Complete trust in Christ

[jlujan69]

I'm thinking of the two different views of churches under the umbrella of Christiandom when it comes to salvation. One side states that both faith and works are necessary for salvation, while the other side insists that it's entirely by faith in Christ and that works come as a result of, not a prerequisite to salvation. Since I embrace the latter view, I was pondering the possibilities of the other side being wrong on this issue and still making Heaven their home. I realize that the other side could well imagine a scenario where I'm wrong, but I digress. Anyway, scenario number one is that this person, while not trusting only in Christ for his salvation, but insists on doing good works as well to meet the criteria, would be saved in spite of his error in this crucial matter. Another possibility I'm considering is that this person, believing that certain good works are necessary for salvation, will tend to have a mindset that, while trusting Christ to be his Savior, nevertheless, doesn't trust only in Christ but also in his own accompanying works. As a result of this, he hasn't truly trusted in Christ alone, sincere though he is, and is actually not saved. Opinions?

[Angel4Truth]

Consider this , why would the world need a savior , if they could be saved by following the law ? No one could follow it , no one could work their way to heaven , that is why we needed Christ to begin with .

The very works we work that are in anyway worthy of God are those performed by Him through us , we still get no credit.

[Shane Roach]

james 2:24

Seems to go against another verse almost diametrically doesn't it? I think the proper understanding though comes from perspective. It's not so much a denial that faith is what saves as it is a picture of exactly what the OP states without qualifying that it is faith that has to come first.

The works of the law do not save. Faith saves. However, if you have faith it seems to me that the Bible teaches rather explicitly that you WILL have works. If you have no works, you need to take account of your faith, I think is what the message is.

[dhiannian]

james 2:24

Seems to go against another verse almost diametrically doesn't it? I think the proper understanding though comes from perspective. It's not so much a denial that faith is what saves as it is a picture of exactly what the OP states without qualifying that it is faith that has to come first.

The works of the law do not save. Faith saves. However, if you have faith it seems to me that the Bible teaches rather explicitly that you WILL have works. If you have no works, you need to take account of your faith, I think is what the message is.
Also this verse is from a worldly perspective, meaning what good is it to say you have faith, yet manifest no Godly works to the world,
Who then would follow when you act as bad as they do.

However, If you are a christian you would have the Holy Spirit with you, and would as a result do what's right, NOT all the time though, We become a new creature, but our flesh can still win out if we ignore the Holy Spirit long enough, Believe me, I've been there.

[Shane Roach]

Also this verse is from a worldly perspective, meaning what good is it to say you have faith, yet manifest no Godly works to the world,
Who then would follow when you act as bad as they do.

However, If you are a christian you would have the Holy Spirit with you, and would as a result do what's right, NOT all the time though, We become a new creature, but our flesh can still win out if we ignore the Holy Spirit long enough, Believe me, I've been there.

Me too... Me too...

Discussions like this seem to lead inexorably to Once Saved Always Saved vs Backsliding issues. I see truth on both sides in this longstanding divide and I think it is largely a matter of miscommunication and perspective. If God knew us from before the foundation of the earth, then obviously we were saved once and for all. Still, from this perspective you call the worldly one, I think a person's experience of their own salvation is an unfolding one, and for those who are observing a person from the outside, we as human beings have no trustworthy insight as to whether that person is truly of the elect or not.

This is why I believe that our discipline in the church is always to be a simple matter of observing present behavior, avoiding false teachers and people who bahave in ways the Scripture indicates we should not associate with, but at all times be willing to associate again with such people if and when there is repentance. There is no judgement of the individual here, merely of their actions. We see what a person does and obey God to do as He has instructed when observing certain teachings or behaviors.

I hope this makes some sense at least.

[Edouard]

Faith vs. Works

Christ tells us in His own words the following:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul.
Book of John tells us, "If you love me you will obey me!"

First, you must love God!
Second, obey Christ and His teachings!

To be able to do either you must have faith.
Christ also said, "Blessed are they who believe and have not seen!"

Definition of Faith: belief in something unseen accompanied by action!
Faith calls us to act! Christ commands us to act!

The idea that a person is "once saved always saved" I leave this last thought!

Christ said, " there wil be many who will call my name ...but i tell you, I will say I do not know you.. "(paraphrase)

Edouard
May God bless you and give you wisdom!

[jangnim]

Faith vs. Works

Christ tells us in His own words the following:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul.
Book of John tells us, "If you love me you will obey me!"

First, you must love God!
Second, obey Christ and His teachings!

To be able to do either you must have faith.
Christ also said, "Blessed are they who believe and have not seen!"

Definition of Faith: belief in something unseen accompanied by action!
Faith calls us to act! Christ commands us to act!

The idea that a person is "once saved always saved" I leave this last thought!

Christ said, " there wil be many who will call my name ...but i tell you, I will say I do not know you.. "(paraphrase)

Edouard
May God bless you and give you wisdom!Great Answer.:)

[rural_preacher]

Don't forget about repentance (turning your back on sin). Repentance is an integral element in saving faith. You cannot become a follower of Jesus without turning your back on self, sin and the world.

The apostle John emphasized this a great deal in his gospel and in his first letter.

Unfortunately, I think many are led into a false hope by being told they can pray a "sinner's prayer" and everything will be okay.

Salvation is entirely a work of God's Grace, but that Grace results in repentance, faith and works which "God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

--

[jangnim]

Don't forget about repentance (turning your back on sin). Repentance is an integral element in saving faith. You cannot become a follower of Jesus without turning your back on self, sin and the world.

The apostle John emphasized this a great deal in his gospel and in his first letter.

Unfortunately, I think many are led into a false hope by being told they can pray a "sinner's prayer" and everything will be okay.

Salvation is entirely a work of God's Grace, but that Grace results in repentance, faith and works which "God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

--

Gee rural_preacher once again we agree. All is right in the universe.

[Shane Roach]

Valuable insights!

[Smidlee]

James 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Seems to go against another verse almost diametrically doesn't it? I think the proper understanding though comes from perspective. It's not so much a denial that faith is what saves as it is a picture of exactly what the OP states without qualifying that it is faith that has to come first.

The works of the law do not save. Faith saves. However, if you have faith it seems to me that the Bible teaches rather explicitly that you WILL have works. If you have no works, you need to take account of your faith, I think is what the message is.
In another word according to James faith is an action word. This is obviously by the example he used . Actually what did Abraham do? "believe God". This is also true with Love , it will produce action just like a fire produces heat.

[reformedfan]

I'm thinking of the two different views of churches under the umbrella of Christiandom when it comes to salvation. One side states that both faith and works are necessary for salvation, while the other side insists that it's entirely by faith in Christ and that works come as a result of, not a prerequisite to salvation. Since I embrace the latter view, I was pondering the possibilities of the other side being wrong on this issue and still making Heaven their home. I realize that the other side could well imagine a scenario where I'm wrong, but I digress. Anyway, scenario number one is that this person, while not trusting only in Christ for his salvation, but insists on doing good works as well to meet the criteria, would be saved in spite of his error in this crucial matter. Another possibility I'm considering is that this person, believing that certain good works are necessary for salvation, will tend to have a mindset that, while trusting Christ to be his Savior, nevertheless, doesn't trust only in Christ but also in his own accompanying works. As a result of this, he hasn't truly trusted in Christ alone, sincere though he is, and is actually not saved. Opinions?

I am with you, they need Christ if their view if Him is so flawed that their opinion is that His atoning death on the cross isn't enough to turn away God's wrath. Witness to them with "What is it that justifies a guilty sinner before God?"
My family is similarly involved in such a 'battle'.