Book of Revelation

[Gcront]

Book of Revelation
Studying from this book of Revelation I learned much, but it wasn’t until after I had studied from this complete Holy Book - being the Revelations of Jesus Christ. It was then that I discovered that there was something here much more than remarkable, a Church that would and shall exist here in the last days; becoming the Forerunner of the Second Coming of Christ.
I had here founded something that was much more than even greater, something that stood above all things. Something that had now appeared from within this most remarkable book of Revelation, it was much greater than I could have even imagined. – This was not of any or no small matter, which I saw coming from within this great book, in which God had now placed and put his great concerned.
It was something that would soon become God’s major development or concern, which this book shall soon bring to pass. This was the revelation that was prophesying the Church, which would become the Forerunner of Jesus Christ’s own Second Coming.
It wasn’t until after these things, after I had studied the whole book of Revelation, when I looked back over the entire book of Revelation within its total entirety. Then with this complete book of Revelation being laid out before me, it was then to become a vision. With Christ standing there before me, giving his likes and dislikes unto this New Church becoming his Forerunner, and also of the things that it would also have to face before his Second Coming.
It was something that I had never witnessed or experienced before, something that caused or sends a funny filling through my entire body. The same thing that Moses must have felt, when he stood before God, which we once again find recorded from the book of Hebrews. Thanks Herbert

[Amongst the Flock]

The interesting part about revelations is how the Middle East will be the focus of armageddon and the end of the world where Satan will be defeated and condemned to meet his final resting place in hell for eternal torment and suffering. The one thing that is interesting is that America is the only country that is keeping Israel from being wiped off the map, we are the most powerful country and yet we aren't mentioned in the Book of Revelations. It makes you wonder if something catastophic will happen to our country before Armageddon begins.

Have fun at church tommorrow.

[Biliskner]

The Book of Revelation is both a book for "today" (John's "day") as well as "today" - the present "our" time.

It is also a prophetic book.

It is the two merged into one, like Daniel. I don't think we can fully comprehend the book until we are in Heaven, in hindsight.

Careful how you interpret this book, and careful about asserting assumptions. I find it a very encouraging book, that no matter what happens to this world, to us - Christians - God will always be with us and Rev21-22 are the best chapters. Also in Rev1-2, the knowledge that Jesus Christ walks among his Church has got to be the greatest knowledge and protection... unless you're the Church of Laodacia... mmm... better open that door and let your Savior in, eh? :eek:

[S Walch]

The interesting part about revelations is how the Middle East will be the focus of armageddon and the end of the world where Satan will be defeated and condemned to meet his final resting place in hell for eternal torment and suffering.

Satan doesn't get thrown into hell.

He, along with hell and death is thrown into the lake of Fire.

The Lake of Fire isn't hell.

We can see this from revelation 20: 10, 13-15

10Then the Devil, who betrayed them, was thrown into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

13 The sea gave up the dead in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead in them. They were all judged according to their deeds. 14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Hades = Greek for hell.

So, Death, Hell, Satan, the Beast, the False prophet and all those not written in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of fire, where they shall be tortured day and night, forever.

[Rebirth In Flames]

The interesting part about revelations is how the Middle East will be the focus of armageddon and the end of the world where Satan will be defeated and condemned to meet his final resting place in hell for eternal torment and suffering. The one thing that is interesting is that America is the only country that is keeping Israel from being wiped off the map, we are the most powerful country and yet we aren't mentioned in the Book of Revelations. It makes you wonder if something catastophic will happen to our country before Armageddon begins.

Good point.

The Lake of Fire isn't hell.

Some would say this isn’t a literal description; rather, it’s a metaphor.

[James1979]

The Book of Revelation is both a book for "today" (John's "day") as well as "today" - the present "our" time.

It is also a prophetic book.

It is the two merged into one, like Daniel. I don't think we can fully comprehend the book until we are in Heaven, in hindsight.

Careful how you interpret this book, and careful about asserting assumptions. I find it a very encouraging book, that no matter what happens to this world, to us - Christians - God will always be with us and Rev21-22 are the best chapters. Also in Rev1-2, the knowledge that Jesus Christ walks among his Church has got to be the greatest knowledge and protection... unless you're the Church of Laodacia... mmm... better open that door and let your Savior in, eh? :eek:

It's very possible to understand the book of Revelation if we ask God for his wisdom and do some serious study, it can be understood.

[Edouard]

End Times: Mattew chapter 24
Coming of Christ: I Thessalonians Chapters 4 & 5.

Concept of Hades & Hell is tricky. (context plays a role here).

Luke 16:19-31

Hades is known as the "abode of the physcially dead."

Hence, Hades there is hell & hades.

Another account would be Hebrews where it discusses a cloud of witnesses ( being prophets ).

Also the transfiguration in Matthew.

I Corithians 15 discusses death and ressurection ect..

Edouard
just some thoughts.

[Highland Watchman]

The interesting part about revelations is how the Middle East will be the focus of armageddon and the end of the world where Satan will be defeated and condemned to meet his final resting place in hell for eternal torment and suffering. The one thing that is interesting is that America is the only country that is keeping Israel from being wiped off the map, we are the most powerful country and yet we aren't mentioned in the Book of Revelations. It makes you wonder if something catastophic will happen to our country before Armageddon begins.

Have fun at church tommorrow.

Um... this post is a bit Americo-centric... Be very careful, oh nations, that you do not think too highly of yourselves. For recognize this: You are not the only nation that is not mentioned... Which, if you read it through literally, the only nations mentioned are Israel and Babylon... and Babylon, as of 538 BC, does not exist as an empire or nation. So John was referring to something else here. Not even Rome, which was the most powerful nation at the time, was not mentioned in so many words...

I would also be very careful in your interpretation of what Revelation is actually saying... The Mediggo Valley (called Armageddon) was actually the key to Middle Eastern trade in the ancient world. If you hold Mediggo, you hold the trade throughout the Middle East, Eurasia and North Africa... which would make you very rich and very powerful... so the valley of Mediggo would be the site of varous battles throughout history, and thus represents the key to the rest of the world. Of course, by saying this, I am not denying the possibility of there being a literal battle at Armageddon at the end. However, I am not going to base my faith on it.

I would agree with Biliskner in stating that we should be very careful in attributing meanings to the images found in the apocalyptic genre of literature without an understanding or consideration of the meanings in the text from the original context of the author and his intended audience. It is not impossible to know what John was saying, or even what the message that the Holy Spirit wanted to convey through John... but we still must use discretion and discernment in its interpretation.

[Biliskner]

It's very possible to understand the book of Revelation if we ask God for his wisdom and do some serious study, it can be understood.

agreed.

[Gcront]

I have heard many bible scholars say that the New World is not mention anywhere in the Bible, but we know that we can very easy trace our roots into the New World, by following the long hard road of our Christianity that our forefather had to follow. We find that the churches and Christianity spread rapidly, due to the works of St. Paul and the many other apostles of Christ.
This was from and with the help of the Holy Spirit, becoming the Spirit of the Godhead from above. At first the Romans persecuted the Christians, then it was the Emperor Constantine, who granted them the freedom of religion, this was in the year of A.D.313. Christianity became the official religion of the Rome Empire, which was about the year of A.D.380.
Then when the Moslems invaded the Holy Land, the churches preserved its learning during the Dark Ages through its monasteries. Then in the A.D.800’s, schism division came between the church at Rome, and the church at Constantinople.
Then the Puritan religious being a group of Protestants, which was then being expressed in England in the late A.D.1500’s. Then at first it was opposed by the officials of the Church of England, and also by the English government, which had the supervision over the religious affairs.
After some time some of the democratic ideas of the Puritan finally won a place for themselves after many years of oppression, persecution, a civil war, and a period of political and religious dictatorship.
In the A.D.1536 King Henry VII started to take away power from the Roman Catholic Church in English, but many of the changes did not satisfy many of the Puritans. Then some of the Puritans wanted to abolish the priesthood, as well as doing away with bishops all together.
John Knox led the Protestant Reformation in Scotland, at one time he had been ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, but before A.D.1545 he became a Protestant.
He was a good friend of Georgia Wishart, who in A.D.1546 was burned at the states by the order of Cardinal Beaton, an Archbishop of Saint Andrews. In revenge, friends of Wishart murder the Cardinal. After this Knox’s career was soon stopped by the surrender of the city to the French in A.D.d1547.
In A.D.1559 Knox returned to Scotland after Queen Mary death, and began a career that trumpeted. The Religious Christianity soon spread through out Scotland in A.D.1560. With Knox married into the Royal Stuart Family, this connection might have gone a long ways, I sure that this could not have done any harm with God’s help.
For a time in the A.D.1600 the Puritans, they or the Protestant played an important part in English politics. This influence lasted during the struggle between King Charles and his Parliament, over the question of the divine rights of kings.
The first permanent English Colony in American was establish in Virginia in A.D.1607 in search for treasure and to spread the Christian faith among the Indians, it was named Jamestown in honor of King James I. The Puritans or the Protestant, migrated to New England latter in his reign.
One of the major achievements of King James I, during the Royal Stuart reigns, was the translation of the Bible into English. This was by a commission of churchmen or Bible Scholars, and this was published in A.D.1611, to become known – as the King James Version. This translation was carried out by fifty-four Bible Scholars, this is a version of the Bible that has stood the tides of time, which God have had to protect many times from within the will of man.
Then after Captain John Smith held the English Colony together, after what was a very bad winter, he had to return back to England for the treatment of a wound in 1609AD. Then after he returned back to America in A.D.1614, and explored and named what he had found New England.
Then he wrote a book being a description of New England, latter it was to become a guide for the Pilgrims here into the new country. Smith hoped to establish a permanent Colony in Massachusetts Bay, but bad luck prevented him.
The pilgrims while in England, they had also been a part of a body of the Protestants, which was called Puritans in the year of about the 1600AD. Some of the Puritans separated from the Church of England and had set up their own congregation then in A.D.1620 to A.D.1623.
The pilgrims came to America seeking freedom of worship, as they pleased. But within their freedom of religion, there was still only one God, their one and only God Jehovah.
We know that many Bible scholars say or believe that the New World is not mention, anywhere in the Book of Revelation. And no Marvel; we know that if man can trace their own family tree, or roots back unto the old country.
Then we know that man can also truly trace their roots back, to what was once known, as the Holy Land of God. Where our forefathers once fought and died for our religious rights, and also for this, being the true word of our one and only true Godhead.
Thanks Herbert

[Gcront]

We cannot quote the mind of God, or the wonderful work of his hands, We cannot prophesy what will be the will of his mind, nor the will that he shall place upon man before his coming. Then yet we find something very important in we should give some though, could this have been America as they came across the ocean being this great flood, for this is also the same time that had been allotted to the Gentiles.

Revelation the twelfth chapter
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a women clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:”
“And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads upon his heads.”
“And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the women which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.”
“And the women fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
“And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the women, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.”
“And the earth helped the women, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.”

Could this have been America?
Thanks Herbert

[Highland Watchman]

We cannot quote the mind of God, or the wonderful work of his hands, We cannot prophesy what will be the will of his mind, nor the will that he shall place upon man before his coming. Then yet we find something very important in we should give some though, could this have been America as they came across the ocean being this great flood, for this is also the same time that had been allotted to the Gentiles.

Revelation the twelfth chapter
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a women clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:”
“And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads upon his heads.”
“And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the women which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.”
“And the women fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
“And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the women, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.”
“And the earth helped the women, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.”

Could this have been America?
Thanks Herbert

hm... interesting idea. Perhaps we'll tell Hal Lindsey about this great revelation and he can write about how it is another reason why the rapture will happen in the next 3 years or so, after the USSR invades Israel and China sends its army across the Arabian deserts. :P

Seriously, though. If we are to read or study scripure to any degree, we must remember CONTEXT... Revelation does not mention America because America is not the center of the universe, nor was it a nation at the time of John's writing (and so nobody would have cared or understood it to mean America). Not only this, but it is Apocalytic literature, which uses symbolic language that the people would understand... Remember, Revelation is written to 1st century Christians by a 1st century Jewish Christian. So it would be understood from the perspective of a 1st century Jew. Where else do we see 12 in Scripture (namely, the Old Testament)? And what is the nation Israel commonly attributed to being in the Old Testament prophetic literature?

I very much encourage you in your continued search for meaning as you look through the book of Revelation... there really is a lot there that you can take out of it. Actually, if you want a really great book that discusses Revelation, look for Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson. It's one of his better books, and it will increase your passion for this incredible piece of the Bible.

[michaeldimmickjr]

We cannot quote the mind of God, or the wonderful work of his hands, We cannot prophesy what will be the will of his mind, nor the will that he shall place upon man before his coming. Then yet we find something very important in we should give some though, could this have been America as they came across the ocean being this great flood, for this is also the same time that had been allotted to the Gentiles.

Revelation the twelfth chapter
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a women clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:”
“And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads upon his heads.”
“And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the women which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.”
“And the women fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
“And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the women, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.”
“And the earth helped the women, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.”

Could this have been America?
Thanks Herbert

The most popular translation I have found is that the woman here is Israel. The child is Jesus.
Catholics on the other hand say the the woman is Mary.

I believe it is Israel because I have found some interesting information as to how the woman is described. As far as what the Catholics believe, I have not seen any evidence that supports that it is infact Mary.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[Highland Watchman]

The most popular translation I have found is that the woman here is Israel. The child is Jesus.
Catholics on the other hand say the the woman is Mary.

I believe it is Israel because I have found some interesting information as to how the woman is described. As far as what the Catholics believe, I have not seen any evidence that supports that it is infact Mary.

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

I would agree with this interpretation... Although I have also seen it being described as the child being the Church, and taking that from Isaiah 66:8.

Hm... the woman being Mary, huh? hm... interesting... A bit farfetched, but an interesting thought, nevertheless...

[michaeldimmickjr]

I would agree with this interpretation... Although I have also seen it being described as the child being the Church, and taking that from Isaiah 66:8.

Hm... the woman being Mary, huh? hm... interesting... A bit farfetched, but an interesting thought, nevertheless...



If we know what the sun, moon, and 12 stars mean here, we can know for sure who the woman is. So we need to go back to the Tanakh and get a definition of the symbols used. "And he (Jospeh) dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?" Genesis 37:9,10 Gen. 37:10 clearly explains the symbols were Joseph's family: the sun was his father Jacob , the moon was his mother Rachel, and the 11 stars were his brothers (aka the sons of Jacob, tribes of Israel ). So we know the woman in Revelation is Israel --- a Jewish Israel. She wears the very early symbols given to Jacob and the tribes. This is about as Jewish as it gets.





This is a pretty good explanation, I found this at http://www.lightofmashiach.org/woman.html

Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

[Edouard]

revelation the twelth chapter be discussing the birth of christ???
just a thought! :)

[Edouard]

revelations the twelth chapter be discussing the birth of Christ?
the number twleve usually refers to the tribes of israel and judah! :)

just some thoughts!
Edouard

[daverain]

.



It's neat how in The Revelation Of John:

-WE FIND NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE-

(I just had to say it. )


(Also...

If The President took over the world, and commanded everyone to recieve the mark of the beast...

I wouldn't be too quick to think that the 'anti Christ' -couldn't- come from The U.S. , and/or Canada. )


Peace in Christ.



,

[S Walch]

I always expected that the Anti-christ might be roman in origin.

And yes, the Woman IS Israel - As people have already pointed out the twelve starts and sun and moon thing from Genesis.

The Entire book of Revelation, after Chapter 4, is about the Jews - As you will notice, there is no mention of the Gentiles after Jesus has critisized the Gentile churches in the first 4 chapters.

And meh, it's definantly not Mary - Mary wasn't in the wilderness for 1260 days after giving birth to Jesus.

[James1979]

I believe I have a correct understanding about this Revelation chapter 12 but it's a lot of reading, would you guys mind me explaining it?

[S Walch]

Sure, go Ahead - I always love reading peoples interpertations of Revelation

[James1979]

Revelations 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The woman that is mentioned in verse one is Mary who represents of the old testament believers who gives birth to our Lord Jesus Christs. It says that the woman is clothed with the sun. This is referring to being clothed with Christ who is their robe of righteousness(robe of righteousness/garmanents of salvation Isaiah 61:10). The moon under her feet identifies of not being under the wrather no more, the law cannot condemn believers no more. The twelves stars is referring that the believers now have the crown of righteousness and the believers are now reigning with the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The great red dragon identifies Satan himself as compare it with other scriptures so this can be a valid conclusion. Rev 12:9/Rev 20:2. So therefore Satan seven heads and ten horns and upon his seven heads around crowns. This has to do with Satan ruling in the hearts of unsaved indiviuals from the beginning of mankind creation throughout time of this world. Because remember if a believer is saved, Christ is ruling in their hearts and Satan cannot enter into the believers heart such as an unsaved person like Judas who betrayed Jesus, Satan had enter into Judas(ie of Satan ruling in the hears of unsaved indiviuals.)

It says that Satan's tail threw the third part of the stars from heaven to earth. The stars represent the believers(all who would be saved through the timeline of this world) who by Satan had tricked Eve and Adam ate of the fruit which led them to sin and in a way has casted them out of heaven down to earth. So now they need a Savior to have access back to heaven to dwell with God once again and that is through the promise from Abraham and has been fulfilled through Mary who gave birth to the Lord Jesus Christ and remember that Herod seek the child to be destry as Satan was working in his heart to do this but this did not happen because God instructed Joseph\Mary to depart to Egypt(Matthew 2:13)

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

The man child is the Lord Jesus Christ who came down to save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21) After he died on the cross, he resurrected and ascended back to Heaven.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

The new testaments believers are cared for by God. The 1260 days is from the cross up until the end of the world as this is mentioned also in Daniels 9:27 pointing to the burnt offerings had come to an end so that Christ can be the ultimate sacrfice and then later on their will come a time when the abomination of desolation will occur and eventually lead up to the last day which is Judgment Day.

The remaining verses of Rev 12 is talking about how Satan has been kicked out of heaven showing that Christ has defeated him at the cross, so now he has no access to heaven anymore so Christ threw Satan and his followers(angels) to earth to deceive the whole world and began to sow his tares amongst the wheat in the churches and rule in the hearts of people who also don't associate with the churches. So now Satan who has ministers of righteousness working for him is making war with God's people by distorting the gospel and making all kinds of doctrines of men and so forth as God's people continue to be faithful to God's commandment and preaching the true gospel.

[daverain]

Are you sure?

[James1979]

I'm pretty sure on this and I stand firmly on it. In 1 Corinthians 2:13 it says :

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

To come to truth in God's word we have to compare scripture with scripture in the light of the whole bible so we can come to truth.

[Jack101]

I have just finished listening to the Revelation mp3 download by Chuck Missler (at his website at khouse org) I found it extremely interesting and reccommend it to anyone who is even half serious about "the Book Of Revelation"

check it out

[daverain]

.



...


1 Corinthians 2:13 it says :



Which things also we speak, not in


the words which man's wisdom teacheth,


but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;






The -WE- is: -APOSTLES- who 'spoke by The Holy Spirit '


(believe them because of the 'signs and wonders' )...


While -ALL OTHERS-

(='bible interpreters') ,

speak in:

"words which man's wisdom teacheth"


(=No thank ye. )




P.i.C.




.

[James1979]

daverain,

Where do you think the apostles got their information from? Wasn't it from the Holy Spirit? When we read the bibles ourselves, that's God talking to us. Each book in the bible that has a person's names is the word of God. These people did not write these words with their own mind but as the Holy Spirit move them. Such as when people say" Paul says this, or Peter says this or so on. In reality it's what God had said because God is the one who decided what words he wanted to put in his bible. Whenever a book is written there are at times when the person did not have a complete understanding of what God was telling them such as Daniel and God said close up the book and knowledge will increase when it is search out by people who want to know truth and relying on the Holy Spirit to lead them.

[stryper36]

I don't see no pre-trib in Revelation.

I don't see any of Hal Lindsey's teaching coming to past.

I just see a bunch of pre-trib writers getting rich off of people's ignorance

IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND REVELATION; YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE BIBLE FIRST.