Letter to our Roman Catholic Friends

[SPALATIN]

Dear Friends in Christ,

As it was not my intention to have the NEW POPE ELECTED thread turned into a trash the Catholics thread I am deeply sorry that it got that way. While there is some truth to the fact that Luther wrote about the Pope in this way it is certainly no reason for any of us to make posts to that effect in the closed thread.

If any of the words I wrote lent to that idea I am sorry for them and repent of them. While there are differences and disagreement between Roman Catholics and Lutherans we should be working toward someday being in true ecumenical agreement. I don't know that it is possible at this time, but we should at least be working to understand each other's faith more than in the past. We have some former Catholics that have become Lutherans and a few Lutherans who have gone either Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

Please accept my apologies and I hope the apologies of others here on TCCL for our indiscretionary remarks regarding the Pope.

Pax Christi
Scott Strohkirch

[Protoevangel]

I would like to add my voice to Scott's.

I would also like to add, :hug:I love you, my Catholic brothers and Sisters! :hug: I rejoice that the Holy Spirit has spoken to your Cardinals, and they have listened. I believe that Pope Benedict XVI will be a blessing to not only the Roman Catholic Church, but to the entire body of Christ, as was Pope John Paul II.

[Veritas_et_Puritas]

Thank you very much. You don't know how much we appreciate your compassion and understanding, even in the face of adversity. God bless. :hug:

[thereselittleflower]

Scott thank you, though I did not see your post as offensive at all, another's post was, but you had no control over that. But thank you for being so sensitive regarding how what happened in the other thread can affect us.

I want to take the oppotunity to say thank you for all the wonderful and postive comments, interest and well wishes that have been expressed in either thread. They are most appreciated! :)


Peace

[CeeBee]

Thanks, dear brethren. God bless!

[SemStudent08]

Dear Friends in Christ,

As it was not my intention to have the NEW POPE ELECTED thread turned into a trash the Catholics thread I am deeply sorry that it got that way. While there is some truth to the fact that Luther wrote about the Pope in this way it is certainly no reason for any of us to make posts to that effect in the closed thread.

If any of the words I wrote lent to that idea I am sorry for them and repent of them. While there are differences and disagreement between Roman Catholics and Lutherans we should be working toward someday being in true ecumenical agreement. I don't know that it is possible at this time, but we should at least be working to understand each other's faith more than in the past. We have some former Catholics that have become Lutherans and a few Lutherans who have gone either Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

Please accept my apologies and I hope the apologies of others here on TCCL for our indiscretionary remarks regarding the Pope.

Pax Christi
Scott Strohkirch

:amen:

Let me add my voice to yours, Scott, as a fellow Lutheran.

[RedneckAnglican]

I am very happy for my Catholic Brothers and Sisters in CHRIST...I rejoice with you at the Crowning of another hier to the Throne of Peter...besides...If I ever said anything anti-Catholic I would be kicked out of my family...I am the only protestant...

[KagomeShuko]

This is a Lutheran Forum. Why can't we express Lutheran teachings and Confessions here?:confused: :confused: :confused:

We can, without bahsing and flaming other denominations and "brands" of Lutheranism other than your own.

[SemStudent08]

This is a Lutheran Forum. Why can't we express Lutheran teachings and Confessions here?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Don't mind if I do. I will not even call the Office of the Papacy the anti...see, I can't even repeat it. First of all I am more than willing to put such Bulls as Unum Santum by Bonafice VII in 1302 in the context of 1302 in which Bonafice was in a power struggle with King Philip IV of France (and it was a power struggle...Philip had Bonafice kidnapped!!!) and used this Bull to try and strengthen his position. Yes, Luther condemned these absolute authoritarian feelings concerning the Papacy. But a wonderful thing occurred recently and is still occurring. Back in 2000 in Augsburg Germany the LWf (Lutheran World Federation) and the Roman Catholic Church signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/pccujnt4.htm). Amongst other things, this document rescinds the reciprocal condemnations of both signatory churches towards each other. And recognizes that "By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works." Not much in there about the authority of the Pope or necessary belief therein, is there? Yes, I do hope that someday such Bulls as Unum Sanctum that divide us and that the Catholic church has moved away from might be rescinded, but until that time I am willing to treat those Bulls as historical documents, dependent on their context. Now, JPW, I know that LCMS did not take part in this ecumenical process and was not a signatory church to the JDDJ, so I don't expect you to agree with me. But I felt it necessary to point out that not all Lutherans believe such things concerning the Catholic Church. And that a significant portion of Lutherans are in favor of ecumenical growth and healthy discussion.

[GlowingFirefly]

Dear Friends in Christ,

As it was not my intention to have the NEW POPE ELECTED thread turned into a trash the Catholics thread I am deeply sorry that it got that way. While there is some truth to the fact that Luther wrote about the Pope in this way it is certainly no reason for any of us to make posts to that effect in the closed thread.

If any of the words I wrote lent to that idea I am sorry for them and repent of them. While there are differences and disagreement between Roman Catholics and Lutherans we should be working toward someday being in true ecumenical agreement. I don't know that it is possible at this time, but we should at least be working to understand each other's faith more than in the past. We have some former Catholics that have become Lutherans and a few Lutherans who have gone either Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

Please accept my apologies and I hope the apologies of others here on TCCL for our indiscretionary remarks regarding the Pope.

Pax Christi
Scott Strohkirch

:hug: Thank you for posting this Scott.

I'm sorry too that I had to close that thread. But I have re-opened it just now. I did post a stern reminder however.

Again, thanks for posting this. I do hope we can all just forgive, forget, and move on. :)

[revjpw]

Don't mind if I do. ... Yes, Luther condemned these absolute authoritarian feelings concerning the Papacy. But a wonderful thing occurred recently and is still occurring. Back in 2000 in Augsburg Germany the LWf (Lutheran World Federation) and the Roman Catholic Church signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/pccujnt4.htm). Amongst other things, this document rescinds the reciprocal condemnations of both signatory churches towards each other. And recognizes that "By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works." Not much in there about the authority of the Pope or necessary belief therein, is there? Yes, I do hope that someday such Bulls as Unum Sanctum that divide us and that the Catholic church has moved away from might be rescinded, but until that time I am willing to treat those Bulls as historical documents, dependent on their context. Now, JPW, I know that LCMS did not take part in this ecumenical process and was not a signatory church to the JDDJ, so I don't expect you to agree with me. But I felt it necessary to point out that not all Lutherans believe such things concerning the Catholic Church. And that a significant portion of Lutherans are in favor of ecumenical growth and healthy discussion.


"A wonderful thing"??:scratch: :confused: The fact is that the JDDJ was a sell-out by the LWF. Rome views justification as a process, whereby we cooperate with God's grace in order to merit eternal life for ourselves, and even for others. This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. They have not changed their teaching on this issue at all. This is precisely why the LCMS wanted nothing to do with it.

This certainly is not Lutheran teaching. The true Lutheran teaching on justification is Biblical, and is diametrically opposed to the RCC teaching on justification.

[SPALATIN]

I, too, apologize if my post in the other thread was misunderstood. I did not mean to say that the Pope himself is Anti-Christ. The Pope, as Bishop of Rome, is a called and ordained servant of the Word and the ecclesiastical head of the Church of Rome. I delight with my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters (some members of my own family) that they now have their ecclesiastical leader again. He is the leader of the Roman Catholic denomination.

However, the office of the papacy is anti-Christ because it is set up in place of God in the Roman Church. The unum Sanctum of 1302 (among other edicts and teachings of Rome) basically says that if you do not believe in the Pope, you are condemned. Our salvation does not rest in the belief in another human being. We are to worhip the Creator, not the creation. That is idolatry and a violation of the First Commandment.

This is a Lutheran Forum. Why can't we express Lutheran teachings and Confessions here?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Rev,

I think that the way you described these teachings here is the right way to do it. It did not bash the RCC but gave reasons as to why we have the disagreements that we do. I think that sometimes our discussions however, can sound as if we are making ourselves to be the better brand of Christianity. What you said above will invite discussion and debate rather than hard feelings. We need to stay away from comments that are derogatory and instead find ways in love of our Christian Brothers and Sisters to show them what those errors are without being overly confrontational.

Scott

[Rechtgläubig]

"A wonderful thing"??:scratch: :confused: The fact is that the JDDJ was a sell-out by the LWF. Rome views justification as a process, whereby we cooperate with God's grace in order to merit eternal life for ourselves, and even for others. This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. They have not changed their teaching on this issue at all. This is precisely why the LCMS wanted nothing to do with it.

This certainly is not Lutheran teaching. The true Lutheran teaching on justification is Biblical, and is diametrically opposed to the RCC teaching on justification.

Turn your blasted rep-thingy on sir! :D

[SPALATIN]

Turn your blasted rep-thingy on sir! :D

Recht,

Rev is not into the Reputation game here so he has turned it off on purpose. You will have to just compliment him on his post.

[revjpw]

Turn your blasted rep-thingy on sir! :D

That in itself is taken as a compliment. I thank you.
I am surprised that it's still here, though. My posts have been disappearing left and right around here.
:confused:

[SPALATIN]

That in itself is taken as a compliment. I thank you.
I am surprised that it's still here, though. My posts have been disappearing left and right around here.
:confused:

Au contraire mon ami, your posts are all over the place. ;)

[revjpw]

Au contraire mon ami, your posts are all over the place. ;)

...but they're slowly becoming extinct.:sigh:

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Thank you very much. :)

In Christ and in love,

Your brother in the Lord Robbie :wave: