A serious question to be considered....

[Squirrel]

I am very serious when I ask this.....

I have noticed a few of the forums here that are set up for christians only.

I would like to ask for an area here at the forums that would be open only to the atheist members of this online community. A forum that we may have to ourselves, not bound to the policing that the other forums are bound to.
Now I am not suggesting a forum free from all rules, not in the least. But not subject to the mercy and whims of "christian" moderators. Not subject to a believer biased opinion as to what constitutes a TOS violation. Does this mean that atheists would have free rain to post porn or other inappropriate material? No. Profanity or vulgar topics? No, although what makes profanity can be subjective in many many ways.


A place where we may safely post amongst ourselves to discuss things that we see here at the board, and a place to make us feel a wee bit better welcome here. I know there are some that openly allow us to be here, and may in fact enjoy it. I also know there are some here who would like to see us go. I know of many atheist boards that have a christian only area set up, and the atheists accept and respect that area, and saty out.

Again I am asking you to consider setting up an area for the atheist members here at the forums.

[imagineer]

Evil Squirrel, unless you are thinking of converting, I dont see the point. Bear would never set it up, and we already have our own fortress.

[Erwin]

This site is called Christian Forums. The purpose of this site is located at the top of every page. It is specifically for Christians. The fact that some forums are open to atheists is an allowance I am making as owner of this site. There is no reason for me to have atheist forums on a Christian site at all. If you wish to have atheist-only forums, please join the many atheist forums that are available. Why come to a Christian Forums site?

I hope that is clear. :)

[Squirrel]

Well I thought as much. It would have been an awful decent showing of good will. But I keep forgetting about the either for, or against me attitude of the christian.

I think it would only benefit this place, and make it a better forum overall. But then, I do not own the place, and I am just an atheist... the enemy that is barely tolerated. I understand.

[bartleby]

Dear Dr. Erwin,
Whilst agreeing with everything you've said I feel duty bound to second Squirrel's proposal.
My reason's are as follows -
Whilst you are right to say that this is a Christian site I can't help feel there is a slight imbalnce in the the priveleges granted to theistic Christians with respect to those similarly granted to atheistic Christians. I feel, along with Squirrel, that the atheistic Christians would benefit from having a place of their own to discuss things free from interruption and distraction much like their theistic brethren have.
Thanks for your time.
bb

[psycmajor]

bartleby (is that what the "bb" stands for?)

Because this is called "the Christian forums," there are understandably more Christians than atheists here. That does not mean you guys are not welcome.

By the way, what's an "atheistic Christian"? I never heard of that! :scratch:

Evil Squirrel, if you are not a Christian, then you are visiting on our terms. The atmosphere is intended to be "Christian." You are not the enemy at all, we would just prefer to have you stick to some rules that maintain this atmosphere. It's okay to ask questions and ponder, just don't badger and abuse.

[Erwin]

Originally posted by Squirrel
I think it would only benefit this place, and make it a better forum overall. But then, I do not own the place, and I am just an atheist... the enemy that is barely tolerated. I understand.

You are not the enemy here. :)

I hope that atheists who visit this board do not come here with the feeling that Christians are their enemy. I certainly hope that Christians don't see atheists here as enemies too.

Originally posted by Bartleby

I feel, along with Squirrel, that the atheistic Christians would benefit from having a place of their own to discuss things free from interruption and distraction much like their theistic brethren have.

What is an atheistic Christian? This forum is specifically for Christians, who according to the definition we use here, are theistic.

[bartleby]

Dr. Erwin,
Thanks for your prompt reply. The mistake is doubtless mine as I'm new here and wasn't really sure which particular definition of Christianity was being endorsed. Is your definition located somewhere on the site as I haven't yet noticed it?
Thanks
bb

[GraftMeIn]

bartleby,
Christians believe in God, and we beleive that God sent Jesus to die for our sins. Athiests claim there is no God. What is being asked for here is a non-christian forum. We as christians gather here to talk about the word of God, and our experiences with him. We do not want to turn anyone away, there are places for athiests to post here, they are not exluded from the forums. To create a forum just for athiests would be like a church setting up a pulpit outside it's doors for someone to preach against the very thing the church believes in, and teaches. It's kind of like walking into a candy store and expecting them to serve you a steak. If they were to create an athiest forum they would no longer be able to call this site Christian Forums. I hope that kind of helps explain it.

Take care, and God Bless!

[psycmajor]

Originally posted by bartleby
Dr. Erwin,
Thanks for your prompt reply. The mistake is doubtless mine as I'm new here and wasn't really sure which particular definition of Christianity was being endorsed. Is your definition located somewhere on the site as I haven't yet noticed it?
Thanks
bb

As you can see at the top of the site, this place is non-denominational, meaning there are slight doctrinal differences between us. (http://www.pronetisp.net/~diana/denom.html) You'll find some Catholics sprinkled here, maybe a few Jews sprinkled there, and miscellaneous other people, such as yourself. :wave:

[Squirrel]

Originally posted by GraftMeIn
bartleby,
Christians believe in God, and we beleive that God sent Jesus to die for our sins. Athiests claim there is no God.

I am sorry but that is wrong. Atheists lack a belief in god, be it your god, or any other god. We make no claims that there is no "god."


What is being asked for here is a non-christian forum. We as christians gather here to talk about the word of God, and our experiences with him. We do not want to turn anyone away, there are places for athiests to post here, they are not exluded from the forums.

What we are asking for is an area that would set aside for the atheist members here. An area where we can talk amonst ourselves, and discuss things without the worry of one of the admins or mod taking upon himself the decide whether or to delete or edit or censor us. Even when kept civil there will be the odd mod that does not feel this post shoudl go through, and BAM edited, or what not, and you cannot even say anything about it. This does not promote a very good relationship with the people you say are welcome. The atheists are excluded from certain forums, certain one are clearly christians only.

To create a forum just for athiests would be like a church setting up a pulpit outside it's doors for someone to preach against the very thing the church believes in, and teaches. It's kind of like walking into a candy store and expecting them to serve you a steak. If they were to create an athiest forum they would no longer be able to call this site Christian Forums. I hope that kind of helps explain it.

It would still be christian forums. All you would have is an atheist only section, that would allow us to talk and fellowship, there would be no porn there would be no profanity, there would be no blaphemy or anything else of the like. The only difference there would be is that the mods would not go off and get over zealous with what they< feel is "wrong." You could have it set up so a christian and an atheist would moderate the place. Is it that hard to allow this to happen? It is that hard to allow the same respect to given to the atheists here? This would not become a den of vipers, but a place where the relations would have a chance to grow, and maybe develope like never before.... is this not worth a chance??

[Squirrel]

Originally posted by psycmajor
bartleby (is that what the &quot;bb&quot; stands for?)

Because this is called &quot;the Christian forums,&quot; there are understandably more Christians than atheists here. That does not mean you guys are not welcome.


We would feel a bit more welcomed if we had an area for us to come to, without the christians in constant lock step monitoring our posts.



Evil Squirrel, if you are not a Christian, then you are visiting on our terms. The atmosphere is intended to be &quot;Christian.&quot; You are not the enemy at all, we would just prefer to have you stick to some rules that maintain this atmosphere. It's okay to ask questions and ponder, just don't badger and abuse.

i know we visiting on your terms, but you can make it so your terms allow us a place of fellowship as well.

[Erwin]

Sorry, but what you are asking for will not happen here. To use an analogy, it is like going to a Car Enthusiasts Forums site and then requesting to have a separate forum within that site for Plane Enthusiasts. A Car Enthusiasts Forums is for car enthusiasts - just like a Christian Forums site is for Christians. If you as an atheist want to fellowship with other atheists and have your own forum rules, you can go to the many atheist forums around.

[Brimshack]

Squirel if you are looking for a site that treats unbelievers like the enemy, I'll be happy to PM you a site where you could justifiably charge them with all forms of hypocrisy.

This whole thread cracks me up.

[seebs]

I really don't think (most of the time) that there's any problem with the mods getting "overzealous" about what they feel is right or wrong here. I've seen a couple of people get warnings I thought were questionable - but not enough for it to be a big problem.

[Squirrel]

Sure Brim, send it my way... my.

I thought I would at least try to get the atheists an area of their own. Beating a dead horse I know.

I hate censorship of any form. But that matters little when you do not own the boat.

[psycmajor]

Originally posted by Brimshack
Squirel if you are looking for a site that treats unbelievers like the enemy, I'll be happy to PM you a site where you could justifiably charge them with all forms of hypocrisy.

This whole thread cracks me up.

Ha ha, EXCELLENT response, Brimshack. People whom you can't please any way you try it irritate the CRAP out of me. And then they say that WE'RE closeminded! :sick: :sick: :sick:

[Mr.Cheese]

Dude, I totally don't get you. It's Christian Forums.
It's like trying to join the corvette club when you own a mustang. You could join some type of hot rod or muscle car club that included many types of cars, you could join a mustang club. But joining a corvette club doesn't make any sense if you don't own a corvette. You may as well go to McDonalds and order a whopper. With that in mind, if CF is McDonalds, they at least offer to take Burger King's coupons.
I'm not going to go to an Athiest forum and demand a christian only area, and then get upset when they look at me funny.
You guys get quite a bit of say so and offer a lot of input on some of the topics here. CF is pretty generous.
This forum isn't here for you. Athiest forums aren't there for me. I'm sure there are some that let christians interact on their forums, but ultimately an Athiest forum is for Athiests. There's no disrespect there at all.
The webmaster lets you guys talk here.
What more can you ask for from a place called Christian Forums?
If the name implied something a little more pluralistic, I'd see your point.

[Squirrel]

Originally posted by Mr.Cheese
Dude, I totally don't get you. It's Christian Forums.

I have already said it was beating a dead horse, the horse is dead...
It's like trying to join the corvette club when you own a mustang. You could join some type of hot rod or muscle car club that included many types of cars, you could join a mustang club. But joining a corvette club doesn't make any sense if you don't own a corvette.

Look all I wanted to do was try and get atheists a small place on this forum where they would not be policed, is that hard to understand?



I'm not going to go to an Athiest forum and demand a christian only area, and then get upset when they look at me funny.

And who is upset? I am not in the least upset. If I was upset, I would trot off and not bother to come back here at all. Obviously I am not upset. My statements in regards to me hating censorship in amyform would be made any where to include atheist forums. Also I would do the exact same thing at an atheist forum if I was a christian. I would ask for a place for the christians to post and gather without fear or bothering or policing by the atheists, but it matters very little here, as the issue is a dead horse.

If the name implied something a little more pluralistic, I'd see your point.

How about I change my stance to that of an atheist christian? Would that then make it warranted? For the record, unless another has beatne me to this, or at least defined it differently, an atheist christian is one who follows the teachings of jesus without a belief in god, or more specifically, the moral and just teachings of jesus, without reference to the christian god, or any god.

[seebs]

It actually is pretty hard to understand; the "policing" that goes on is pretty much the same for everyone, in things like general apologetics. I don't see any point to having a special atheist section on a Christian board; it makes very little sense to me.

[Mr.Cheese]

Hey Squirrel,
I get your point now. I'm a little slow sometimes.

Thanks for being patient and not blowing a head gasket.

[psycmajor]

Squirrel,

I think that I can speak for most of the Christians here when I say this:

We do not see all religions or beliefs as equal.

Doesn't sound fair? There can only be one truth, not many. And we hold what Jesus says as true.

[kern]

Originally posted by Squirrel

an atheist christian is one who follows the teachings of jesus without a belief in god, or more specifically, the moral and just teachings of jesus, without reference to the christian god, or any god.

How is this possible, when so many of Jesus' teachings involve God? And do these "athiest christians" really follow *all* of the teachings (give up all your material possessions)?

-Chris

[Squirrel]

Originally posted by psycmajor
Squirrel,

I think that I can speak for most of the Christians here when I say this:

We do not see all religions or beliefs as equal.

This is obvious. And I think you can speak for a lot of the christians. Although I do know a few, not from here, that treat beliefs in a very different way.

Doesn't sound fair? There can only be one truth, not many. And we hold what Jesus says as true.

I am glad to read this statement, you "hold" this to be true. Thanks. When it is worded just like this, I can absolutely agree with you. You believe that the things jesus said was true, good. I do not "hold" the teachings of jesus to be the truth.

[Squirrel]

Originally posted by kern


How is this possible, when so many of Jesus' teachings involve God? And do these "athiest christians" really follow *all* of the teachings (give up all your material possessions)?

-Chris

Like I said,

"an atheist christian is one who follows the teachings of jesus without a belief in god, or more specifically, the moral and just teachings of jesus, without reference to the christian god, or any god."


But you bring up an excellent point, give up all my material possessions.... how many christians do you know that follow this teaching? How many christians do you know that follow ALL of the teachings of jesus? I could easily pick and choose the teachings I would follow, since being an atheist christian is a deeply personal thing. Smorgasbord christian in a sense. Or I could claim that jesus meant that only that rich man should have given up his possessions, since jesus sensed his attachment to them.

[Erwin]

This thread is turning into a discussion on things that belong in Apologetics. I am going to close this thread, since it has nothing to do with the original issue. You may continue this discussion in Apologetics if you wish.

Have a good day, everyone! :)