Poll: On obedience and salvation in this man's life.

[cbk]

Read the following and comment:

Mike, who is a believer in Christ's sacrifice for his past, present, and future sins, is walking down the street. The Holy Spirit compels Mike to give money to a begger who holds a tin cup with $20 in it. As he approaches the beggar, Mike decides to reject the prompting of the Holy Spirit and NOT give the beggar money! In fact, Mike STEALS all that the beggar has despite the fact that Mike has the knowledge of the truth that what he did was sinful and that he needed to repent and return the money to the beggar. Mike does not do so and -- from that moment on -- he lives a life of robbery and continues to live with the knowledge that what he does is wrong and he refuses to repent of these sins. He still believes in Christ, but has rationalized that obedience is of no concern.

Is Mike saved?

[Stinker]

Read the following and comment:

Mike, who is a believer in Christ's sacrifice for his past, present, and future sins, is walking down the street. The Holy Spirit compels Mike to give money to a begger who holds a tin cup with $20 in it. As he approaches the beggar, Mike decides to reject the prompting of the Holy Spirit and NOT give the beggar money! In fact, Mike STEALS all that the beggar has despite the fact that Mike has the knowledge of the truth that what he did was sinful and that he needed to repent and return the money to the beggar. Mike does not do so and -- from that moment on -- he lives a life of robbery and continues to live with the knowledge that what he does is wrong and he refuses to repent of these sins. He still believes in Christ, but has rationalized that obedience is of no concern.

Is Mike saved?


This is a classic example of Naturalistic Soteriology. This is a biblical system in which if followed.....even an unconverted person can be made to believe that the way to heaven is just the following of commands.

[holo]

We are saved by faith, not works, so yes, Mike is saved.

You cold use another example: you're walking down the street on your way to a christian meeting. On the way you meet several friends who needs to hear about Jesus. You decide to go to the meeting instead. Are you still saved?
Whenever you're not doing exactly what God wants you to do, you sin, don't you?
Does God want you to spend this moment on CF, for example?

Mike may be wasting his life, but not his salvation.

[moses916]

do u guys enjoy judging? it seems like it!

[ClaireZ]

I don't think it is up to us to pass judgement on anyone's salvation but our own.

[moses916]

well said! :)

[CWLite]

Well we are not passing judgement on anyone, but we are discussing something very important. What if this discussing this topic gives someone in this conversation conviction of sin, wouldn't it be worth it?

I think that he would not be saved, for he has knowingly rejected God and has forgotten love. John speaks on this the best:

1 John 2
3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&version=31#fen-NIV-30540b)] is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

We would have to say that Mike is not in Christ because love is not in him, the truth is not in him. Salvation is a life of repentence, of concencration before God. If Mike repented and turned back to God, obeying God, then God would be in him once more.

[holo]

But CWLite, look at yourself. Do you live in perfect love 24/7? I bet you're a little selfish too sometimes, and a little selfishness is all you need to make an ugly scratch in the perfect love.

Salvation isn't a life of repentance or concentration before God. That just sounds right and holy, it even gives us something to brag about. No, salvation is rest and freedom. LIfe can be a struggle, but in all of it Jesus promises peace. We don't have to fight and struggle to be with Jesus. You can't get "closer" to God than you already are, because He's in you. There are people who think they're not saved anymore because they had too many beers last night.

[abbygirlforever]

I think the point is that Mike would not repent. He would not change his ways. He was merely paying lip service to God, but in his heart he had not changed, because if he had he would have repented completely.

I don't understand why everybody is so afraid of judgement. We will someday judge angels (1 Corinthains 6:3 and surrounding verses). The Bible is very clear that we are not to judge unless we are willing to be so judged. That's not a forbiddance [is forbiddance a word?] of judging, but a warning to judge fairly and carefully. It is through the Holy Spirit that we can accurately judge.

The Scriptures are very specific that not all who say "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Not all who claim to be Christians will enter into the joy of the Lord. Actions speak louder than words, and Mike is not acting in accordance to God's commandments, nor is he willing to repent.

[crossrunner]

I would wonder what is in mike's heart and why the fruit of his salvation is not there...but I am not one to judge anyone's heart when it comes to salvation so I didn't vote.