in your signature, as does Alexis, most do not - most consist of a quote or a weblink, etc. - my point.

Many years,

Neil

[MariaRegina]

A BILL BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE TO LEGALIZE ASSISTED SUICIDE

Since you asked, and this is the second time I have responded to the Euthanasia question, here is the letter that distracted me ... it was not a comparison ... but a reflection that I am now well over 50.

AB 654 has been introduced to the California legislature and apparently Governor Schwarzenneger has not indicated which way he wil go.

For those interested, you can order information online at www.californiaprofile.org

Pray!

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth