Without Faith It's IMPOSSIBLE......

[Shimshon]

To Please YHVH! 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened. Why must we misuse this verse sooooo.

YHVH spoke to all the faithful, he instructed them (gave them Torah) in many ways. Moshe seems to be the most detailed of instructions. It was given for a purpose, place and time. "when you enter the land I promised" This Torah also spoke of a time when it would be broken, by the people AND by YHVH, because they did not "keep faith" with YHVH and his covenant. NOTHING in Torah is changed when we state the 'old' is completed and the 'new' has began. This new was spoken from the begining. And we are told that this 'old' Torah given to Moshe in no way nullifies the 'promise' given earlier to Avraham. That EVERYONE who 'believes', has faith in Yeshua would be saved and called children of YHVH.

ALL Torah pointed and lead to Yeshua HaMoshiach. And FAITH was at it's core. Faith in the salvation that comes from YHVH. Not only in a part of the message that commanded a people in a certain time to be a certain way.

EVERY yud and stroke of the Torah speaks of FAITH in Yeshua. Yet many place faith in the words not Elohim who spoke them.

Havakuk 2:3 For the vision is meant for its appointed time; it speaks of the end, and it does not lie. It may take a while, but wait for it; it will surely come, it will not delay. 4 "Look at the proud: he is inwardly not upright; but the righteous will attain life through trusting faithfulness.

The 'appointed time; it speaks of the end, and does not lie. Just like Moshe and the part of the Torah given to him had it's 'appointed time' so too does the Good News given by Yeshua, promised from the begining.

Yet we are going to take ONE verse and add it to another and thus change the whole message?

You are to observe my laws and rulings; if a person does them, he will have life through them; I am ADONAI.

Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened.

Well, It may take a while, but wait for it; it will surely come, it will not delay. "Look at the proud: he is inwardly not upright; but the righteous will attain life through trusting faithfulness.





B'midbar 5:6 "Tell the people of Isra'el, 'When a man or woman commits any kind of sin against another person and thus breaks faith with ADONAI, he incurs guilt.



31:16 Why, these are the ones who - because of Bil'am's advice -caused the people of Isra'el to rebel, breaking faith with ADONAI in the P'or incident, so that the plague broke out among ADONAI's community!



D'varim 32:51 The reason for this is that both of you broke faith with me there among the people of Isra'el at the M'rivat-Kadesh Spring, in the Tzin Desert; you failed to demonstrate my holiness there among the people of Isra'el.



1 Chron 5:25 But they broke faith with the God of their ancestors and prostituted themselves to the gods of the peoples of the land, whom God had destroyed ahead of them.



Nechemyah 1:8 Remember, please, the word you gave through your servant Moshe, 'If you break faith, I will scatter you among the peoples;



Tehillim 25:3 No one waiting for you will be disgraced; disgrace awaits those who break faith for no reason.



78: 21 Therefore, when ADONAI heard, he was angry; fire blazed up against Ya'akov; his anger mounted against Isra'el; 22 because they had no faith in God, no trust in his power to save.



32 Still, they kept on sinning and put no faith in his wonders.


146:6 He made heaven and earth, the sea and everything in them; he keeps faith forever.


Yesha'yahu 26:2 Open the gates! Let the righteous nation enter, a nation that keeps faith!

Yechezkiel 17:20 I will spread my net over him, and he will be caught in my snare; I will bring him to Bavel and bring him to judgment there for breaking faith with me.

20:27 "Therefore, human being, speak to the house of Isra'el; tell them that Adonai ELOHIM says, 'Moreover, your ancestors blasphemed me by breaking faith with me in still another way:

39:23 while the Goyim will know that the house of Isra'el went into exile because of their guilt, because they broke faith with me; so that I hid my face from them and handed them over to their adversaries; and they fell by the sword, all of them.

39:26 They will bear their shame and all their [guilt from] breaking faith with me, once they are living securely in their land, with no one to make them afraid.

Daniel 9:7 "To you, Adonai, belongs righteousness; but to us today belongs shame - to us, the men of Y'hudah, the inhabitants of Yerushalayim and all Isra'el, including those nearby and those far away, throughout all the countries where you have driven them; because they broke faith with you.

Malachi 2:10 Don't we all have the same father? Didn't one God create us all? Then why do we break faith with each other, profaning the covenant of our ancestors?

2:11 Y'hudah has broken faith; an abomination has been committed in Isra'el and Yerushalayim. For Y'hudah has profaned the sanctuary of ADONAI, which he loves, by marrying the daughter of a foreign god.

2:14 Nevertheless, you ask, "Why is this?" Because ADONAI is witness between you and the wife of your youth that you have broken faith with her, though she is your companion, your wife by covenant.

2:15 And hasn't he made [them] one [flesh] in order to have spiritual blood-relatives? For what the one [flesh] seeks is a seed from God. Therefore, take heed to your spirit, and don't break faith with the wife of your youth.

2:16 "For I hate divorce," says ADONAI the God of Isra'el, "and him who covers his clothing with violence," says ADONAI-Tzva'ot. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and don't break faith.

Mattityahu 26:31 Yeshua then said to them, "Tonight you will all lose faith in me, as the Tanakh says, `I will strike the shepherd dead, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

Acts 6:7 So the word of God continued to spread. The number of talmidim in Yerushalayim increased rapidly, and a large crowd of cohanim were becoming obedient to the faith.

14:9 This man listened to Sha'ul speaking. Sha'ul, looking at him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed,

14:22 strengthening the talmidim, encouraging them to remain true to the faith, and reminding them that it is through many hardships that we must enter the Kingdom of God.

16:5 Accordingly, the congregations were strengthened in the faith and increased in number day by day.

Titus 3:16 Great beyond all question is the formerly hidden truth underlying our faith: He was manifested physically and proved righteous spiritually, seen by angels and proclaimed among the nations, trusted throughout the world and raised up in glory to heaven.

2 Tim 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since "The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful

Hebrews 10:38 And a righteous person will live by faith. But I will have no pleasure in anyone who turns away.

Havakuk 2:3 For the vision is meant for its appointed time; it speaks of the end, and it does not lie. It may take a while, but wait for it; it will surely come, it will not delay. 4 "Look at the proud: he is inwardly not upright; but the righteous will attain life through trusting faithfulness.

Yeshua is my shepherd, he restores my soul. IT IS YOU!!!

FAITH was the message THROUGHOUT Torah. Faith is the breath, the Ruach that flows through it's being. Without Faith your observances were MEANINGLESS. And to observe things that were once given at their appointed time but now fulfilled in the life and reserection of Yeshua is as faithless as it gets. IMHO

Yeshua came and spoke the Good News that he prepared from the begining and many are NOT believing it (faithless), not believing that he came as our ETERNAL Cohen HaGadol, replacing the shadow with the light. Fulfilling EVERY word within Torah, every Yud and stroke. That FAITH would attain the righeousness of his children. THROUGH the seed given to Avraham, Yitzak, Ya'akov, and Moshe. This seed of faith came 'through' all promises and covenants. Faith IS the heart of Torah. Without Faith it is impossible to please YHVH. (Heb 11:6)

I have faith that; He was manifested physically and proved righteous spiritually, seen by angels and proclaimed among the nations, trusted throughout the world and raised up in glory to heaven.

My faith is in what HE did and does for me/us. I don't believe he came to make it possible to 'legalisticly observe" the Torah mitzvot as defined to those given the physical land of Yisrael in their time. He didn't make it possible for US to walk the 'shadow' out perfectly, he came and did that himself, so we could live in the 'light', in Truth. He did not come to make the whole world 'Jewish'. (and I am of Jewish blood) He came to make the whole world "children of YHVH". It happend 'through' the Torah. It was patterned and shadowed in the mitzvot given Moshe to Yisrael when they entered the land promised. Now we have a 'more perfect word' given to us. Namely Yeshua HaMoshiach, Torat HaChayim. Who came to bring FAITH to the world. Because Yisrael had broken it. But that was planned. Like the breaking of the sheath of grain, or the cracking of the seed as it's life springs forth, so it can grow into a huge tree. How can a tree grow if you place the seed covering on it? As if this were even possible. The empty sheath does not fit the ever growing sprout that grows 100's of times larger than the seed ever was.

Faith, the Good News, IS the core, the meaning of Torah. It's goal, it's reason for existing. EVERY Yud and stroke is being accomplished when 'the righteous live by Faith'. Faith in what Yeshua accomplished, not that he made YOU able to accomplish Torah mitzvot that only he could do by his life and reserection. But by doing so he made YOU able to receive the GOAL of Torah. Faith that leads to life. Not completed mitzvot.

[plum]

Great Scripture passages there! Thanks shimshon for that explication.

[Sephania]

Fulfilling EVERY word within Torah, every Yud and stroke.



I don't understand what you are saying achi, do you mean he fulfilled All of Torah, all the Moedim? all the mitzot? including those for Women? :scratch:

[Shimshon]

I don't understand what you are syaing achi, do you mean he fulfilled All of Torah, all the Moedim? all the mitzot? including those for Women? :scratch:

o.k. take the work 'fulfilled' and use 'embodies'. He embodies all of Torah, all the Moedim, all the mitzvot, including those for women yes. In Yeshua all these things have their purpose and meaning.

Torah as defined to Moshe has now seen it's 'embodiment', in the flesh. Torah as defined to Avraham has seen it's 'embodiment', the seed became flesh and the 'father' of many nations (goyim). Torah as defined to Noach has seen it's 'embodiment', a living ark able to carry the world within it's heart over the flood of sin that covers the world. Torah as defined to Adama and Chavah has seen it's embodiment, thier desendant has bruised the serpents head and the serpent has bruised Yeshua's heel.

All Torah has it's fulfillment, it's embodiment in the LIFE of Yeshua. The 'essence' of the salvation of YHVH.

Yeshua has embodied, lived out, walked out, the essence of Torah. For both men and women Zayit. This question in my opinion is based on a physical way of seeing things. (please no offense ment). A legalistic way instead of a spiritual way. Of course Yeshua did not observe the mitzvot of 'niddah'. But he embodied it. It pointed to him. And by his life and reseretion he 'fulfilled' it. Now we don't go around expecting women to say "unclean!!!" Because touching her will not make you 'unclean' physically, but spiritually. Because you 'broke faith' and did not observe the instruction given. Am I 'unclean' because I shook my wifes hand, or because I broke the command? Willfully or unknowingly. I am guilty NOT because I 'touched' something that was declared unclean. But because it was declared unclean, AND I touched it. Some will cry 'symantics' but then again isn't hasatan a VERY symantical being? Is he not using 'symantics' AGAINST us?

"Surely you won't die?"

Now I know Yom Kippur and the fall feast are yet to occur. But I believe the Torah Moshe was given has been realized in the embodiment of Yeshua, Torat HaChayim. The living Torah.

Zayit, can a woman fulfill Torah mitzvot as given to Moshe and Yisrael? Can a man for that matter? No, because the levitical system has been transformed. So to the Torah. If you believe the writter of Hebrews that is. Who professed to witness the testimony of Yeshua. The physical Temple disappeared with Yeshua. The people were scattered just as promised. Salvation was given, attained, the process excelerated by the applying of Yeshua's blood to the people. Now the door was open for all to walk through. Jew and Goy. We were told to make talmidim of the nations. Were the talmidim Super-Torah observers? Doing ALL the mitzvot in the Torah given to Moshe? or were they Super-Torah observers by letting faith reign in their hearts? Faith that leads to life. Not physical observances given to a people for an appointed time, place and season. Torah does not disappear. It becomes INWARD. It is not the bending tree but the blowing wind.

[plum]

Though I agree with this:
"Torah does not disappear. It becomes INWARD."

I simply still do not understand WHAT that means. What does it look like in my life (Gentile here) to have Torah written on my heart? I think people spiritualize it to a point of confusing me to bits! hehe. What does it look like to live like that? Do you still follow the mitzvot or... not? goodness me.

[Shimshon]

o.k. use the parable of the good samaritan. We have a cohen and a levi who observed the law and did not touch or come near a man baddly beaten, probably bleeding and needing help (legalistic Torah observance) Yet we have a person who wasn't even considered to be part of Yisrael because of the 'lack' of Torah observance according to the cohanim and levi'im. But, he 'was moved with compassion'. (go learn what this means, I desire mercy over animal sacrifices). He who was NOT observing Torah according to his 'fathers' OBSERVED Torah according to Abba.

The one who showed mercy toward him." Yeshua said to him, "You go and do as he did."

What does it look like to live like that? It looks like LOVE!!! Do you know love (Yeshua)? That he loved so much he came to serve us completely by his life and death and reserection.

"You know that among the Goyim, those who are supposed to rule them become tyrants, and their superiors become dictators. 26 Among you, it must not be like that. On the contrary, whoever among you wants to be a leader must become your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave! 28 For the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve -- and to give his life as a ransom for many."

You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.' 38 This is the greatest and most important mitzvah. 39 And a second is similar to it, `You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot."

Tell me, what does it look like to love YHVH with all your being and your neighbor as yourself? I think it looks like Yeshua. I think it looks like love; patient and kind, not jealous, not boastful, not proud, rude or selfish, not easily angered, and it keeps no record of wrongs, does not gloat over other people's sins but takes its delight in the truth, always bears up, always trusts, always hopes, always endures.

For this very reason, try your hardest to furnish your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge, 6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with perseverance, perseverance with godliness, 7 godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if you have these qualities in abundance, they keep you from being barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah. 9 Indeed, whoever lacks them is blind, so shortsighted that he forgets that his past sins have been washed away. 10 Therefore, brothers, try even harder to make your being called and chosen a certainty. For if you keep doing this, you will never stumble. 11 Thus you will be generously supplied with everything you need to enter the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah.

[Wags]

Though I agree with this:
"Torah does not disappear. It becomes INWARD."

I simply still do not understand WHAT that means. What does it look like in my life (Gentile here) to have Torah written on my heart? I think people spiritualize it to a point of confusing me to bits! hehe. What does it look like to live like that? Do you still follow the mitzvot or... not? goodness me.

I too was wondering exactly what Shimshon meant - perhaps he can supply a straight forward answer.

[Sephania]

I may be being dense here, but dense does serve a purpose because it allows more questions and answers ;) . Now I understand in Yeshua there is not Jew or Gentile, nor man nor woman, nor free nor slave, however that is in the spiritual sense because there are still men and women, Jews and gentiles and tohose who are free and those in bondage,but we still live our lives bound by the physical, the flesh, we can't escape this until he tells us we can ( until our appointed time - the days of our life on earth that he had already prescribed), so in the flesh there are distinctions, a male and female, after their own kind..................

Women will tell you that we are still under the same curse in the garden, and men, you know that you are as well, you struggle to get your food from the ground, or in a round about way with a "job" but we still struggle, the earth is still under the curse. So I agree in the spiritual we are all the same, equal in his eyes, yet we have a role to play in our flesh on earth and I believe we must therefore walk in this way, witnessing to whom we belong and that is done by following the "guidelines" (how's that ;) )? of Torah, to show whom we belong to and are set-apart unto.

[Shimshon]

Yes, we are 'in' the world but we are not 'of' the world. We have bodies that die, but "by faith" this body will live forever. There are free and slaves still, but in union with Yeshua HaMoshiach we are free, of sin and living within the Kingdom of YHVH as heirs even though we have yet to receive our kingdom. Or is Yeshua GOING to be the king? No he is king now, and his kingdom is in the hearts of his children. Soon it will be in every corner of the world.

Yes, there are men and women still. But in union with Yeshua we are both seen as One in his sight. The man, serving the women, who serves the man. Complete harmony. With us in Moshiach we live in harmony. But those of the world, without him harmonize only within the greed of their hearts. They are One as long as they both are served by the other. Not so, they would be One as long as they both 'served' each other. Not if they seek to be served by the other.

Jew and Goy are still, but in union with Yeshua they are One. Jews walk Torah in Spirit and Truth (Faith), the same as the goy. Both are called to the same 'instructions'. Love YHVH in Spirit and Truth.

Now notice this. Jew/Goy, Man/Woman, Free/Slave. In the 'natural' world the Jew is over the goy, the Man is over the Woman, and the free is over the slave. But in Yeshua's kingdom ALL are equal.

Think of this as well. In Noach's ark, why didn't the meat eaters and poisonous insects attack the others? It was the 'Torah' YHVH gave them as beings. 'You eat meat, you defend yourself by leathal injection" But these "Torah" were NOT observed in this situation because of why? Because they were given instruction (Torah) by YHVH NOT to hurt the other because in THIS case they were all ONE. The Torah of fight or flight was 'tranformed'. The lion who was instructed by nature to dominate other animals remained docile so as to be gathered in a small ark. I know it probably had cages, but try and keep a floating zoo calm with just a family of 8. YHVH 'transformed' their Torah, their outward way of being from within their hearts. Now creatures who would usually be agressive or 'holy' (jews) had to cohabitate with the timid or 'unholy' (goyim). Now creatures who would usually tear a panda to peices (freeman) had to treat them as equal (slave). Now those who dominated over the rest (men) had to treat them as equal (woman).

The physical says 'everything is just the way it was since the beginning of creation'. But the Spiritual says 'Rejoice, you barren woman who does not bear children! Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor! For the deserted wife will have more children than the one whose husband is with her!"

[Sephania]

:scratch: Shimshon, I just don't get your analogy, not to mention you didn't really answer my questions. The animals that were taken on the ark were all herbivors, thus there would have been no lions having lamb chops for dinner. ;)

But that changed after the flood, just like Noach and his familia were all herbivors but it was given after the flood, after they disembarked to eat flesh.

b'resheet 9:1 God blessed Noach and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will be upon every wild animal, every bird in the air, every creature populating the ground, and all the fish in the sea; they have been handed over to you.

There was no fear of each other before the flood nor while on the ark, nor amoung themselves.

3 Every moving thing that lives will be food for you; just as I gave you green plants before, so now I give you everything - 4 only flesh with its life, which is its blood, you are not to eat.

In the coming kingdom it is to return that way, but it isn't now

The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion eat straw like an ox (but the serpent - its food will be dust). They will not hurt or destroy anywhere on my holy mountain," says ADONAI. The wolf will live with the lamb; the leopard lie down with the kid; calf, young lion and fattened lamb together, with a little child to lead them.

This is the return to Gan Eden.

[Shimshon]

The animals that were taken on the ark were all herbivors, thus there would have been no lions having lamb chops for dinner. ;)


O.k. I will concede on this point, that they were 'created' herbivors. (Though I wonder why a herbavor was given meat eating teeth, or did lions and the like develop or 'evolve' canines?
29 Then God said, "Here! Throughout the whole earth I am giving you as food every seed-bearing plant and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. 30 And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant." And that is how it was.


But that changed after the flood, just like Noach and his familia were all herbivors but it was given after the flood, after they disembarked to eat flesh.



But the reason I mentioned this in the first place was because the rest of mankind and all other living beings did not remain in the state they were 'created' in. And this happend 'before' the flood.

7 ADONAI said, "I will wipe out humankind, whom I have created, from the whole earth; and not only human beings, but animals, creeping things and birds in the air; for I regret that I ever made them."
11 The earth was corrupt before God, the earth was filled with violence. 12 God saw the earth, and, yes, it was corrupt; for all living beings had corrupted their ways on the earth.


b'resheet 9:1 God blessed Noach and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will be upon every wild animal, every bird in the air, every creature populating the ground, and all the fish in the sea; they have been handed over to you.

There was no fear of each other before the flood nor while on the ark, nor amoung themselves.


Again, if 'all living beings had corrupted their ways", and YHVH grieved in his heart and regreted ever making them and us because of this violence and 'evil ways'. I would say fear was abounding.

Yes, man and the animals, every living creature were created to only eat herbs at this time. But did they listen? If so, why was YHVH destroying them?

And to relate this to my 'analogy'. Yes, the Jews were created and to only eat Torah as defined through Moshe at that time. But did they listen? If so, why did YHVH destroy them as a nation? So he took the ONLY righteous person, Yeshua, and told him to gather all clean and unclean things (Jew and Goy) from the earth into his heart (ark). ALL were corrupt (violent) but some listened to the 'good news' and entered the ark, where they were instructed to return to the condition they were created in, BEFORE they twisted the Torah (instructions) given, by the power of YHVH. They were violent and murderous no more. They lived by the Ruach given them. But the ones who would not listen and did not live by the Ruach cause they rejected him did not enter the ark and were destroyed by the flood.

Those who do not listen to the 'Good News' and believe it will not enter the Ark of his covenant (his heart) and thus be saved from the wrath to cover the earth.

[Sephania]

O.k. I will concede on this point, that they were 'created' herbivors. (Though I wonder why a herbavor was given meat eating teeth, or did lions and the like develop or 'evolve' canines?


But the reason I mentioned this in the first place was because the rest of mankind and all other living beings did not remain in the state they were 'created' in. And this happend 'before' the flood.


Again, if 'all living beings had corrupted their ways", and YHVH grieved in his heart and regreted ever making them and us because of this violence and 'evil ways'. I would say fear was abounding.

Yes, man and the animals, every living creature were created to only eat herbs at this time. But did they listen? If so, why was YHVH destroying them?
When Adonai made them he knew what He wanted them to do , and He also knew what would happen. No, I don't believe that the carnivores grew special teeth after the flood, animals with huge teeth can actually be more gentle then ones many times smaller in size ( remind me to tell you about a Rotweiller and pug I used to have.) ;)

I believe that corruption of His creation happened just as He said it did, and it was not just with mankind, but all flesh was corrupted. I don't believe the animals that were corrupted made it onto the ark, therefore they would not be violent, just like only Noach and his family who were not corrupted were the only ones allowed on the ark.

[visionary]

So clean and unclean animals were not determined by their appetite?

Gen 6:19 "From everything living, from each kind of living being, you are to bring two into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they are to be male and female. 20 Of each kind of bird, each kind of livestock, and each kind of animal creeping on the ground, two are to come to you, so that they can be kept alive. 21 Also take from all the kinds of food that are eaten, and collect it for yourself; it is to be food for you and for them." That definitely suggests a vegetarian diet. So what is the purpose of clean and unclean animals before meat eating?

[beej7]

Shimshon: I am amazed, but I get it. His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts...we may not know all the answers today, but one day we will. This is so simplistic after your lengthy piece, but it really spoke to my heart about His love to us...and how personal His love is.

Good job, Todah!

Beej