Non Denominational vs. Baptist

[MentalSoliloquy]

Could anyone please tell me the difference?

[Belle0985]

Good point. I would like to know this too.

[Telrunya]

Well for starters you need to direct that question more specificly to the people who are non denominational who believe water baptism is essential for salvation.

[MentalSoliloquy]

ok...sorry for not being specific enough?

obviously i'm asking because i am unaware... you didn't have to come across so rude.

[Telrunya]

ok...sorry for not being specific enough?

obviously i'm asking because i am unaware... you didn't have to come across so rude.

I think you were reading a tone in my post that isn't there. I by no means intended to be rude to you at all. I was trying to be breif in pointing out that there are major differances within the non denominational community that dont lend themselves to answering this kind of question easily unless you direct it to the ones who share the same major beliefs as the denomination you are comparing it too.

[MentalSoliloquy]

my apologies... i am in a super sensitive mood...

[9-iron]

What reason are you asking specifically? From a theological standpoint that is going to pretty hard to answer. You never really know what you are getting at a non-denominational church. They all do not have the same governing body and some don't have any overseeing at all. Therefore you get a variety of theology from each

You are asking a pretty vague question. Did you have a certain non-denominational group in mind?

[Stinker]

Since there is no clear definition of 'non-denominational' it follows that these people are trying to imply (without coming right out and saying it) that their church is not man-made, where as Denominations are.

So then, if the Baptist church just said that it now is 'non-denominational' it would be listed as such.

[9-iron]

trying to imply (without coming right out and saying it) that their church is not man-made, where as Denominations are.


Yeah, but that is a huge fallacy!!!

[rosiecotton]

I attend a Christian church, which is affiliated with the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ, which is non-denominational. Basically, that means we don't have, what I guess you would call, a main 'headquarters' that governs what we do. Though the churches in our affiliation besically have the same beliefs, though some do differ. Such as, some Church of Christ churches don't believe in using instruments in worship.
It does bother me the attitude that many have in the non-denom churches, that we are 'better' than denominational churches because we aren't 'man-made'. Personally, I don't have a problem with denominations. God uses their churches and the people in them just as much as He does the non-denom ones.

[MentalSoliloquy]

Thank you rosie...

I am trying to find a non denominational church to attend... I was just wondering because someone recommended a baptist church (that they do not attend) instead

[Christler]

I am a proud member of a non-denom, and as far as my assembly goes, we encourage to stick with the facts of God's Holy word. We strongly affirm that the Bible is not subject to private iterpretation. We research the origin of the king james text back to the original Hebrew,and greek, examine the tense,and the mood of the text according to Hebrew, and Greek laws of writting, and expression. Afterwards we teach the results of accurate study. We don't knock those who have attached themselves to a particular denomination, we have guest baptist preachers come in all the time, but they are heavily screened before being allowed to preach in the pulpit. My pastor is concerned that the flock recieves accurate biblical teaching, instruction, and information. Also to preach in the pulpit of our assembly, one is required to be walking the walk, as well as talking the talk. Therefore there are never any unknown people in the pulpit of our assembly. You can rest assure if they're preaching at our facility our pastor is familiar with his beliefs according to the scriptures, as well as his lifestyle. We don't lay claim to any denomination, because many base their believes according to their own understanding. (it has to make sense to their intellect.) I know for sure there are some incorrect interpetation of scripture in some, and some denominations conduct services in a way that the Bible instructs not to. denominational titles can get too political.
If we as non-denominationalist don't know the answer to a biblical question, we are supposed to say "we don't know." We are'nt supposed to say "well... I feel that it's saying etc, etc, etc."

[asjs1206]

I don't actually know-there are different types of non-denominational churches out there. I am in the process of joining a non-denominational church who believes that you should be baptized but that it is not essential for salvation or church membership they believe that baptism should be a decision that you make when God leads you to that place.
When I was a child I went to a Baptist church (an extreme) who had the theology that once your saved your always saved-which I feel is not a belief that I could embrace. I am not sure if All baptists believe that or if it was just that particular church.:wave:

[Christler]

I don't actually know-there are different types of non-denominational churches out there. I am in the process of joining a non-denominational church who believes that you should be baptized but that it is not essential for salvation or church membership they believe that baptism should be a decision that you make when God leads you to that place.
When I was a child I went to a Baptist church (an extreme) who had the theology that once your saved your always saved-which I feel is not a belief that I could embrace. I am not sure if All baptists believe that or if it was just that particular church.:wave:

I don't havee the time to explain with scritures, and greek terms, but no baptism is not a process of becoming saved, it is what we do as an outward confession of our salvation. Also as hard as it may be to believe, it is also true that once you are saved you are always saved. in short God put the righteousness of Jesus on you during salvation, so the father no longer sees you, but his son. Sin breaks the fellowship, not the relationship. Just like when Jesus was on the cross, and said my God my God why has thou forsaken me, it was because God can not look upon sin. it is the same with us when we sin, besides if you have the Holy Spirit living on the inside it will not be easy to continue in a lifestyle of sin. also there are about 16 places in the word of God that uses a greek word (that I can't recall at this time) which means "it is impossible" that word was used in the scripture "He who comes to me I will in no wise cast out." Which is the same as saying He who comes unto me it is impossible for me to cast out. salvation never came by works, therefore works are not powerful enough to maintain salvation. It is a gift to all who will put their trust in the finnished work of Jesus Christ.

[rosiecotton]

I don't actually know-there are different types of non-denominational churches out there. I am in the process of joining a non-denominational church who believes that you should be baptized but that it is not essential for salvation or church membership they believe that baptism should be a decision that you make when God leads you to that place.
When I was a child I went to a Baptist church (an extreme) who had the theology that once your saved your always saved-which I feel is not a belief that I could embrace. I am not sure if All baptists believe that or if it was just that particular church.:wave:

The church I attend does teach baptism as part of the salvation process. However, there are some of us who do not totally agree with that. I believe in baptism and that every believer should be baptized. But, I just cannot say that if you aren't baptized you end up in hell. Only God can make that call. He knows who truly belongs to Him, whether they are baptized or not.

[FaithAlone]

I am a non-denominationalist who goes to a Southern Baptist church. (I am speaking from my experience and this may vary from church to church)The only beliefs that I have that don't line up with Baptists are that they believe that the Pastor is the only elder of the church (very dangerous idea) and they will make pretty much any new male adult a deacon. I do believe that a believer should be baptized, but not out of neccessity for salvation. I believe that you will see good works in a Christian's life because they are saved, not because they are working to stay saved. I believe that taking the Lord's Supper every week is a great thing but I don't think you have to take it every week. I agree with instrumental music in worship as long as it is edifying. It's all about whether or not you're worshipping God. I do believe that once you are saved you are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Jesus preserves us (first couple of verses in Jude), He who began a good work in us will complete it. No one can snatch us out of Christ's hand. Of all that come to Him He will lose nothing, but raise them up on the last day! I'm paraphrasing but I can get you the verses if you need them. I guess I'm just rambling but that covers my non-denominational beliefs. I know not all will agree.

[FaithAlone]

If you have any specific questions about the Baptist church I can try to answer them.

[Jim Woodell]

I don't havee the time to explain with scritures, and greek terms, but no baptism is not a process of becoming saved, it is what we do as an outward confession of our salvation. Also as hard as it may be to believe, it is also true that once you are saved you are always saved. in short God put the righteousness of Jesus on you during salvation, so the father no longer sees you, but his son. Sin breaks the fellowship, not the relationship. Just like when Jesus was on the cross, and said my God my God why has thou forsaken me, it was because God can not look upon sin. it is the same with us when we sin, besides if you have the Holy Spirit living on the inside it will not be easy to continue in a lifestyle of sin. also there are about 16 places in the word of God that uses a greek word (that I can't recall at this time) which means "it is impossible" that word was used in the scripture "He who comes to me I will in no wise cast out." Which is the same as saying He who comes unto me it is impossible for me to cast out. salvation never came by works, therefore works are not powerful enough to maintain salvation. It is a gift to all who will put their trust in the finnished work of Jesus Christ.

What you are saying here does not agree with scripture: Mark 16:15-16;Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:20-21. :confused:

[MentalSoliloquy]

I am looking for a non-denominational church to attend, however, the one in my area (small town) RARELY uses the scriptures... and never...relates themes he talks about back to the scriptures, the pastor just talks...and says a lot of 'ums' and he gets the followers of the church to do most of the service - by standing up and giving life experience examples - not pertaining to the bible - I felt uncomfortable.

There is a baptist church that somebody recommended I go to...but I do not want to be caught up in anything 'man made' so I was curious as to what is the difference between them both? are there differences? do baptists add their sugar and spice to Christianity?

[9-iron]

There is a baptist church that somebody recommended I go to...but I do not want to be caught up in anything 'man made' so I was curious as to what is the difference between them both? are there differences? do baptists add their sugar and spice to Christianity?




All contemporary churches are man-made.

[Ginny]

Well for starters you need to direct that question more specificly to the people who are non denominational who believe water baptism is essential for salvation.

Non-denom believe that? I thought that was just Church of Christ?

[Ginny]

Faith,

I am right there with you!

I, too, go to a Southern Baptist church but I call myself a "Christian" not a "Baptist". My husband and I choose to go to a Baptist church b/c they are ultra conservative and very very very strict with the Word of God. (no flames please, my opinion.)

Anyhow, I believe you can go to a church specified by a certain name, but yet not "call" yourself that. I am not all about.."The Southern Baptist Convention says....etc., etc." We do not get into all that.

I think that is what denominations are all about anyhow...they take a few scriptures and then run with it...clearly making the denomination what they focus on and what they are known for.

After all, how is it that people sterotype Baptists against not drinking and no dancing, Catholics baptize babies and do drink LOL, CoC is known for no music and strict water baptism, etc...know what I mean?

I have told my husband that if we ever moved that I would like to check out a non-denom...but we would have to sit down and talk to the pastor for hours before doing so. I would not want to get ourselves into anything that is clearly not parallel with the Word of God. That is the key!

God knows where you should be! Pray about it! Why would He put you in the wrong church? Don't take our opinion. God knows best!

P.S.,....I can see us already starting to debate water baptism necessary for salvation (hint hint)

[mdolls68]

I grew up in various Baptist churches from conservative when I was a child, to fundamental in college and southern Baptist after college. They all talked about Salvation is putting your trust & faith in Jesus Christ to be your Savior. Baptism was always a public profession of faith and not as a thing that determines whether you are saved or not.

In terms of major doctrine, I couldn't tell a huge difference other than some preferences in how the churches operate, like who their governing bodies, conventions, etc were, dress, traditions. I found the various churches very steeped in tradition, and not progressive towards changing to meet people where they are at. I also found the fundamental church I went to extremely legalistic, non-forgiving and pious.

In all the churches, however, there were some really awesome people.

Over the past 6-7 yrs I've been going to a non-denominational church (Vineyard Christian Fellowship). They don't have the same governing bodies at the Baptist churches, but in terms of salvation and baptism, it seems the same as the Baptist churches.

Worship, however, is very different. There are no traditional hymns that sing songs about God, rather I find them to be more like love songs to God. I haven't found the vineyard churches to be legalistic, rather they seek to better understand to know the character of God and developing relationships between people. I've never felt a sense of community nor have I grown as much in my walk with Christ after I have left the Baptist church.

The vineyard I go to in worship is not super charismatic, but far more than any of the Baptist churches I've attended. I know there are some very charismatic Baptist churches, I've just never been to any. Our church also has dancing as a part of the worship, we do speaking in tongues and healing. In the vineyard churches we've been involved in, there has been a huge transparency of its people . . . getting rid of the fakeness and formality I'd grown up with.

All the churches I've been to have a VBS (Vacation Bible School) program. The Vineyard churches are big into disciplineship, family programs, and programs that help people deal with every day issues. I feel very blessed to go to our church. God has really been teaching me so much.

[OnEarth]

I'd rather not seperate into so many groups. That is like picking and choosing what you think is the way. Is anyone here from Jews for Christ?

[watchman7]

What is non-denominational?
Given that:
Christians are the Church (Body of Christ)
There is only one Church
The early Church was known by its locality (ex. Church of Ephesus)
Is non-denominational un-denominational?
What is the real difference?
Are denominations unscriptural?
Are non-denominations scriptural?
Does being known as non-denomination give denomination credence?
Is it ok to be known by something that you are not?
Some of the threads I read sound like a mirror of denominations.
I am also not a member of a denomination.
I am a member of a home assembly.
I am asking these questions to spur thought. ( And I am also interested in knowing the answers)

Thanks in advance
Brother in Christ

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Since there is no clear definition of 'non-denominational' it follows that these people are trying to imply (without coming right out and saying it) that their church is not man-made, where as Denominations are.

So then, if the Baptist church just said that it now is 'non-denominational' it would be listed as such.

Actually non-denominational covers any church without a central governing body. Baptist churches are generally members of one of the baptist conventions so they would not be recognized as non-denom unless they parted from the convention. For instance in the Restoration Movement there are thee major groups, DoC, CoC, and Cc. The CC and CoC are non-denom as each church is self governed and there is no-one outside of the church that can affect the church's teachings. The DoC became a denom and now have a doctrinal authority. All non-denom means is that there is not a central authority. It does not mean or imply what you have stated and what you stated is pretty offesnive. I don't think myself better that any Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, or any other denomination. The only difference in a denom and non-denom is the presence or abscence of a doctrinal authority, nothing more and nothing less.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

What is non-denominational?
Given that:
Christians are the Church (Body of Christ)
There is only one Church
The early Church was known by its locality (ex. Church of Ephesus)

Those things really have nothing to do with the definition....

Is non-denominational un-denominational?

Non-denom is composed of about three terms traditionally:

Non-denominational: No outside doctrinal authority, a completely standalone church

Un-denominational: Partcipates in voluntary co-operation with other churches with similar doctrine, such as the Brotherhood of Independant Christian Churches, these organizations do not have any doctrinal authority over their member churches.

Inter-denominational: Chapels such as the army chapels where all denominations are welcome to worship as standard practice, hospital chapels are another example of this. The minister would not claim a denominational affiliation from the pulpit but may well be a member of a denomination.


What is the real difference?


In what?


Are denominations unscriptural?
Are non-denominations scriptural?


Yes and no to both. We see the churches being essentially self governed but we also see Paul correcting doctrine in churches. There is not an organization that reproduces the early church and I don't think anyone is closer than anyone else to be quite honest. We all have the basics right (Christ and the Cross) but outside of that we could all have it wrong. I am firm believer in being where God has called you to be whether it be a CoC or Catholic church.


Does being known as non-denomination give denomination credence?


Non at all, as their is no doctrinal authority. For instance most of the WoF churches are non-denom and if you attended one of those and then walked into a Christian Church you would be in a different world. There is no doctrinal or denominational; creedence in the term non-denominational.


Is it ok to be known by something that you are not?


It is simply a reference to the absence of a doctrinal authority and most non-denom churches do not have that in their name, they are known by their church name and nothing more.


Some of the threads I read sound like a mirror of denominations.
I am also not a member of a denomination.
I am a member of a home assembly.
I am asking these questions to spur thought. ( And I am also interested in knowing the answers)

Thanks in advance
Brother in Christ

Looking forward to your thoughts on my responses.

[JimfromOhio]

Today we have over 47 different kinds of Baptists in the US alone. Practically most of them have different doctrines. So you will have to ask which doctrines you are curious about between baptists and non-denominational. Besides... There are hundreds different kinds of non-denominational churches in the US.

Church is created by Christ.
Denominations (i.e. Lutheran, Weslyan) were created by sinners who converted to Christians.
Why different denominations? Different major doctrines.

[dvd_holc]

Let me say, I am not trying to be rude and I don't want to affend you....

"I am looking for a non-denominational church to attend, however, the one in my area (small town) RARELY uses the scriptures... and never...relates themes he talks about back to the scriptures, the pastor just talks...and says a lot of 'ums' and he gets the followers of the church to do most of the service - by standing up and giving life experience examples - not pertaining to the bible - I felt uncomfortable."

RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You felt the Holy Spirit talking; listen to it.
Our foundation is Christ and the Bible. What we know of God is both from the Bible and display of his will through us. But if a church is just talking about what is going on in your life and does not get to God through actual scriptures...then it becomes more of a feel good church.

I am a Christian. It does not matter to me about an other attachments with that. If anyone says they are apart of one of the demoninations that does not matter that much to me. My percept is how does God feel about it? If you tell me God wants, feels, etc something toward a situation...it is based off a scripture. If they can't bring back there...I wonder really what is the source of it then. If they do bring it back to scriptures...it should be taken in context it was written.

My wife has been brought up as a Southern Baptist. She does not take anything they say if it is not biblical. Really that is the key of it all.

I also am not concerned with "traditions". Our whole life reflects on God, and we are called to worship him. Some people take certain things to be more important than other things which creates one part of the division. Some other division start when you think an object is the source of wickedness rather than the decisions of the person. It is very human...But always give what is due to God, and he will lead you to do good. I have not defined perfectly everything in envolved but...The only source of salvation is through Jesus. It does not matter if a person said he was a Non-denominational or Baptist when he returns...He says you were a believer and the due respect is on belief.

[Lpe04]

Non-Demominational generally teaches more from God's Word (the only Truth we have) as opposed to doctrines of men which are very prominent in congregations.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Non-Demominational generally teaches more from God's Word (the only Truth we have) as opposed to doctrines of men which are very prominent in congregations.

Even non-denom has plenty of doctrines of men. That's a huge insult to our denominational bretheren and plays into the statement made earlier about non-denom being a back handed insult to denominations. All non-denom means is that the doctrines of men that are taught rest on a board of elders or a single pastor and not a overarching authority. The argument can be made that non-denom is open to more errors because of less review by a large body. I can show you many many non-denom churches that have major doctrinal errors so the statement is incorrect on a very basic level. I prefer a non-denom church because I prefer a self governed church but I certainly do not look down on my denominational bretheren.

[JimfromOhio]

A denomination is any church organization that holds itself separate from the rest of the Church. This division may be on account of a doctrine, a difference of opinion, or any of many various reasons.

The Bible does not even mention a denomination.

There were no denominations when the Apostles were preaching the Gospel. There were Letters writing by Apostles to churches like:
church of the Thessalonians
church that was at Antioch
church which is at Cenchrea
saints which are at Ephesus
saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi
saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse

In the Bible, the Church was named or called, by the location, or region, it wasn’t named the Church of Paul, no not even the Church of Christ, but rather "Church of the "Thessalonians." The word "Church" means "An assembly of Christian believers".

Denominations were created by people who have different "statement of faith" or "doctrines of faith".

I have been in many different denominations and when I do visit churches, I look for their statements (doctrines) of faith, see how they teach from the Word of God and how the Church is organized. I even look at the church's (or denomination's) history. There are many different way to find a church that fit to your liking.

[Stinker]

Here is a link to a short written debate on denominationalism. It deals with the world's concept of what non-denominationalism is, and not what the Christian concept is.

http://www.religiousdebates.com/denom/denomframe.htm