Lutherans and the Eucharist

[St.Augustine]

Could you explain this in more detail please? :)

What is the benefit of such eating and drinking?

We are told in the words "for you" and "for the forgiveness of sins." By these words the forgiveness of sins, life and salvation are given to us in the sacrament, for where there is forgiveness of sins, there are also life and salvation.

[Protoevangel]

Could you explain this in more detail please? :):wave:
I think these verses explain that quote pretty well. Check out the context as well. If you are at work and don't have access to a Bible, try the biblegateway.com

Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

John 6:56
He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

[St.Augustine]

But I thought it was faith in Christ's that gave me forgiveness of sins not the eucharist?

[SPALATIN]

But I thought it was faith in Christ's that gave me forgiveness of sins not the eucharist?.


The Eucharist is a means of Grace. God has chosen different means of Grace throughout time. In the scriptures we find it in the Burning bush on Mt. Sinai and in the calm wind on Mt. Carmel. In the new testament we find it in the waters of Baptism and the Wine and Bread of Holy Communion and in the Confession/Absolution. These things by themselves are just visible elements but when the word of God is conjoined to them they become that means of Grace.

[St.Augustine]

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The Eucharist is a means of Grace. God has chosen different means of Grace throughout time. In the scriptures we find it in the Burning bush on Mt. Sinai and in the calm wind on Mt. Carmel. In the new testament we find it in the waters of Baptism and the Wine and Bread of Holy Communion and in the Confession/Absolution. These things by themselves are just visible elements but when the word of God is conjoined to them they become that means of Grace.

What do you mean by "Grace"?

[Protoevangel]

If you are asking if forgiveness and Salvation are possible without partaking of the Eucharist, of course it can. On the other hand, can one actively refuse the Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ without endangering their faith?

[Protoevangel]

What do you mean by "Grace"?In the loosest sense, grace is God's superabundant giving of what is good to us although we by no means deserve that good which is given.

[SPALATIN]

What do you mean by "Grace"?

Unconditional Love to us through faith in his son. If we remain in him, he said he will remain in us and that through him we have God's favor.

[St.Augustine]

So what do you mean by "imparting Grace" i.e. how does baptism/eucharist impart Grace?

[CrossWiseMag]

Holy Scripture makes a distinction between "salvation won" and "salvation delivered." Christ won salvation for us on the cross. But He hands it out to us through His "means of grace." These means are the ways He has promised to forgive us and save us. (After all, if there were no distinction here, we would all be "universalists," accepting that all are saved.)

We are saved by hearing His word, because He promised that in Scripture. We are washed clean and forgiven in baptism, because He promised that in Scripture. We are given forgiveness in the Lord's Supper, because He promised that in Scripture.

Can we theoretically be saved ONLY by hearing the Word, just like the thief on the cross? Yes. But we do have God's promises that He's offering us salvation, full and free, through the Word AND the Sacraments.

Even as a Lutheran, I confess that the distinction was lost on me for 30 years. I finally realized that baptism is not our work, but God's. The Lord's Supper is not our work, but God's. Just as "hearing the Gospel" is not something we get credit for, neither are baptism or the Lord's Supper credited to us.

It might help to think of it this way. God does not save us by "zapping" us. Even as unbelievers, God comes to us when we "hear the Word." That is a "means" through which he saves us. The other "means of grace," seen in that light, are simply other variations of the same thing: provisions by which God has promised to continue helping us to remain in Him and to "work out" our salvation. (And note that even this "working out" is something for which God gets the credit in Lutheran/Biblical theology.)

[St.Augustine]

Holy Scripture makes a distinction between "salvation won" and "salvation delivered." Christ won salvation for us on the cross. But He hands it out to us through His "means of grace." These means are the ways He has promised to forgive us and save us. (After all, if there were no distinction here, we would all be "universalists," accepting that all are saved.)

We are saved by hearing His word, because He promised that in Scripture. We are washed clean and forgiven in baptism, because He promised that in Scripture. We are given forgiveness in the Lord's Supper, because He promised that in Scripture.

Can we theoretically be saved ONLY by hearing the Word, just like the thief on the cross? Yes. But we do have God's promises that He's offering us salvation, full and free, through the Word AND the Sacraments.

Even as a Lutheran, I confess that the distinction was lost on me for 30 years. I finally realized that baptism is not our work, but God's. The Lord's Supper is not our work, but God's. Just as "hearing the Gospel" is not something we get credit for, neither are baptism or the Lord's Supper credited to us.

It might help to think of it this way. God does not save us by "zapping" us. Even as unbelievers, God comes to us when we "hear the Word." That is a "means" through which he saves us. The other "means of grace," seen in that light, are simply other variations of the same thing: provisions by which God has promised to continue helping us to remain in Him and to "work out" our salvation. (And note that even this "working out" is something for which God gets the credit in Lutheran/Biblical theology.)

I am sure hat it make sense to you now but I an afraid the distinction is still lost to me. :scratch:

[SPALATIN]

Holy Scripture makes a distinction between "salvation won" and "salvation delivered." Christ won salvation for us on the cross. But He hands it out to us through His "means of grace." These means are the ways He has promised to forgive us and save us. (After all, if there were no distinction here, we would all be "universalists," accepting that all are saved.)

We are saved by hearing His word, because He promised that in Scripture. We are washed clean and forgiven in baptism, because He promised that in Scripture. We are given forgiveness in the Lord's Supper, because He promised that in Scripture.

Can we theoretically be saved ONLY by hearing the Word, just like the thief on the cross? Yes. But we do have God's promises that He's offering us salvation, full and free, through the Word AND the Sacraments.

Even as a Lutheran, I confess that the distinction was lost on me for 30 years. I finally realized that baptism is not our work, but God's. The Lord's Supper is not our work, but God's. Just as "hearing the Gospel" is not something we get credit for, neither are baptism or the Lord's Supper credited to us.

It might help to think of it this way. God does not save us by "zapping" us. Even as unbelievers, God comes to us when we "hear the Word." That is a "means" through which he saves us. The other "means of grace," seen in that light, are simply other variations of the same thing: provisions by which God has promised to continue helping us to remain in Him and to "work out" our salvation. (And note that even this "working out" is something for which God gets the credit in Lutheran/Biblical theology.)



Perhaps an even cruder analogy might be in marriage. If a man and woman consummate their love on a constant basis the marriage should continue to get stronger, however, should they stop giving each other affection they are at risk in the marriage. The Sexual relationship is a mean of love for them in the context of marriage.

Should either withhold that from the other for any reason they are putting the relationship at risk. Now it is good for both to decide to break from it for a time, but not for too long as either may be tempted by outside forces.

So too God works through the Word and Sacraments instituted by himself and his son. These "means of grace" are to be taken with seriousness and solemnity in which they are offered. If we go too long without Communion we run the risk of great sin because we begin to lose our strength in Spirit to ward off the temptation.

Now I know that some reading this will say what about Paul's admonition that one remain single and be like him. Great if you can remain single and do God's work I commend you to go ahead, but in the same scripture Paul warns that if a man and woman burn in desire for one another they should marry rather than burn in perdition. Perhaps this is why the Catholics consider Marriage to be a sacrament because of the love that a Man and woman have for each other is given through a physical means.

[CrossWiseMag]

Don't worry about it too much. It was lost on me for a long time. Just keep reading the words of Scripture regarding baptism and the Lord's Supper. Note the promises attached to baptism and the Lord's Supper. The baptism language is especially rich. And when you come at it from a sacramental viewpoint, instead of seeing it as an "ordinance" we simply obey, things will fall into place -- when and where the Holy Spirit desires it to fall into place.