Question on the necessity of Christ's Passion

[Oblio]

[mod note]

A non-Christian inquirer sent me a PM, and I thought it appropriate to post it here for consideration as follows

[/note]

Hellos!

<snip introduction - Oblio>

Assuming I'm understanding the Orthodox concept of heaven and hell (ie, everyone experiences the love of God, but based on whether their heart loves or hates God the love can be warm and comforting or torturous.), what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross if we are all going back to God in the end, anyway? If love of God in the heart is what truly matters, then why not leave things as they were in Judaism?

I apologise throughly if I've entirely misunderstood everything. If I have, please correct me

Much thanks.

[Padraig]

I would recommend reading the Paschal sermon of St John Chrysostom. Maybe someone could post it as I'm not sure how to find an electronic copy of it...then again I haven't looked :)


Slainte,
Padraig

[countrymouse33ad]

You might point out to him that under the Law of Moses, there was no resurrection, therefore no restoration to what God made us to be in the beginning. The Orthodox concept of salvation isn't just some acceptably comfortable bodiless existence.

[blakesto]

"By his own death, he destroyed death."

[Konstantinos]

If I can quote Christos Anesti " Christ has risen from the dead, by death he has trampled upon death, and to those in the tombs, he is bestowing life"

[Orthosdoxa]

He had to partake in our death, that we might partake in His Life.

Somehow, Him partaking of our sufferings must fit in there, too....

[Philip]

what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross if we are all going back to God in the end, anyway?

Romans 6:3-5
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:



On the Incarnation 21
Why, now that the common Saviour of all has died on our behalf, we, the faithful in Christ, no longer die the death as before, agreeably to the warning of the law; for this condemnation has ceased; but, corruption ceasing and being put away by the grace of the Resurrection, henceforth we are only dissolved, agreeably to our bodies’ mortal nature, at the time God has fixed for each, that we may be able to gain a better resurrection. 2. For like the seeds which are cast into the earth, we do not perish by dissolution, but sown in the earth, shall rise again, death having been brought to nought by the grace of the Saviour. Hence it is that blessed Paul, who was made a surety of the Resurrection to all, says: “This corruptible259 must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality; but when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?” 3. Why, then, one might say, if it were necessary for Him to yield up His body to death in the stead of all, did He not lay it aside as man privately, instead of going as far as even to be crucified? For it were more fitting for Him to have laid His body aside honourably, than ignominiously to endure a death like this. 4. Now, see to it, I reply, whether such an objection be not merely human, whereas what the Saviour did is truly divine and for many reasons worthy of His Godhead. Firstly, because the death which befalls men comes to them agreeably to the weakness of their nature; for, unable to continue in one stay, they are dissolved with time. Hence, too, diseases befall them, and they fall sick and die. But the Lord is not weak, but is the Power of God and Word of God and Very Life. 5. If, then, He had laid aside His body somewhere in private, and upon a bed, after the manner of men, it would have been thought that He also did this agreeably to the weakness of His nature, and because there was nothing in him more than in other men. But since He was, firstly, the Life and the Word of God, and it was necessary, secondly, for the death on behalf of all to be accomplished, for this cause, on the one hand, because He was life and power, the body gained strength in Him; 6. while on the other, as death must needs come to pass, He did not Himself take, but received at others’ hands; the occasion of perfecting His sacrifice. Since it was not fit, either, that the Lord should fall sick, who healed the diseases of others; nor again was it right for that body to lose its strength, in which He gives strength to the weaknesses of others also. 7. Why, then, did He not prevent death, as He did sickness? Because it was for this that He had the body, and it was unfitting to prevent it, lest the Resurrection also should be hindered, while yet it was equally unfitting for sickness to precede His death, lest it should be thought weakness on the part of Him that was in the body. Did He not then hunger? Yes; He hungered, agreeably to the properties of His body. But He did not perish of hunger, because of the Lord that wore it. Hence, even if He died to ransom all, yet He saw not corruption. For [His body] rose again in perfect soundness, since the body belonged to none other, but to the very Life.




If love of God in the heart is what truly matters, then why not leave things as they were in Judaism?


The Incarnation changed everything.

[Oblio]

On the Incarnation 21


Can be found in it's entirety (a good read on Orthodox soteriology) here (http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/history/ath-inc.htm)

P.S. Don't let the host site fool you, much of it is unOrthodox, but the linked article is not. I like that copy of the treatise for it's formatting and the introduction by C.S. Lewis.

[Monica, child of God]

“Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows...But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied...my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities...he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. --Isaiah 53

According to Bishop Kallistos the atonement that necessitated Christ passion includes many images that help us but they should be used in concert and not pressed too far:

ransom--"The Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45) But we do no ask to whom the ransom was paid; the point is the effect.

sacrifice--"Christ our passover has been sacrificed for us" (1 Cor. 5:7) But the essence of sacrafice to God is not death but total offering. "Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." Ephesians 5:2

victory-- "When he ascended on high, he made captivity itself a captive." Eph. 4:8 Christ's death tramples down death. Death is destroyed by humble love, the strongest thing in the universe.

example-- "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself" John 12:32 Jesus' example of total love and humility attracts us to him.

Monica