Should i mourn the loss of the pope?

[munchkinbabyamy]

Hi. I am 16 and a christian, non-denominational. Since the pope's passing, i have been wondering if i should be completely distraught by it. I am upset because he was such a leader for so many catholics, but i am not catholic, therefore i dont know how to respond. Any advice/info would be wonderful. Thanks so much! God Bless.:hug:

[NINGirl]

I'm not Catholic either, but I'm quite saddened by the loss. You don't need to be of the denomination to feel sorry that such a great leader has passed on. He's done some great things in his lifetime, but, he's with God now. :)

[Rich48]

I'm not Catholic either, but I'm quite saddened by the loss. You don't need to be of the denomination to feel sorry that such a great leader has passed on. He's done some great things in his lifetime, but, he's with God now. :)

Good post!:thumbsup:

[CWLite]

Well yeah, we all should care, for the pope was a fellow believer. We are to care and mourn over our fellow brother and sisters in Christ, knowmatter the denomination. I am sadned by his passing for he was a good leader and advicator of peace, but I am also sadned that many loyal followers rever him more than the God he served. The pope will recieve his reward in heaven, praise God.

[New_Wineskin]

Hi. I am 16 and a christian, non-denominational. Since the pope's passing, i have been wondering if i should be completely distraught by it. I am upset because he was such a leader for so many catholics, but i am not catholic, therefore i dont know how to respond. Any advice/info would be wonderful. Thanks so much! God Bless.:hug:

Whatever you are feeling now is fine . No need to work something up .

[Chief117]

Well, remember that Jesus says that we are to mourn with those who mourn.

Many of us are in similar positions, and whereas I feel no connection like many Catholics (and others) do, I nonetheless mourn with them. The Pope can be viewed as a shepherd, and no doubt he led many men to Christ.

To all Catholics out there, know that we are mourning with you. All love and peace be with you in the name of Jesus Christ, God's Son. Amen.

[StephanieD]

Well yeah, we all should care, for the pope was a fellow believer. We are to care and mourn over our fellow brother and sisters in Christ, knowmatter the denomination. I am sadned by his passing for he was a good leader and advicator of peace, but I am also sadned that many loyal followers rever him more than the God he served. The pope will recieve his reward in heaven, praise God.
I have also wondered the role of the pope and wonder why he is revered in such a way. I have asked this question in the Catholic forum as well and hope to obtain some more knowledge about the Catholic faith.

[StevenL]

I saw the pope on TV the other night with a fish hat on his head, then a CROWN on his head, and then with a white DOVE over his head....and I said to myself....what the heck is this?

[Serving4Christ]

Even on his death bed, the Pope gripped and snuggled up to the Crucifix. I will mourn the loss of anyone who embraces my Savior.

[Simonline]

I saw the pope on TV the other night with a fish hat on his head, then a CROWN on his head, and then with a white DOVE over his head....and I said to myself....what the heck is this?

The 'fish hat', as you refer to it, is a bishop's mitre signifying that he is a bishop within the Roman Church, specifically the bishop of Rome itself.

The crown is the symbol of both the spiritual and temporal authority which the Roman Church claims is vested in the pope. The fact that the Roman Church has combined both spiritual authority and temporal authority into one (the joining together of Church and State - known as 'Christendom') is contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures. The very concept of a Vatican (city) State with the Pope as the political 'head of state' and papal legates as his ambassadors with one in [nearly?] every state throughout the world as well as every international organisation (the UN, EU, etc.) is completely contrary to the clear teachings of the Bible. [See: Kingdoms In Conflict - An Insider's View Of Politics, Power And The Pulpit by Charles Colson and Ellen Santilli Vaughan http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310397715/103-2529697-0246229 ]

Indeed, the very issue of what is the final basis of authority in all matters of faith and doctrine (the Scriptures or the Church?) is the main issue that divides all Protestants from the Roman Church.

Presumably then, the dove is symbolic of the Holy Spirit?

Simonline.

[BarbB]

Even on his death bed, the Pope gripped and snuggled up to the Crucifix. I will mourn the loss of anyone who embraces my Savior.

Me too! :cry:

[Debi1967]

Well yeah, we all should care, for the pope was a fellow believer. We are to care and mourn over our fellow brother and sisters in Christ, knowmatter the denomination. I am sadned by his passing for he was a good leader and advicator of peace, but I am also sadned that many loyal followers rever him more than the God he served. The pope will recieve his reward in heaven, praise God.
CW Lite
If you see someone that reveres him more than God himself than please let us know as that is not true Catholic Christian teaching or Worship... He is not God, merely His instrument... If it were not for God he would not even exist, to help us to begin with though.

The Lord on High to us is everything... trust me on this one. We show reverence to a Great Leader though... at that you are right. The Holy Father to us is someone that has touched us in many ways Spiritually with the words of Wisdom he imparted..

I am touched at the outpouring of Love and Charity that has been shown by so many... It makes my heart glad to see... Peace be with all of you, and many Blessings

Pax Christi
Debi

[vrunca]

Thank you all so much for your words of comfort, I can't even begin to explain how much this means to all of us who are feeling rather like orphans right now. We will get a new "Papa", but we still mourn for ourselves, because we have to wait to be with our very loved Pope John Paul II. Your prayers and support are so much appreciated though!! God bless you all brothers and sisters!!

[Simon_Templar]

"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted."

[constance]

Mourn with those who cry, rejoice that his suffering is over and that whatever our differences on earth, he now has his reward. Pray for those who will choose the new pope - that the new leader will be wise and will continue to bridge the gap between Catholics and ecumenical protestants.

Certainly there is room for reform, but this isn't the time for potshots. For those of us who continue to point out the flaws with Catholic Polity, I gently recommend you take a moment to compare your own church/denominational structure against the Bible and recognize that even if you can do it to your own satisfaction that other people may have a very different requirement.

Constance

[asjs1206]

I am a former Catholic and I still mourn the loss of the pope-Even if you are not Catholic you should mourn the Pope as you would mourn the loss of anyone else who was or is a christian brother. The pope did many great things for the Catholic church and will be greatly missed. I myself am very saddened at his passing

[CWLite]

CW Lite
If you see someone that reveres him more than God himself than please let us know as that is not true Catholic Christian teaching or Worship... He is not God, merely His instrument... If it were not for God he would not even exist, to help us to begin with though.

The Lord on High to us is everything... trust me on this one. We show reverence to a Great Leader though... at that you are right. The Holy Father to us is someone that has touched us in many ways Spiritually with the words of Wisdom he imparted..

I am touched at the outpouring of Love and Charity that has been shown by so many... It makes my heart glad to see... Peace be with all of you, and many Blessings

Pax Christi
Debi

What I said was not a generalization of Catholic Christians, but an observation. I have been to other countries and even my own, and I have seen things. Thats all. You are obviously not one of those, and praise God for that. Just want to clear up any misunderstanding. Peace.

[Debi1967]

What I said was not a generalization of Catholic Christians, but an observation. I have been to other countries and even my own, and I have seen things. Thats all. You are obviously not one of those, and praise God for that. Just want to clear up any misunderstanding. Peace.
Thank you ....

I appreciate your words very much ... I want you to knmow though that if you see someone that is Catholic here that comes across that way and I am online at the time PM me right away so that I can see it and deal with the person .... We have enough to battle all the time without those that are not properly Catechized misrepresenting things...

I mean that in sincerity ....

With Peace and Love to you Brother
Debi

[Benedicta00]

The pope was ‘pope’ ("papa") to all in his heart not just to Catholics; he welcomed all people of all religions and all people of faith.

It's normal even if you are not Catholic and do not understand why we honor the man- for you to feel loss. He manifested Christ's love to the entire world, to Catholics and non-Catholics and even non-Christians. What we loved about him was Christ who lived in him- reaching out to all with the love of God, it was Christ in him, the reason why so many around the world was drawn to the man and of course as with any true man of God we will feel a sense of loss when he goes on to be with the Lord.

Please pray for the cardinals in Rome now who will prayerfully elect our next pope- they need your prayers that they will hear the voice of Christ and follow it as they elect our next shepherd. We pray that he will also be a gift to the whole world, not just Catholics as this pope was.

If you have any questions about why Catholics do what the do, please do not hesitate to ask.

[PromiseSeeker]

I'm sorry that he died......... I'm not a Catholic, but I realize he was really "something" to the Catholic people......... To me, he was just a man that has unfortunatly died, but what really matters is~ Was he saved? Did he give HIS heart to the Lord Jesus?

[~Heavens_Bride~]

I'm sorry that he died......... I'm not a Catholic, but I realize he was really "something" to the Catholic people......... To me, he was just a man that has unfortunatly died, but what really matters is~ Was he saved? Did he give HIS heart to the Lord Jesus?

Can you judge his heart? No! Only God can do that...but we can go by what his fruits were. Although i disagree with many doctinal points...I feel safe in saying and believing the Pope loved Jesus Christ with all that he was. Like the previous poster said...he clung to his crucifix while passing...no one that dislikes or does not 'know' Christ would do that. I dont think so anyway.

I believe he was a man of God. One picture of him sent me to tears...you have all probably seen it, it is a simple picture with his head bowed (you see only his thinning hairline) and his hands clasped on his head in deep prayer. It was humbing to see. And I felt as if God was saying to me through that picture flashed ont eh tv screen, 'Yes, he is one of mine'.

So that is where I sit. I am sorry to all of you who are mouring.

[Benedicta00]

I'm sorry that he died......... I'm not a Catholic, but I realize he was really "something" to the Catholic people......... To me, he was just a man that has unfortunatly died, but what really matters is~ Was he saved? Did he give HIS heart to the Lord Jesus?
Yes, he was “saved” if the criteria is accepting Christ as Lord and savior and giving one's heart to Him… he was very much saved if that’s the case.

But besides this, we honor his memory because he did great things that anyone, Catholic or other can freely recognize. He played a primary role in the fall of communism and for that his memory should be honored.

[PromiseSeeker]

Can you judge his heart? No! Only God can do that...

Nor do I even desire to! :eek: What I posted was fact. In the end that's ALL that really matters~ whether we had a personal relationship with Jesus. :)

[Debi1967]

Nor do I even desire to! :eek: What I posted was fact. In the end that's ALL that really matters~ whether we had a personal relationship with Jesus. :)
It is said that "you shall know them by their fruits"

[9-iron]

Whatever you are feeling now is fine . No need to work something up .

:D Ah political correctness.

[Spawn]

I do not morn him. I celebrate his life, his message and that he now resides with Christ in heaven.

[Jillymac]

That's what i was thinking. The Pope was obviously a great man of God having done many good things in his life time.
I saw thousands of Catholics crying and crying and many, although feel close to Him have never met him or come close to meeting him. I see him as a man, as a very popular leader of the Catholic church and because of what we believe and that all believers shall be in heaven, should those who mourn not be celebrating that He is now in heaven with our awesome God?

I am not criticising at all, please i don't mean to offend, it's just that I don't hold any human as highly as the Roman Catholics do with the Pope and all i'm trying to do is understand the Catholic faith, when a person enters the Catholic faith, what are they taught with regards to the Pope?

As i said before, i mean no offense to anyone, there is of course a time for mourning but I was taken aback at how many were so distraught at the news of his death and i am only trying to understand how much the Pope means to a person of the Roman Catholic faith.

Jilly

[Canada_Girl]

Nor do I even desire to! :eek: What I posted was fact. In the end that's ALL that really matters~ whether we had a personal relationship with Jesus. :)when it comes to matters of faith, n'est pas? To know JPII is to love him. He was agaph love personified, as close to God as any human could possibly be. If you'd like to know more about the heart of this pope, I'd recommend you read his books. There have also been a few biographies written about his life. If you have any doubts about this man's relationship with God, you won't once you get to know him and see how the Holy Spirit moved through him and spoke through him.

One last word...he has done more to unify the Church, not just Roman Catholics, but also Eastern Orthodox and Protestants, by reaching out to all in conciliation. He was the greatest witness for the love of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God in the world--more than any other religious leader anywhere. The holiness of JPII was tangible. He was fearless in the face of evil. He was humble in apologizing for the Church's sins in history (the the slaughter of heretics during the Inquisition, and words and deeds against the Jews). I could go on. I love him and I'll miss him. But I know he is rejoicing in the presence of God and singing with the angels!

[bogie]

I will join in the mourning of the Pope, I am not catholic but I understand that the loss of any leader is hard. Regardless if it's the pope or a pastor, they are both used by God in much the same ways which is to lead people to the truth.

Bogie:prayer: :hug:

[Utah Knight]

I will join in the mourning of the Pope, I am not catholic but I understand that the loss of any leader is hard. Regardless if it's the pope or a pastor, they are both used by God in much the same ways which is to lead people to the truth.

Bogie:prayer: :hug:

:amen: i agree with you

[Debi1967]

That's what i was thinking. The Pope was obviously a great man of God having done many good things in his life time.
I saw thousands of Catholics crying and crying and many, although feel close to Him have never met him or come close to meeting him. I see him as a man, as a very popular leader of the Catholic church and because of what we believe and that all believers shall be in heaven, should those who mourn not be celebrating that He is now in heaven with our awesome God?

I am not criticising at all, please i don't mean to offend, it's just that I don't hold any human as highly as the Roman Catholics do with the Pope and all i'm trying to do is understand the Catholic faith, when a person enters the Catholic faith, what are they taught with regards to the Pope?

As i said before, i mean no offense to anyone, there is of course a time for mourning but I was taken aback at how many were so distraught at the news of his death and i am only trying to understand how much the Pope means to a person of the Roman Catholic faith.

Jilly
We mourn the absence left behind in by the fact that he is no longer present with us in human form....

We mourn out of fear I guess, because it means change to us.. We are afraid. For a great deal of us he was instrumental in taking away that fear. We are still human and still do fall prey to human failing in that.

To the majority of us he was more than just a man but someone that we regarded as part of our family, the word Pope=papa... So to some of us it is just like that losing someone very close to you. It also has to do with our beliefs that he was infallible when it came to matters of Doctrine and Morals when talking "Ex Cathedra"... and the fact that we believe in a Hierarchcal Society within the Church. So we have been just left void of the one Spiritual Leader ... the Holy Father that Christ uses as His advocate to the Church and it's lay faithful, through the Holy Spirit.

We must then after our period of Mourning is over turn our attentions to the prayer necessary to help the Conclave in their Wisdom to listen to the Holy Spirit themselves, in choosing the successor. When the Successor is announced and comes out to greet us in the Vatican Square we will again be whole as a Church and rejoice with Him at His appointment.

Although we miss the physical presence of the Holy Father and we grieve for that... We grieve in the manner that Christ himself said is appropriate when He himself with Lazarus' wife cried for the loss of him... and yet at the same time knew that Lazarus was indeed safe... we do know that because of the Grace of God and because of JPII's endurance even unto the end, that the Hope od Salvation promised is His and that He is with the Lord, in that we do rejoice...

I hope that I have offered a bit more understanding to you.

Pax Christi
Debi

[Benedicta00]

That's what i was thinking. The Pope was obviously a great man of God having done many good things in his life time.
I saw thousands of Catholics crying and crying and many, although feel close to Him have never met him or come close to meeting him. I see him as a man, as a very popular leader of the Catholic church and because of what we believe and that all believers shall be in heaven, should those who mourn not be celebrating that He is now in heaven with our awesome God?

I am not criticising at all, please i don't mean to offend, it's just that I don't hold any human as highly as the Roman Catholics do with the Pope and all i'm trying to do is understand the Catholic faith, when a person enters the Catholic faith, what are they taught with regards to the Pope?

As i said before, i mean no offense to anyone, there is of course a time for mourning but I was taken aback at how many were so distraught at the news of his death and i am only trying to understand how much the Pope means to a person of the Roman Catholic faith.

Jilly
We don’t reverend him more than we would God, he was the head of our Church and as such we want to show him the love and honor he is due so we make gestures of our love for the man.

For me, I follow the teachings of Christ to the point of sometimes it being hard because to follow Christ can lead to suffering and persecutions. When I felt tempted to give up and live for me, or whenever I was under the attack of the enemy to think only a fool would seek blessings in the world to come, it was the reinforcement of the Holy Father’s preaching Christ crucified and his own example of holiness that helped me keep my eyes focused on Christ and not on myself.

As far as crying is concerned, we cry because we miss him and he is gone from us. Personally it is hard to image never watching the news or EWTN and seeing him give his Wednesday audience or Sunday blessing to he crowds again- to never watch him canonize another saint, to never hear him speak as he travels around the world.

It is a sense of loss we feel because we loved this particular pope very much, he was so good and if he was this good I can only image how good Christ was when he walked amoung us. We take great comfort believing he is with the Lord and he gives me courage to keep the faith so I too can meet the Lord as well someday. He is still with us as he always has been in spirit but we do feel the pain of separation between this world and the next- It is a perfectly normal feeling- one of the sad realties of our fallen nature- we will mourn but we will also be comforted.

We have great hope and comfort knowing we are one Body in Jesus.

[ZACTAK]

I'm not Catholic and I am saddened by Pope John Paul II's passing.

[Jillymac]

Thank you for the explanations. I am now clearer on how you feel about the Pope. He did many good deeds for many people.
I noticed you called JPII Holy Father (human form). I have recently just read this verse and i wondered how you would interpret it.

Matthew 23:8-9
8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

This was regarding church leaders. I'm unsure if this should be in another thread but i wondered what your view would be considering John Paul II calling him not just father but "Holy Father". Personally I consider God to be the only Holy Father but i understand different faiths have different titles, it's just this verse seemed rather poignant with regards to the title you give him.

Jilly

[Debi1967]

Sometimes we must be careful with how we see that which we interpret one way and then when put back into context is actually another...

This was Jesus criticizing the Scibes and Pharisees specifically, as at the time they did not have the right to be called such things for they were hypocrites for doing so.

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πατήρ
patēr
pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a “father” (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.
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Mat 23:32 Fill ye up4137, 5210 then2532 the3588 measure3358
of your5216 fathers.3962

I want you to notice the last Matthew 23:32 as he was not talking of them but of the fathers of old, the very ones that they were indeed dishonoring when they were saying that they were honoring them.

Mat 24:4 And2532 Jesus2424 answered611 and said2036 unto them,846Take heed991thatno3361man5100deceive4105you.
5209

Mat 24:5For1063many4183shallcome2064in
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4183

This is the beginning of the very next chapter, as when he left the temple he went to the mount of Olives to then speak to his Faithful....

Also I want you to take notice that it is a l;iteral translation of the word Pope which equals Papa which means to is the head of our family on earth, not in the Heaven... There is a great Difference in this... the Poep is a man human and although we believe infallible in very few things when speaking ex cathedra, otherwise very fallible... the Pope is born then he dies, none of this ensures him that he will not err or that he will not feel pain or anything else that other humans feel ...

Understand too that when you call someone Pastor although it is a different name it has the same meaning.

father
n 1: a male parent (also used as a term of address to your
father);
2: the founder of a family; "keep the faith of our forefathers"
[syn: forefather, sire]
3: `Father' is a term of address for priests in some churches

Pastor \Pas"tor\, n. [L., fr. pascere, pastum, to pasture, to
feed. Cf. Pabulum, Pasture, Food.]
1. A shepherd; one who has the care of flocks and herds.
2. A guardian; a keeper; specifically (Eccl.), a minister having the charge of a church and parish.


And if your theory stands the way it is then we should not even be able to call our own father that... as in the one's that participated in the act that made us....

We certainly must be careful to take into consideration the whole of context of the whole chapter of Matthew 23 and it's real comdemnation of the Pharisees and Scribes and why THEY were being called out at the time. they did not have the right as they were hypocrites....

[Jillymac]

I wasn't speaking about our paternal fathers, i believe them alone to be our human fathers and that is a totally separate issue from fathers in a spiritual sense. That is not the way in which my interpretation of the verse was leading. I took the verse to be within the belief system.
I would never deny the meaning of the word "Pope" meaning "Papa" and acting as a father to the Roman Catholic church. However i have not seen the word "Pope" in my bible, and i presume it was derived in the Roman Catholic church many many years ago.

In my opinion, i do not believe anyone here on earth is deserving enough for the title "Holy Father" other than God himself.
I also believe there is only one "Holy Father". The church is seen as the family of Christ and there is only one "Father" of the church and He is God.

We are to call church family members as "brothers" and "sisters" but i do not believe it says that church leadership are to be called "Father" especially not "Holy Father". A "Pastor" is someone who spiritually guides his flock, emotionally he may feel like a father to some, but spiritually he acts as a guide and teacher.

I guess i just believe that the title "Father" is a position that only God can fill, in the spiritual sense.

And i guess that's just one of many issues that differ between denominations.

Jilly

[Benedicta00]

Jill,

Jesus was referring to not using the term 'father' in a different sense. He was referring to the ancestry of Abraham and Moses. The Jews would say to Jesus that their father is Moses. They did not know God as father, so Jesus said to them, ‘call no man father you have one in heaven who is you father.’ In the bigger picture of things, it refers to salvation being for everyone, not just the ancestry of the Jewish people... as we know God is father to all, not just the Jews.

We do not confuse the two, Heavenly Father and Holy Father. It is setting up a false dichotomy to say there has to be one or the other. We can and do have both, and we do not give any worship to our Holy Father and we only worship our Heavenly Father. We know who is who and who gets what. Our reverence for the Holy Father does not detract from our worship of God.

As far as the terminology not being in the bible, well the terminology for the Holy Trinity isn’t in there either but we know the trinity is both holy and biblical but not clearly taught, one must read the bible in context to see the beautiful teaching that is present.

The holy office of St. Peter is also biblically based but one has to read in context to see it. Jesus established a Church on the Rock of St. Peter and gave him keys to “open and shut” See Matthew 16 and then Isaiah 22: 17-24 to read the parallel Jesus was quoting. In Matthew 16 he promised the gates of hell would never over take the Church and on the shores before he ascended in John’s gospel, he said to Peter, “Feed my sheep, feed my lambs, feed my sheep… I’m not leaving you orphans I will be with you all till the end of time.” Read again Isaiah 22 to see this parallel, of Jesus quoting Isaiah, ‘girding ‘Peter to do this job Jesus is leaving him with.

As Jesus takes His ‘seat’ at the right hand of power in heaven, he leaves Peter on earth to represent this one and only ‘seat’ that governs us through the chair of Peter.

For this reason, because Jesus instituted it- it is by this virtue a holy office- he pope is merely a instrument in the hands of God. Jesus runs the Church not the pope.

The man who occupies the Holy seat of Peter can very much be unholy and that would matter in the respect he will cause much scandal by his sins, not by his teaching a incorrect faith. We would not give any honor to a man who did this, but the office can not be destroyed because the office itself is protected by the Holy Spirit. We will always honor the office.

That is why we call it a Holy office and any priest who occupies it is our Holy Father, it’s a title, not necessarily a description of who holds the office although John Paul ll lived up to his title.

Over 2000 years and 264 popes we have only had maybe 4 or 5 ‘bad’ popes who sinned publicly but never advocated any incorrect teaching, they just did not practice the faith they taught but did not teach a incorrect faith and John Paul ll was certainly not one of them. We love our Holy Father because he deserves to be loved. What we love about him is Christ who lived in him. He manifested the love of Jesus Christ.

He was a champion of the human person and stood for the peace and justice of Jesus Christ to everyone, Catholics and non Catholics alike. He was everyone’s pope as he represented Christ everywhere he went. To communist countries, to oppressed countries, to non-Christian countries. He brought Christ with him everywhere he went and was unashamed and unafraid- this pope did not care who he talked to or in the presence of, he spoke the truth in love and was unafraid to do so and watered nothing down. His motto for us all was “Be not afraid.” He was meaning be not afraid to be Christians in the word today.

He stood for Christ and he did a great job in doing that so we honor him but we praise and worship our Heavenly Father alone, We thank him and praise His Holy name for raising up John Paul ll and granting him the special graces necessary to do His will.

I hope that better helps and I appreciate your trying to understand us better, not just rash judging us.

Thank you and God bless.

[Telrunya]

Well I would say there is no need to be "completely distaught". I think that everyone, including protestants feel saddened by the Pope's passing. He was a great leader who touched countless lives for Jesus. We all mourn but we don't mourn like those who have no hope. We know that all those who believe that Jesus died for their sins, accept that great loving sacrifice by asking for forgiveness, and confess that he is Lord will be saved. Pope John Paul was suffering from many afflictions at the end of his life, but now he doesn't know suffering any more. Every tear he has had, has been wiped away. I thank God for sending this man to us and showing us the love he had for the world and I rejoice that he is home with the Father.

[cbk]

If you believe he was NOT saved; mourn the loss of his opportunity.

If you believe he was SAVED and that he let Jesus's light shine; mourn the loss of what he could have done in the future; yet, celebrate his entering into glory.

So, maybe it's not as much IF, but WHY you should mourn.

[Benedicta00]

Well I would say there is no need to be "completely distaught". I think that everyone, including protestants feel saddened by the Pope's passing. He was a great leader who touched countless lives for Jesus. We all mourn but we don't mourn like those who have no hope. We know that all those who believe that Jesus died for their sins, accept that great loving sacrifice by asking for forgiveness, and confess that he is Lord will be saved. Pope John Paul was suffering from many afflictions at the end of his life, but now he doesn't know suffering any more. Every tear he has had, has been wiped away. I thank God for sending this man to us and showing us the love he had for the world and I rejoice that he is home with the Father.
Amen, we thank you for this.

[Canada_Girl]

Beautiful tribute, shelb5. This reminded me of someting I read in the National Post pages earlier this week...He was a champion of the human person and stood for the peace and justice of Jesus Christ to everyone, Catholics and non Catholics alike. He was everyone’s pope as he represented Christ everywhere he went. To communist countries, to oppressed countries, to non-Christian countries. He brought Christ with him everywhere he went and was unashamed and unafraid- this pope did not care who he talked to or in the presence of, he spoke the truth in love and was unafraid to do so and watered nothing down. His motto for us all was “Be not afraid.” He was meaning be not afraid to be Christians in the word today. ...that even the Islamic media, Al-Jezeera and Al-Arabya, are mourning JPII's passing with tributes for his peace-making efforts in the Middle East. When I read this I thought, there is no other man who has been so embraced by so many across all boundaries of politics and religion. And as you stated Shelb, I concur that it was the love of Jesus Christ demonstrated through him that the world fell in love with. We can only pray that his successor be worthy of his shoes and staff.

[Benedicta00]

Beautiful tribute, shelb5. This reminded me of someting I read in the National Post pages earlier this week...He was a champion of the human person and stood for the peace and justice of Jesus Christ to everyone, Catholics and non Catholics alike. He was everyone’s pope as he represented Christ everywhere he went. To communist countries, to oppressed countries, to non-Christian countries. He brought Christ with him everywhere he went and was unashamed and unafraid- this pope did not care who he talked to or in the presence of, he spoke the truth in love and was unafraid to do so and watered nothing down. His motto for us all was “Be not afraid.” He was meaning be not afraid to be Christians in the word today. ]...that even the Islamic media, Al-Jezeera and Al-Arabya, are mourning JPII's passing with tributes for his peace-making efforts in the Middle East. When I read this I thought, there is no other man who has been so embraced by so many across all boundaries of politics and religion. And as you stated Shelb, I concur that it was the love of Jesus Christ demonstrated through him that the world fell in love with. We can only pray that his successor be worthy of his shoes and staff.


Thank you, and many don't get why the pope did go to the Jews, to the Mosques... because it is love not preaching that can pierce the hearts of the most harden.

He reminds me of how Jesus must of been when he walk among us. Like a gentile giant almost- never afraid to speak the truth about Christ to anyone in any part of the land but treated everyone with gentleness and humility. If Jesus walked today, he would go to those who need him the most. When I saw there passion for the first time I was in awe of how Mel Gibbon portrayed Jesus has looking at everyone, even those who were killing him with such great love.

This is what I saw in JP. He loved with Christ’s love for mankind as if Christ was walking among us now. He did what I think Christ would do if he were here to do it.

One of the most touching things he use to do was kiss the ground as he got of his plane, he said he was kissing God’s beautiful earth. Whatever part of the world he was in his loved it because God created it.

[Col]

People die every day, every death is sad for those who are left behind and were close to to one who has passed. As such we mourn for those we knew, loved or who may have touched our lives.
So in answer to the OP, personally, I would have to say that I don't feel the need to mourn this man's death.

[AscendNetwork]

BTW Pope John Paull II was born again and received the Baptism of the HS as a young Bishop through the preaching of Father John Bertalucci who wrote a book about the Baptism of the Spirit for Catholics. He was very inclusive of protestant churches in his leadership of the Catholic church and even made statements that you dont have to convert to Catholicism to know God personally.

[Benedicta00]

People die every day, every death is sad for those who are left behind and were close to to one who has passed. As such we mourn for those we knew, loved or who may have touched our lives.
So in answer to the OP, personally, I would have to say that I don't feel the need to mourn this man's death.
Nothing John Paul ll did touched you in any way??

Pope aside, Catholicism aside, Christianity itself aside (if you will)… the fall of Communism did not leave any impression on you?

[Brother_Justin]

Personaly not Catholic. I am on the other hand a peace keeper and have ALOT of respect for this man. I actualy went to my local Catholic church on the Sunday after the death to show my support.

John Paul II will hopefully be made a saint in the tradition of the Catholic church. And I sincerely hope that he will be John Paul II The Great down through history.

I cannot thank the Catholic Church enough for having such a beutifull leader as their Pope, and sharing him with all the world so that he could touch our hearts.

God bless you all!!



Love brother ~Justin~ :prayer:

[gtsecc]

Col, was +++John Paul not the single most influential Christian on the planet for the last 26 years?

[Debi1967]

Personaly not Catholic. I am on the other hand a peace keeper and have ALOT of respect for this man. I actualy went to my local Catholic church on the Sunday after the death to show my support.

John Paul II will hopefully be made a saint in the tradition of the Catholic church. And I sincerely hope that he will be John Paul II The Great down through history.

I cannot thank the Catholic Church enough for having such a beutifull leader as their Pope, and sharing him with all the world so that he could touch our hearts.

God bless you all!!



Love brother ~Justin~ :prayer:
Be Blessed .... Brother Justin ... Your sentiments and thoughts are much appreciated ...

Pax Christi
Debi

[Col]

Nothing John Paul ll did touched you in any way??

As I inferred in my previous post, No.
Am I not I am entitled to my honest reply. I am just answering a simple question. I went and heard him speak when he visited Sydney about 11 years ago and also went to a Mass he held at Sydney's Randwick Racecourse (there were a few of us there). Other than this our paths have never crossed physically or metephorically.

Pope aside, Catholicism aside, Christianity itself aside (if you will)… the fall of Communism did not leave any impression on you?

Governments and regimes come and go but God is constant and no matter who happens to govern the country I live in, it would not change my relationship with God. So I fail to see the connection between "down fall of communism" (by the way you better tell the Chinese, Nth koreans, Cubans....etc about this) and faith in God.

Col, was +++John Paul not the single most influential Christian on the planet for the last 26 years?

My Christian life and the beliefs of the pope and the catholic church are worlds apart.
Before joining this board a couple of years ago, I had never given catholicism a second thought. Simply because it was in not part of my life, Christian or secular. (Notwithstanding this, I have endeavoured to genuinely understand catholicism and have posed questions and participated in threads in the past with "mixed results").
So in answer to you question; in the last 26 years he has had no positive influence on my faith in God or my daily struggle to be the best ambassador for Christ that I can be.

So, with the risk of repeating myself, No I don't feel the need to mourn this man, and to say otherwise would be dishonest.
I am well aware that countless people have beed affected by his passing, and for those whom his life did have an impact, it is understandable.
Freely expressing one's emotions is very cathartic and important for those suffering grief, and I would never try to dissuade anyone from doing so.
I am just stating my opinion, I am not trying to change anyone elses.

[Benedicta00]

As I inferred in my previous post, No.
Am I not I am entitled to my honest reply. I am just answering a simple question. I went and heard him speak when he visited Sydney about 11 years ago and also went to a Mass he held at Sydney's Randwick Racecourse (there were a few of us there). Other than this our paths have never crossed physically or metephorically.

If is your opinion and feeling that than none of his accomplishments political or religious touched your life in anyway- you are certainly entitle to feel that way. But you went and saw the pope- wow, what made you do that?

[mustardseed74]

I have a lot of respect for Pope John Paul II and consider him a great Christian leader, but I don't mourn him. I believe he is in Heaven and it certainly seems like he was not afraid to die. He accomplished a lot in his lifetime and I believe he made good use of his life. I don't really see any reason to be sad at his passing.

[gtsecc]

He learned 18 languages inorder to spread the gospel to people in their own language. This blows me away.

[gtsecc]

Col, if you saw him and it did not move you , then I guess I have to accept what you are saying.

[Benedicta00]

He learned 18 languages inorder to spread the gospel to people in their own language. This blows me away.
But it was only 7 he could speak fluently and understand fluently- the rest he knew enough to get by but still what an accomplishment that in it self is. It’s like when peter came out on Pentecost and spoke in all the different languages to the people there.

[FlyerBoy]

People die every day, every death is sad for those who are left behind and were close to to one who has passed. As such we mourn for those we knew, loved or who may have touched our lives.
So in answer to the OP, personally, I would have to say that I don't feel the need to mourn this man's death.

I'm with you on this. I believe that it was his time to go. God decided that his job was done here so he went up to be with Jesus. As for mourning goes, i think it depends. I think as long as you don't go to far. He isn't as big as everyone is making him. "HE IS NOT GOD, NOR JESUS CHRIST!!!" sorry that has been bothering me. So i think it is okay to mourn just don't go to far.

[Debi1967]

I'm with you on this. I believe that it was his time to go. God decided that his job was done here so he went up to be with Jesus. As for mourning goes, i think it depends. I think as long as you don't go to far. He isn't as big as everyone is making him. "HE IS NOT GOD, NOR JESUS CHRIST!!!" sorry that has been bothering me. So i think it is okay to mourn just don't go to far.
Ok so If I said to you about a friend or family member well that is enough now you can no longer mourn their death because that is going to far..... Especially when this person only died little over a week ago... What then would you say to me? Especially if I said well He was not God nor Jesus...

For some reason I think you might think that a little uncalled for and cruel on my behalf... considering I am not the one affected, you are....

You are right he most certainly was not God nor Jesus... that is plain to see, but that does not mean that he cannot be loved and mourned ....

[FlyerBoy]

Ok so If I said to you about a friend or family member well that is enough now you can no longer mourn their death because that is going to far..... Especially when this person only died little over a week ago... What then would you say to me? Especially if I said well He was not God nor Jesus...

For some reason I think you might think that a little uncalled for and cruel on my behalf... considering I am not the one affected, you are....

You are right he most certainly was not God nor Jesus... that is plain to see, but that does not mean that he cannot be loved and mourned ....

But why continue to mourn for someone. He died you mourn for a couple days and you keep this person in your heart and you move on. My grandma and I were very close. She had emphazema and passed away. When I found out I was really hurt. But I didn't spend my life mourning for her. It has been over 3 years now, but I cared a lot for her. I went home sat at my bed home alone and just cried my heart out. I continued to mourn for two more days then put my mourning aside and moved on. She will always be apart of me. There is no point of continueing to mourn for someone.

[Debi1967]

But why continue to mourn for someone. He died you mourn for a couple days and you keep this person in your heart and you move on. My grandma and I were very close. She had emphazema and passed away. When I found out I was really hurt. But I didn't spend my life mourning for her. It has been over 3 years now, but I cared a lot for her. I went home sat at my bed home alone and just cried my heart out. I continued to mourn for two more days then put my mourning aside and moved on. She will always be apart of me. There is no point of continueing to mourn for someone.
The point is you said she will always be a part of you ....

And some people do not mourn in the way you do ... Some people need more time to do what you have done... You cannot expect all others to fit into what you feel is comfortable for you, as for them it may not be...

Now let me explain how this works to you from what I am even learning, as this is the first time I have experienced this as well...

With everyday for me it gets better.... I now look forward to the Conclave and the picking of the new Pope... There for me instead of complete sadness, is a mixture of sadness and Joy at knowing he is with God now... that his suffering is over and he has done a job well done for us and the world at large...

For others though they still struggle with it... When our Official Mourning is over and the Conclave begins those that are still mourning his death must then take what mourning they do, to private prayer... As then we as a whole must center our attention on the directions of the Cardinals and asking the Lord with the Guidance of the Holy Spirit to guide them appropriately.... This then becomes our task, and one that even John Paul would have wanted us to do.

When we at the end of the Conclave are introduced to our new Holy Father, we then celebrate with him .... you will see Joy at this announcement... and again we must start anew as is our tradition to do .... we then move completely forward...

Not that we have forgotten John Paul II because that is impossible to do, but in a sense we again have come full circle ... realizing that JPII left us with much to remember and that now we must take that and apply it in a positive way and that now the time for mourning is truly no more... We then keep him in our hearts as you have done with your grandmother...

Sometimes it just takes some people longer than others to do so.... Also you have to remember in all of this... We have to remember that our Cardinals and Bishops have had little time to mourn themselves because of all of the preparations leading up to the funeral... So they also now need this time as well... How would they be able to go into a Conclave for ten days when they themselves have not properly mourned the loss?

Pax Christi
Debi

[Benedicta00]

But why continue to mourn for someone. He died you mourn for a couple days and you keep this person in your heart and you move on. My grandma and I were very close. She had emphazema and passed away. When I found out I was really hurt. But I didn't spend my life mourning for her. It has been over 3 years now, but I cared a lot for her. I went home sat at my bed home alone and just cried my heart out. I continued to mourn for two more days then put my mourning aside and moved on. She will always be apart of me. There is no point of continueing to mourn for someone.
That is what the Church is doing, we put aside a nine day mourning period and then we get on with he business of choosing a new pope- it think they are meeting today to start praying. We will move on... I think the OP was asking if we should mourn him at all as if he deserves mourning and that get a resounding yes!

[Benedicta00]

I'm with you on this. I believe that it was his time to go. God decided that his job was done here so he went up to be with Jesus. As for mourning goes, i think it depends. I think as long as you don't go to far. He isn't as big as everyone is making him. "HE IS NOT GOD, NOR JESUS CHRIST!!!" sorry that has been bothering me. So i think it is okay to mourn just don't go to far.
We know he is not God or Jesus but he is one human who by far manifested the love he had inside if him for God and Christ to his fellow human beings.

[Debi1967]

That is what the Church is doing, we put aside a nine day mourning period and then we get on with he business of choosing a new pope- it think they are meeting today to start praying. We will move on... I think the OP was asking if we should mourn him at all as if he deserves mourning and that get a resounding yes!
They are having some prelim meetings before the Conclave yes to discuss how the Conclave will be done and the manner in which it will take place.... but the Conclave does not start until the 18th .... and the Official Mourning period started the Day of the Pope's funeral... Which means it ends the 17th ... thus the reason they go right into the Conclave on the the 18th...

They called for a media block out simply because if they are discussing any part of the Conclave be it prelim or not they are to be cliostered as has been so now changed by JPII himself due to the nature of the media and media leaks either by interviews or cellphones....

[FlyerBoy]

We know he is not God or Jesus but he is one human who by far manifested the love he had inside if him for God and Christ to his fellow human beings.

To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.

[gtsecc]

To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.
+++John Paul has to have been the most humble man I have known in my lifetime. I don't knwo what you mean by addvertising, but that is not how I would describe him.

[Debi1967]

To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.
He is the head of a Church that has a 1.1 BILLION Faithful and you think that it is not going to get out that he is doing this and that .....HUH??????????????

[Benedicta00]

To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.
God is the one who put him in the spotlight… This is “the city built on a hill that can not be hid.” He wasn’t advertising, he was doing's God's work…he was sent by God, not of himself, I don’t think even wanted the job, but if that is how you see it then you are entitled.

[FlyerBoy]

God is the one who put him in the spotlight? This is ?the city built on a hill that can not be hid.? He wasn?t advertising, he was doing's God's work?he was sent by God, not of himself, I don?t think even wanted the job, but if that is how you see it then you are entitled.

Sorry that I am the way I am. I am not trying to prove something I am just trying to say how i feel on this issue.

[melissa18_05]

When God takes one of His people out of this world to Heaven, we should be happy for that person because he is still with us in spirit and he is still looking down on us.

[gtsecc]

Sorry that I am the way I am. I am not trying to prove something I am just trying to say how i feel on this issue.


You feel like he was advertising too much.
Why? Did this idea just pop into your head, or did he do something that made you think he was drawing attention to himself.

[FlyerBoy]

You feel like he was advertising too much.
Why? Did this idea just pop into your head, or did he do something that made you think he was drawing attention to himself.

I just feel that God wants us to do things with out extreme recognition. He wants us to do it from the goodness of our heart. Not to gain popularity.

[gtsecc]

I just feel that God wants us to do things with out extreme recognition. He wants us to do it from the goodness of our heart. Not to gain popularity.
Yeah...
So, are you thinking +++HHJPII did things for popularity rather than the goodness of his heart? I think nothing could be furthur from the truth, so I wonder where you picked up this idea. Maybe you have some misconceptions about him.

[FlyerBoy]

Yeah...
So, are you thinking +++HHJPII did things for popularity rather than the goodness of his heart? I think nothing could be furthur from the truth, so I wonder where you picked up this idea. Maybe you have some misconceptions about him.

Maybe I do, but I know that their our others that feel the same way.

[gtsecc]

Maybe I do, but I know that their our others that feel the same way.

Some folks think he is the anti-Christ. But, you don't want to not liek him becasue of other folks or because you are misinformed. I know you will seek the truth.

[Debi1967]

Then maybe in a thread that is dedicated to being soothing to your fellow Brethren it is not the best time to be airing these types of feelings right now .... As they might upset your fellow Brothers and Sisters in their hour of Mourning and you and others should probably be thinking of being charitable....

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[Amongst the Flock]

Romans 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn.

Even if you are not a Catholic they are still your brothers and sisters in Christ and you should respect their loss of their churches leader. Regardless of what you think of the former pope he was a humble servant for Christ and he did alot of things that no other pope has done. He did alot for world peace and helping the less fortunate. There does tend to be alot of strife between Catholics and Protestants but now is certainly not the time to make a thread like this. If your pastor died in your church would you like other denominations and friends to mourn with you. Of course you would so mourn with the catholics in their loss.

I would like to send out my sympathy to all Catholics that are mourning his death.

However it is time to rejoice for he is with Christ and in his new body.

Love, joy, and peace to all.

[Benedicta00]

I just feel that God wants us to do things with out extreme recognition. He wants us to do it from the goodness of our heart. Not to gain popularity.
So you believe you know what was in his heart? And that what was in there was self love and pride? That's curious.

I’m sorry but knowing the pope the way I do, I just don’t see it and I am truly sorry if others do feel like you... Because it really isn't true. By their fruits we will know them.

All I can say is, that is way of base not even in the ballpark. He was not working for himself- this pope was truly humble and what he did was out of his love for Christ and he his fellow man no matter if they were Buddhist or Jewish or pagan, and he fought for the dignity of the human person. He was everyone pope, even if you hated him, he still stood for your dignity as a child of God.

[PACKY]

he is a human and one of Gods children we should mourn the loss of anyone...

[FlyerBoy]

I?m sorry but knowing the pope the way I do

You knew the Pope??? or you heard about him?

[Benedicta00]

You knew the Pope??? or you heard about him?
I know him from following his papaya very closely, listing to him and reading a whole lot from him. Do you know him personally?

[FlyerBoy]

I know him from following his papaya very closely, listing to him and reading a whole lot from him. Do you know him personally?
No i don't so any one of us could be right. But I have a little dought in my mind so this is how i feel.

[Canada_Girl]

my young friend...you and the Pope. Perhaps that's part of your misunderstanding right there. The pope is no ordinary Christian, but a man whose whole life from your age till the end, was consecrated in service to Jesus Christ, and who, over a lifetime of service, was called to the office of Pope. He is responsible for the spiritual well-being of 1 billion people.

Now, does any of that bear any comparison to your life? I don't think so. Therefore you are mistaken in comparing your personal walk at age 18 with that of the highest leadership in the largest Church in the world. At your age, you are just beginning a life of vocation and potential leadership if you obey God as He leads you.

Please understand the difference and have enough respect that you don't reduce a great leader to your own level. If you take the time to study this man's life, he would provide you with a wonderful role model for holiness and godliness. After all, isn't that what all Christian leaders are called to do?
To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.

[FlyerBoy]

my young friend...you and the Pope. Perhaps that's part of your misunderstanding right there. The pope is no ordinary Christian, but a man whose whole life from your age till the end, was consecrated in service to Jesus Christ, and who, over a lifetime of service, was called to the office of Pope. He is responsible for the spiritual well-being of 1 billion people.

Now, does any of that bear any comparison to your life? I don't think so. Therefore you are mistaken in comparing your personal walk at age 18 with that of the highest leadership in the largest Church in the world. At your age, you are just beginning a life of vocation and potential leadership if you obey God as He leads you.

Please understand the difference and have enough respect that you don't reduce a great leader to your own level. If you take the time to study this man's life, he would provide you with a wonderful role model for holiness and godliness. After all, isn't that what all Christian leaders are called to do?
To tell you the truth IMO I think he was addvertising alittle to much. If I do somethings like he has This many people wouldn't know.

I still don't see the big picture. How do you know that he has believed in Jesus his whole life? I thought that we were all equal anyways. Why does everyone think just cause they're our leaders that they can't be on the same level as us? It is not true.

[Canada_Girl]

and the big picture will come to you. The scriptures clearly teach about authority in the church. I know that he believed in Jesus his whole life because that is his testimony--many have already said that if you want to know him and his life, read what he has written. If you don't want to know, then...Oh well. There's really no point in trying to convince you of anything. He was what he was. But it's great that you are interested. You should also be reading about ALL the great men and women of faith throughout the past 200 years of history. You will learn from the examples of their lives what it means to live a godly, obedient, sacrificial Christian life. Study and learn. Scripture and history. It will all fit together for you. God bless you in your journey.:)


I still don't see the big picture. How do you know that he has believed in Jesus his whole life? I thought that we were all equal anyways. Why does everyone think just cause they're our leaders that they can't be on the same level as us? It is not true.[/QUOTE]

[Canada_Girl]

the past 2000 years of Christian history...the lives of the saints...and the big picture will come to you. The scriptures clearly teach about authority in the church. I know that he believed in Jesus his whole life because that is his testimony--many have already said that if you want to know him and his life, read what he has written. If you don't want to know, then...Oh well. There's really no point in trying to convince you of anything. He was what he was. But it's great that you are interested. You should also be reading about ALL the great men and women of faith throughout the past 200 years of history. You will learn from the examples of their lives what it means to live a godly, obedient, sacrificial Christian life. Study and learn. Scripture and history. It will all fit together for you. God bless you in your journey.:)


I still don't see the big picture. How do you know that he has believed in Jesus his whole life? I thought that we were all equal anyways. Why does everyone think just cause they're our leaders that they can't be on the same level as us? It is not true.[/QUOTE]

[cjhenson]

I think everyone, Catholic or not mourned the death of the pope. I am not Catholic but I mourned his passing because he was such a great leader and a great man who made many wonderful differences in the lives of people around him. And he was a brother through Christ, so of course his death should be mourned.

[Debi1967]

I still don't see the big picture. How do you know that he has believed in Jesus his whole life? I thought that we were all equal anyways. Why does everyone think just cause they're our leaders that they can't be on the same level as us? It is not true.
Actually ABC recently had a two hour special about the POPE, that they aired right after his Death.... ABC, that is usually known for it's anti-Catholic stance on things did a beautiful expose, and more than one leader from one Faith was used in it... All of them acknowledging his Holiness... They also told you of his childhood which which was also dedicated to the Lord as well...IOWs they told his whole life story...

And again I ask you .... wouldn't this be better to be brought up in another thread ?

[FlyerBoy]

And again I ask you .... wouldn' this be better to be bringing up in another thread ?

Probably, I just don't know where to put it.

[Debi1967]

Probably, I just don't know where to put it.
If you belong to this forum then you would start another thread in your own forum

[michaeldimmickjr]

Maybe I do, but I know that their our others that feel the same way.

I agree. I addressed this on another message board and got banned. It was titled "Too much emphasis placed on a human." I didn't mean to offend anyone, just voice my opinion. Hebrews 12:2 makes a good point.

Michael

[Debi1967]

I agree. I addressed this on another message board and got banned. It was titled "Too much emphasis placed on a human." I didn't mean to offend anyone, just voice my opinion. Hebrews 12:2 makes a good point.

Michael
Start another thread gentlemen ... this should not be a place for you to bash people in their time of mourning because you believe differently than we do ... that in itself is unchristianlike

[Debi1967]

And Michael your very negative behaviour towards Catholics has been noted

[michaeldimmickjr]

And Michael your very negative behaviour towards Catholics has been noted

How has my behaviour been negative? I've never done anything but ask questions and quote the Bible. If that in itself is "negative behaviour" then I think there are some control issues here where people aren't allowed to "think" differenty than others. On top of that you're not only singling me out but the other person who "thought" differently. The whole thread was a question about whether or not the person should mourn the loss of the pope. Everyone was giving their opinions. I guess they can only be opinions if they're in accordance with everyone's thinking. I guess that's why there's still facism in the world.

2 Timothy 2:23 makes a good point. I have to admit though, at this moment I'm not following it. I guess that's what makes me human. I hold no grudges and I do forgive. May Christ Jesus enlighten all of us, especially myself. I'm sorry to apparently offend again.

Michael

[Debi1967]

How has my behaviour been negative? I've never done anything but ask questions and quote the Bible. If that in itself is "negative behaviour" then I think there are some control issues here where people aren't allowed to "think" differenty than others. On top of that you're not only singling me out but the other person who "thought" differently. The whole thread was a question about whether or not the person should mourn the loss of the pope. Everyone was giving their opinions. I guess they can only be opinions if they're in accordance with everyone's thinking. I guess that's why there's still facism in the world.

2 Timothy 2:23 makes a good point. I have to admit though, at this moment I'm not following it. I guess that's what makes me human. I hold no grudges and I do forgive. May Christ Jesus enlighten all of us, especially myself. I'm sorry to apparently offend again.

Michael
It seems though Michael you love to single out Catholic subjects....You have not offended and do not offend if you ask in sincerity michael that I can appreciate ... But now it is my turn to ask you this ... do you ask us questions to really try to understand ..... where we are coming from.... (you do realize this does not mean that you have to accept it) or are you without trying to first understand simply trying to say you are wrong and I am right... that is the difference where is your heart Michael when you approach your Brethren is it humble or prideful

[Benedicta00]

I still don't see the big picture. How do you know that he has believed in Jesus his whole life? I thought that we were all equal anyways. Why does everyone think just cause they're our leaders that they can't be on the same level as us? It is not true.
Because by their fruits you will know them. He led more people to Christ and not away.

And why do you think, we think he is on a higher level than us? It was the pope himself who taught us that we are all children of the same God and all of us were made in his image and likeness and are equal in digity. So I really do not know where you are coming from with this one.

[Benedicta00]

I think everyone, Catholic or not mourned the death of the pope. I am not Catholic but I mourned his passing because he was such a great leader and a great man who made many wonderful differences in the lives of people around him. And he was a brother through Christ, so of course his death should be mourned.
One thing the pope sure could do was unite Christians and even none Christians in brotherly love. He will be missed. He just seemed to bring out the best in everyone- he used to say that it wasn’t him but the Holy Spirit.

[thereselittleflower]

I think everyone, Catholic or not mourned the death of the pope. I am not Catholic but I mourned his passing because he was such a great leader and a great man who made many wonderful differences in the lives of people around him. And he was a brother through Christ, so of course his death should be mourned.


Thank you cj . . . .


That was very kind of you to post this . . . thank you for joining with us in our mourning. Pray for us also for the Holy Spirit to guide the Cardinals in the election of our new pope . . .



Hi Michelle



Peace

[SumTinWong]

Hi. I am 16 and a christian, non-denominational. Since the pope's passing, i have been wondering if i should be completely distraught by it. I am upset because he was such a leader for so many catholics, but i am not catholic, therefore i dont know how to respond. Any advice/info would be wonderful. Thanks so much! God Bless.:hug:
It would be hard for any of us to tell you how to feel. If you do not feel distraught that is okay. I am not distrught, nor am I really saddened by it anymore than when anyone dies. I have been sad for the Catholics who lost their leader, but as for the actual pope, I felt no anguish or feelings of saddness.

[thereselittleflower]

It would be hard for any of us to tell you how to feel. If you do not feel distraught that is okay. I am not distrught, nor am I really saddened by it anymore than when anyone dies. I have been sad for the Catholics who lost their leader, but as for the actual pope, I felt no anguish or feelings of saddness.

UncleBud, I am glad you are here . . . you did something with the quote function that made a quote look like the scripture quote box . . not like the one in your post above . . .

Can you tell me how you did it?


thanks!


Peace

[SumTinWong]

I wish i could. It just started showing up that way, and doesn't always. If I figure it out I will let you know :)

Usually i just

hit the quotes button

But it seems whatever magic I had i gone now :)

[thereselittleflower]

I wish i could. It just started showing up that way, and doesn't always. If I figure it out I will let you know :)

Usually i just



But it seems whatever magic I had i gone now :)

LOL :D Thanks! :)


Peace

[SumTinWong]

No problem :)

Perhaps this?

nevermind I dunno. It is a mystery.

[lismore]

Hi. I am 16 and a christian, non-denominational. Since the pope's passing, i have been wondering if i should be completely distraught by it. I am upset because he was such a leader for so many catholics, but i am not catholic, therefore i dont know how to respond. Any advice/info would be wonderful. Thanks so much! God Bless.:hug:

Hi:wave:

If he was saved........rejoice:clap:

If he wasnt then mourn:eek:

[lismore]

The 'fish hat', as you refer to it, is a bishop's mitre signifying that he is a bishop within the Roman Church, specifically the bishop of Rome itself.

The crown is the symbol of both the spiritual and temporal authority which the Roman Church claims is vested in the pope. The fact that the Roman Church has combined both spiritual authority and temporal authority into one (the joining together of Church and State - known as 'Christendom') is contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures. The very concept of a Vatican (city) State with the Pope as the political 'head of state' and papal legates as his ambassadors with one in [nearly?] every state throughout the world as well as every international organisation (the UN, EU, etc.) is completely contrary to the clear teachings of the Bible. [See: Kingdoms In Conflict - An Insider's View Of Politics, Power And The Pulpit by Charles Colson and Ellen Santilli Vaughan http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310397715/103-2529697-0246229 ]

Indeed, the very issue of what is the final basis of authority in all matters of faith and doctrine (the Scriptures or the Church?) is the main issue that divides all Protestants from the Roman Church.

Presumably then, the dove is symbolic of the Holy Spirit?

Simonline.

More about the hat in this book:

http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/fpchurch/EbBI/fpm/1999/December/article7.htm

[uschi_yoshi]

Hi. I am 16 and a christian, non-denominational. Since the pope's passing, i have been wondering if i should be completely distraught by it. I am upset because he was such a leader for so many catholics, but i am not catholic, therefore i dont know how to respond. Any advice/info would be wonderful. Thanks so much! God Bless.:hug:

Do you feel that you need to be completely distraught by it? I'm hoping to turn catholic for future endeavors, but yet I do mourn over the pope's passing. I look at as if one of my family member's died and not really base my reactions as if it was towards religion. As long as you know where your heart, and your faith with God, you will be alright. :) God Bless.

[Lynn73]

I'm sorry that he died......... I'm not a Catholic, but I realize he was really "something" to the Catholic people......... To me, he was just a man that has unfortunatly died, but what really matters is~ Was he saved? Did he give HIS heart to the Lord Jesus?

I wasn't going to say anything but you've said it for me right here. All that's going to matter as the man Karol Wojtyla stand before God is what did he do with Jesus Christ. Did He trust in Him alone for salvation.

[Benedicta00]

I wasn't going to say anything but you've said it for me right here. All that's going to matter as the man Karol Wojtyla stand before God is what did he do with Jesus Christ. Did He trust in Him alone for salvation.
I think it's a safe bet that he did... *I have to chuckle when I hear this said all the time by non Catholics.

[Lynn73]

That's great, I'd be happy for that to be so. :)