How to respond to negativity

[summerbreeze]

:groupray: I have had a lot of people decribe my church as a cult and it is hard for me muscle up a response that is not rude or byast? I attend Christ Church of the valley and as people are calling Christ Cult of the valley. It is now happening a lot due to large increase in the following. I love my church and it has changed my life. Just need help so that I can help others see what I see...:clap:

[heron]

Summerbreeze,
I had that experience. The church built into a big, active, life-consuming organism. People were there every day for some activity or another, and loved being there.

From the outside, people didn't understand why I had such a restrictive life. I held back from parties and shallow talk because I had a much deeper life at church.

Gradually, with the church growth, the pastor must have had a hard time keeping everyone on the same page, because he introduced more teachings on self-sacrifice, self-denial, submission to authority, correcting each other, and humility.

The church continued to grow. Individuals repeated these teachings to each other and tried to enforce them. I was uneasy about some of the teachings, and felt put down or controlled quite often, but justified it all by the teachings being based on specific scriptures.

By this time, my friends from other churches assured me this was a cult. I said "Of course not, this is a mainstream denomination." But we had an arrogance that other churches were simply not dedicated enough.

Looking back, it fit every definition that professionals use to identify a cult. Had it gone further, I can't say what happened.

Fortunately, God divided the church. Dare I say that? People started fighting over a building project, and many left for other churches. Others left Christianity, church attendance, life functionality, and reality. It was SO much God's grace. The passion for a perfect life fizzled, and we became normal humans again.

The church had made our decisions, been our social life, been our reason for living (we claimed God was). When it came time to decide for ourselves again, it was very difficult to wade through our fears and religiosity to get to a quick answer.

Years later, I got involved in another church that I was very excited about. It made the biggest impact on my spiritual health. The leaders started feeling like things were growing out of control, and started setting up more guidelines, and started teaching about respect for leadership, submission to authority....it became very controlling.

Members tried to warn the leaders, and the leaders slapped them down.

If you see volatility--sudden changes, excitement, unique and insightful teachings, fervor--you will probably see other signs of volatility--riskyness, new policies, unique and debatable teachings, and inner uneasiness.

I'm not trying to tell you the same things your friends do. I'm saying that many of the good teachings and practices of a church can be easily corrupted.

I run into old members now who still consider those the good old days. People will always have different experiences--this even happens within a small family.

What to do about it? Be a responsible member of society, and talk about the things that make you uneasy. Write letters to elders if you see something that doesn't seem right. Make things work. Protect what you love. Protect the people you love.

As quickly as a church could go off base, it can be pulled back to center.

Ask your friends for specifics, maybe a written list so you don't have to defend yourself at each point.


Thanks for plodding through my long post!

[heron]

Oh yeah, your question--how to get them to see its value?
It's hard to tell whether they're giving you flat mockery, or

1. Invite them to come see what it's like, maybe under the premise that they could give you specifics. If they attend other churches, suggest an exchange where you are willing to visit their church and talk about comparisons over lunch.

2. Change the subject. They should be able to see from the strength within you that it has given you life.

3. Give them a checklist of cult tendencies and ask them to check off ones they see. http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

4. Lead them to see that life is not so cut-and-dry. People will never find a perfect church, any more than they will seek out and impulsively join a suicide cult.


Remember that the Accuser will try to attack a good thing from every vulnerable angle he can.

[heron]

oops. I left something out:
Flat mockery, or a conservative opinion.

[WesWoodell]

I don't think she's asking how to identify a cult, she's asking how to defend her church from these attacks.

[Velcro]

Heron's answer is excellent. Here's mine. :)

I was born and reared in a church I now understand is a cult; however, I stayed in it for 50.5 years. I felt trapped there. (And remember, there is a difference between "feeling" trapped and actually being trapped.) Keeping it short, with regard to this, through the years, I knew they were wrong about certain things, but I passed these items off. However, during my final 14 years there, I knew they were dead-wrong about many things, but I felt trapped by (a) a new marriage to a member, (b) the fact that I had been taught from birth that other religious organization were inferior in one way or another to them, (c) I had been warned repeatedly that if I left, I would go to hell and take my children with me. However, during that final 14 years, I realized that they are a cult with some very serious issues.

This is my position: my first mother- and father-in-law attend there, as does my husband's father, and the only person who remained friendly after I was kicked out. I know that should they know I call their church a cult, it would hurt them deeply. Regardless, it was a cult, and people ought to be warned against that church. My silence could cause someone to be sucked into their organization.

I made my assessment that they were a cult by comparing them to a list like the one for which Heron gave the URL. It was a cult.

I suggest that you read the list and do some real consideration. I don't know anything about your church, so I would not attempt to say anything about it, but when I first was given the list, I saw that that church was a cult, according to the list, and passed it off. If you do that, you may regret it later, as I did.

How I regret keeping my children in that church! How I regret the time I wasted there, too!

[heron]

Velcro, I can't imagine the trauma of getting out of it after 50 years! It took me at least ten to sort out fact from fallacy after a 10-year corruption. (The church was very normal the few years before that.)


Summerbreeze, I still stand behind looking at specifics, and not the black and white title. Some of the signs of a great church are dedication, hyperactivity, self-sacrifice and creative insights...similar to the cult definition. They are also the signs of a Mother Theresa or a Joan of Arc.

The key is to keep close touch with God, and He will guide your path through any dark and bright spots.

A funny thing about the time I broke away--God kept leading me to read Jeremiah. I was so devastated at the time, that I just couldn't handle reading more condemnation. I apologized to God and asked if He wouldn't mind if I set this aside for a while.

Recently, while discussing with a friend a similar case of church abuse, he brought up several verses in the book of Jeremiah. It condemned the corrupt shepherds of the flocks, and the oppression of the people. I was floored. God had tried to comfort me with verses on justice and retribution, and I'd taken it personally.

[heron]

Summerbreeze,
I hope I wasn't implying your church is a cult. I know that some Christians are simply not comfortable with demonstrative services, or recognition of the supernatural, or whatever is different from theirs. And some friends just like to tease!

[Stinker]

:groupray: I have had a lot of people decribe my church as a cult and it is hard for me muscle up a response that is not rude or byast? I attend Christ Church of the valley and as people are calling Christ Cult of the valley. It is now happening a lot due to large increase in the following. I love my church and it has changed my life. Just need help so that I can help others see what I see...:clap:

A cult is actually an organization which claims it has a lock on salvation.

The church of Christ is a cult because it fits the definition. It claims that if anyone is to be saved, that they must be a member of this physical organization. It is not enough that a person is baptized by immersion 'unto the remission of sins' and becomes a member of a different church with a different name and practice, to them. For that newly baptized person sins by not partaking of the Lord's Supper with the correct elements and or not partaking it according to the frequency deemed scriptural to them, or that newly baptized person enters a church that worships with mechanical instruments, or lets women speak publicly or even preach, etc., etc., etc.

These newer types of Churches of Christ are definately a cult in that they major in accountability for each other.......in the absence of the love that members are supposed to have for each other. They only plant one congregation (or church) in each city, no matter how large that city is.

[christianmomof3]

Hi, is it the church in Peoria, AZ? I looked at the web site and it looks great to me. I guess to counter the cult issue, you have to know why people are calling it a cult. The group I meet with has been called a cult because many years ago someone published some parts of different messages out of context, put it together in a different way, and said that was our message. There was a lawsuit, and the original author won, but the reputation has hung around. It is a sad attack of the enemy that does this kind of thing where the Lord is growing.

[Amongst the Flock]

Just read Matthew 5, Jesus sermon on the mount. It talks about those who are blessed for doing acts of righteousness that are above and beyond the conformity or standards of this world. I know it is hard when you get persecuted but there is that old saying "Kill them with Kindness".

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets woh were befroe you. I know it sounds hard to do but if we can learn to swallow are personal pride which would tell us to take revenge and be arrogant back to them and just smile and tell them that you forgive them that those words and actions will drive them nuts and they won't understand how you can do it. We can't do it in the flesh but Jesus gives us the strength to do it in his name and for his glory.

Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere, hate what is evil, cling to what is good.

We can hate others sins of malice and slander towards us and our Savior but we have to still love them and let them know that.

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you, Bless and do not curse.

Once again kill them with kindness and they will be beside themselves. Return their sinful attitueds or comments with positive reinforcement and feedback.

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Whenever someone wrongs you with an evil act, forgive them at some point, even if you know you are right and they are wrong for Jesus will bless you for this. You can let them know that you don't appreciate what they said or did but forgive them anyway and do not hold any grudges. The devil is behind strife and arguing and we don't want to give him a foothold in our lives or let him defeat our witness to the world of how the Glory of Jesus has changed our lives and that we our here to represent him to the best of our ability so others can see his Glory through us.

Roman 8:37 In all these things we are more then Conquerors through him who loves us.

No matter if its the devil, his demons, or a living man that harms us as children of God we are protected and our more then Conquerors in his name. The name of Jesus that is above all powers and principalities.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else. There is no other name under heaven which is given to men by which we must be saved. That name is JESUS.

I hope that I have provided some good advice to help you deal with your situation.

ALL GLORY AND PRAISE TO THE PERFECTION OF THE HOLY TRINITY. :amen:

[Linux98]

I attend Christ Church of the valley and as people are calling Christ Cult of the valley. It is now happening a lot due to large increase in the following.

If this mission statement (http://www.ccvonline.com/about_us/what_we_believe.aspx) is similar to your church. Then it sure doesn't sound like a cult. Baptism by immersion, they sure don't say it is required for salvation. They just say it demonstrates faith and obedience. Nothing wrong with that.

My advice: say "We belive that you are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior who died and was physically resurrected by God on the third day. We also believe in the Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Then smile. :holy:

If they aren't happy after that...maybe they are in a cult.

[heron]

this mission statement (http://www.ccvonline.com/about_us/what_we_believe.aspx)
Agreed...then the persecutors you need to bless are those of us who appear to jump to negative conclusions! Sorry to get off on a tangent.

[Velcro]

From my point of view, if people (that's always a plural word) are saying that you are attending a cult, I believe you should check to see if they are right! People believed the church I was attending was a cult, but I was so enamored with the church that I did not check, to my chagrin.

If we are afraid to measure our places of worship against the list of the attributes of a cult, I think that is an inner warning of which we need to sit up and take notice. I would not attend a religious organization without first considering this list.

I don't see any of us jumping to any conclusions. We do not know her church, no matter what its mission and doctrine statements say. That church I attended looked great -- on paper.

[Tashie]

just dont let people put you down, we all hasve the right to beleive what we want. Just keep your head up and look to God!

[Velcro]

Now, I am sure, Tashie, that you did not intend your statement that "we all hasve the right to beleive what we want" to come off as it did. We really only have the right to believe as G-d drects us! :)