vitamin battle rages in EU

[visionary]

EU Parliament Classifies Vitamins As Drugs
Cosmiverse.com

May 01, 2002

Many are outraged at the European Parliament's March 13th decision to pass the "EU Directive on Dietary Supplements". The directive labels vitamins and natural remedies such as lysine, chromium picolinate and selenium as medical drugs rather than the current classification of "food supplements".

In 2005 it will be illegal to sell these supplements over-the-counter in every European Union (EU) country. It will be required that those wanting to use the supplements obtain a prescription from a doctor.

Many believe that the directive has been pushed by the pharmaceutical companies for their own financial benefit rather than the Parliament's claim that it is for the protection of consumers. If consumers can no longer purchase supplements over-the-counter, pharmaceutical companies will eliminate competition.

Those claiming this conspiracy support their belief by citing the example of Frits Bolkenstein, a well known EU Commissioner. Bolkenstein is also a member of the advisory board of Merck, Sharp and Dohme, the second largest pharmaceutical company in the world.

604 million people have already expressed their displeasure at the directive by signing a global on-line petition to maintain free access to natural remedies. Many signers include United States citizens as well.

Considering the fact that the United States and the European Union are each other's largest trade and investment partners many fear that the US could try to adopt similar legislation.

Source: Health Sciences Institute

[visionary]

Last Updated: Friday, 30 January, 2004, 15:33 GMT

Court victory for vitamin firms

An estimated 10m Britons take vitamin supplements. Groups opposed to new EU rules on vitamins and food supplements have won their fight to take the matter to the European Court of Justice. The High Court in London ruled on Friday that their case could be referred to judges in Luxembourg.

The European Commission wants to tighten up the rules on food supplements from August 2005.

However, opponents say it will lead to thousands of products being taken off shelves in the UK and elsewhere.

New restrictions

Under the new rules, only vitamins and minerals on an approved list can be used in supplements. There will also be restrictions on the upper limits of vitamin doses.

Industry and some patient groups want the EU directive scrapped, which only the European Court can do.

Mr Justice Richards had been asked to refer the directive to the European Court on the grounds that it was unlawful and would unfairly affect millions of people, threatening both health and trade.

Agreeing to the request, the judge ruled there was "an arguable case" and the reference "is plainly appropriate and should be made as soon as possible".

The UK government had opposed the move.

Lawyers representing some of the groups told the High Court that the directive would have a "severe impact" on the sale of many "small niche" products.

Conor Quigley QC also suggested it did not have "a proper legal basis".

Andrew Lockley, a solicitor representing health food stores and manufacturers, welcomed the ruling.

"My clients are glad and relieved that their concerns about this wide-ranging directive and its effect on the health food industry and its customers in the UK have been recognised.

"They look forward to carrying on the battle to overturn the directive at the European Court of Justice."

Speaking earlier, Paoli Pestori, director of food safety at the European Commission, told the BBC's Radio 4 Today programme, the new rules would protect the public.

"The directive will not ban any product. The aim is to ensure that vitamin and mineral pills which are marketed as food supplements are safe and properly labelled."

She said there would be a list of approved products which can be sold, and in addition, individual countries could approve others - if they had a safety record put forward before 2005.

But David Hinde of the Alliance for Natural Health, which represents patients and industry, said the directive could mean thousands of products were no longer be available.

He said obtaining a safety record could cost up to £250,000 per product.

"Under the law here, you do not need to have a safety record for food supplements. "It's a fundamental change in the law that is being proposed here."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3445503.stm

[visionary]

For people that do not understand how big this network is....think of it this way, it affects every drop of food and drink besides the vitamins and minerals you take in.

EU probes vitamins cartel

Commission follows up US fines for price-fixing pharmaceuticals companies

By Julie Wolf in Brussels
Saturday May 22, 1999

The European Commission said yesterday it was investigating vitamin price fixing cartels a day after the US imposed record fines on two European pharmaceutical companies accused of running an international cartel.
The commission said its inquiries were at an advanced stage. Although the companies under investigation have not been officially identified, sources said they include Switzerland's Roche and Germany's BASF, the companies fined in the US.

Roche's chief executive, Franz Humer, said yesterday that the company had contacted the commission after agreeing to settle the US case. He said he expected the commission's investigation to last for some months.

Roche and BASF pleaded guilty on Thursday in a US district court in Dallas to conspiring to fix prices for vitamins. Roche agreed to pay a $500m fine, while BASF will pay $225m to settle charges by the US Justice Department.

France's Rhone-Polenc, which was in the price fixing ring, was spared punishment after co-operating with US regulators. The three companies have 75% of the US's $3bn annual market for vitamins.

Although the EU's competition authority has never imposed such high penalties on a single company, it is likely to follow suit with heavy fines if its evidence is as convincing as that obtained by US officials. The commission and US justice department are working increasingly closely in competition cases, although the two authorities can exchange 'privileged' information only if companies let them, commission officials said.

The starting point for calculating fines for serious cartels is $20m (£13.2m), a commission official said. The commission said several of the companies being investigated were co-operating. EU competition law allows for lower fines to be imposed on firms that help out in cartel investigations.

In the US case, a former senior marketing executive at Roche faces a $100,000 fine and a four-month prison sentence for his role in the price fixing conspiracy and subsequent cover up.

Roche, BASF, Rhone-Polenc and American and Japanese companies also face court claims for millions of dollars in damages in suits brought by bulk vitamin customers, including livestock farmers. The inflated prices imposed by the cartel affected products ranging from animal feed to breakfast cereals, according to the US justice department.

The cartel 'is the most pervasive and harmful criminal anti-trust conspiracy ever uncovered', said Joel Klein, who heads the justice department's anti-trust division and who is embroiled in the case against Microsoft, the computer software producer.

Mr Klein said the price fixing cartel 'hurt the pocket book of virtually every American consumer, anyone who took a vitamin, drank a glass of milk, or had a bowl of cereal'. Evidence gathered by US investigators in the vitamins cartel showed that the companies dictated all aspects of vitamin sales. The cartel's executive met annually to fix a budget in an arrangement known by some participants as 'Vitamins Inc' .

Roche, the world's biggest maker of vitamins, yesterday told a press conference that the fine would not affect its long-term financial outlook. Nonetheless, Roche's chief executive said the company was extremely angry about the affair. The executives involved in running the cartel have been dismissed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,295228,00.html

[MyZz]

Yes the vitamin battle is raging and it does look grim below is a link to the supplements that will be allowed to be manufactured,bought and soldhttp://www.alliance-natural-health.org/_docs/ANHwebsiteDoc_10.pdf

a large number of supplements are not on this list and this is a disaster for the health of the people who depend on the forbidden supplements.The way things stand now its going ahead for august 2005 which will become the cut-off point where they become illegal.However I do understand that companies will be given a certain time to phase them out.
It's all a disaster and when viewed in the light of what is recently happening to Terri this all looks so sinister.This move on supplements is targetting the ill and most vulnerable.Most of the supplements on the allowed list are in forms that are not favoured by nutritional therapists since they are inorganic and cannot be properly assimilated into the tissues or they give side effects.They are the supplements that are currently manufactured by pharmaceutical companies and no self respecting health practitioner would recommend those over the other more suitable alternatives which work beautifully.And now,they are being banned!!
It's not scare-mongering here in europe its a reality and much money and work has gone into fighting and lobbying this proposed legislation.
The lives and health of countless people are at risk.:cry:

[visionary]

MP Mark backs fight against EU vitamins ban
EDITORIAL - whtimes@archant.co.uk
16 March 2005
HERTFORD and Stortford MP Mark Prisk is fighting against new EU regulations that would see thousands of vitamin and mineral supplements banned from August 1.

The MP voted in favour of a cross-party motion in the House of Commons, calling on the Government to renegotiate the Food Supplements Directive.

At present there are over 300 safe and popular nutrients that are not on the permitted list.

Campaigners fear that unless safety dossiers are submitted and approved they could no longer be sold.

And they are worried that bringing in EU law on this subject will have an adverse effect on small retailers.

Consumers would also not have the right to buy their favourite brands, some of which would no longer be on sale.

The Government outvoted the motion, but it secured endorsement from different political parties.

Mr Prisk's support gained praise from health campaigners and the lobby group Consumers for Health Choice (CHC).

He said: "I'm pleased to support CHC's campaign. This Government has failed to protect us from this unnecessary EU directive. People should be free to choose."
Sue Croft, director of CHC, said: "This is a pernicious piece of legislation that will restrict the way we look after our health.

"Government negotiations on behalf of the public were at best half-hearted and have shown a distinct lack of interest and understanding.

"Mark voted in support of consumers in the Commons - but we need more. We would encourage all users of vitamins, minerals and herbal remedies to find out if their MP is prepared to challenge this directive."
More information on CHC can be found at www.healthchoice.org.uk

[visionary]

To learn the mechanics of how the rich and powerful move nations to do business their way.... you have to see the structure and function of the beast.

http://www.healthchoice.org.uk/codex/default.aspx

[visionary]

Revelation18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy pharmakeia were all nations deceived.
Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their pharmakeia, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.We often talk about the beast, and the whore among others of the book of Revelation. But none that I have read cover the fact that "by pharmakeia were the nation deceived."

This thread is about just that. Those companies that are involved in pharmakeia, those political groups that are involved in this deceptive mechanism. The deceptiveness of the medical drug world fostered as "good for your health". I have never known anyone to be deficient of a drug. It amazes me that Tv comercials pumping drugs was wonderful, list all the side effects which are far worse than the symptoms they are suppose to treat, and people do not hear it. That to me is one example of the power of this deception.

[visionary]

Missing Nutrients ~ the Full List
Published: Wednesday, 9th March 2005

Source: The Times T2

Today's article in The Times T2 ran out of space before they were able to show the full list of nutrients and nutrient sources missing from the Food Supplements Directive Positive Lists.

The National Association of Health Stores prepared the list below after months of extensive research on products sold throughout the UK.

If you compare the list below against the ingredients shown on the labels of your favourite supplements - and find any listed here, then your product will either need to be reformulated before the end of July 2005 to remove and ingredient 'not allowed by EU' - or the product may be removed from the market in just 4 months time.

Derogation can be achieved for some ingredients on the basis that a dossier has been submitted for approval to the Food Standards Agency; that derogation may last until 31 December 2009 - providing the European Food Standards Agency has not given the substance an unfavourable opinion.

Ingredients that have already obtainer derogation are marked with **; those that are likely to obtain derogation in the near future are marked ++.

LIST OF INGREDIENTS NOT ON THE FOOD SUPPLEMENTS DIRECTIVE POSITIVE LISTS:-

ALL ultra-trace elements

ALL protein-bound vitamins & Minerals

Octothiamine
Thiamin-5-phosphate ++
Thiamin co-carboxylase
Thiamin

pyrophosphate Nicidimide adenine dinucleotide
Inositol Hexaniacinate
Magnesium Pantothenate
Pantethine

Pyridoxamine
Pyridoxine alpha-Ketoglutarate
Dibencozide

Boron
Boron Amino Acid Chelate
Boron Ascorbate
Boron Aspartate
Boron Citrate
Boron Fumarate
Boron Gluconate
Boron Glycinate
Boron Lysinate
Boron Picolinate
Boron Proteinate
Boric Acid **
Sodium Borate / Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate **

Ascorbyl Glycerate
Ester C ingredients **
Magnesium Ascorbate ++
Manganese Ascorbate ++
Niacinamide ascorbate

Calcium Amino Acid Chelate **
Calcium Arginate
Calcium Aspartate
Calcium Borogluconate
Calcium Citrate Malate
Calcium Cysteinate
Calcium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Calcium Fluoride ++
Calcium Folinate
Calcium Fructoheptonate
Calcium Fumarate
Calcium Glucoheptonate
Calcium Glycinate
Calcium Glytamate
Calcium Hydroxyapatite
Calcium Ketoglutarate
Calcium Lysinate
Calcium Malate
Calcium Methionate
Calcium Orotate
Calcium Phosphinate
Calcium Phosphoserine
Calcium Pidolate
Calcium Pyruvate
Calcium Silicate ++
Calcium Succinate
Calcium Sulphate **
Calcium Tartrate
Calcium Taurate
Calcium Undecyclenate
Calcium Yeast ++
Dolomite

Chromium Amino Acid Chelate **
Chromium Arginate
Chromium Ascorbate
Chromium Aspartate
Chromium Chloride
Chromium Citrate
Chromium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Chromium Fluoride
Chromium Fumarate
Chromium Glutamate
Chromium Glycinate
Chromium Ketoglutarate
Chromium Malate
Chromium Niacinate
Chromium Nicotinoglycinate
Chromium Nitrate
Chromium Orotate
Chromium Picolinate ++
Chromium Polynicotinate / Niacinate **
Chromium Succinate
Chromium Trioxide
Chromium (GTF) Yeast ++

Cobalt
Cobalt Gluconate

Copper Acetate
Copper Amino Acid Chelate **
Copper Ascorbate
Copper Aspartate
Copper Ethanolamine Phosphate
Copper Glutamate
Copper Glycinate
Copper Histidinate
Copper Ketoglutarate
Copper Lysinate
Copper Malate
Copper Orotate
Copper Oxide
Copper Picolinate
Copper Sebacate
Copper Succinate
Copper Tyrosinate
Copper Yeast

Cholecalciferol - Cholesterin

d-beta-tocopherol
d-delta-tocopherol
d-gamma-tocopherol
Tocotrienols
Mixed Tocopherols ++

Calcium Fluoride

5-methyl-tetra-hydrofolate ++

Ferritin
Iron Amino Acid Chelate **
Iron Arginate
Iron Ascorbate
Iron Aspartate
Iron Bisglycinate **
Iron Ethanolamine Phosphate
Iron Glucoheptonate
Iron Glycinate Sulphate
Iron Histidinate
Iron Ketoglutarate
Iron Malate
Iron Orotate
Iron Oxide
Iron Pantothenate
Iron Peptonate
Iron Phosphate
Iron Picolinate
Iron Pidolate
Iron Succinate
Iron Yeast ++

Menadione
Menaquinone
Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate **
Magnesium Arginate
Magnesium Ascorbate ++
Magnesium Aspartate ++
Magnesium Cysteinate
Magnesium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Magnesium Fumarate
Magnesium Gallate
Magnesium Glucoheptonate
Magnesium Glutamate
Magnesium Glycinate
Magnesium Ketoglutarate
Magnesium Lysinate
Magnesium Malate ++
Magnesium Methionate
Magnesium Niacinate
Magnesium Trisilicate
Magnesium Orotate
Magnesium Pantothenate
Magnesium Phosphoserine
Magnesium Pyruvate
Magnesium Succinate
Magnesium Tartrate
Magnesium Taurate
Magnesium Yeast ++

Manganese Amino Acid Chelate **
Manganese Arginate
Manganese Ascorbate ++
Manganese Aspartate
Manganese Cysteinate
Manganese Ethanolamine Phosphate
Manganese Fumarate
Manganese Glycinate
Manganese Histidinate
Manganese Ketoglutarate
Manganese Lactate
Manganese Malate
Manganese Methionate
Manganese Orotate
Manganese Picolinate
Manganese Yeast

Molybdenum Amino Acid Chelate
Molybdenum Arginate
Molybdenum Ascorbate
Molybdenum Aspartate
Molybdenum Citrate
Molybdenum Ethanolamine Phosphate
Molybdenum Fumarate
Molybdenum Glycinate
Molybdenum Malate
Molybdenum Methionate
Molybdenum Picolinate
Molybdenum Trioxide
Molybdenum Yeast
Potassium Molybdate ++
Sodium Molybdate

Nickel
Nickel Sulphate (Hexhydrate)

Phosphorus Amino Acid Chelate
Phosphorus Aspartate
Phosphorus Proteinate
Phosphorus Yeast
Sodium Phosphate

Potassium Amino Acid Chelate
Potassium Arginate
Potassium Aspartate
Potassium Caprylate
Potassium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Potassium Fumarate
Potassium Glutamate
Potassium Ketoglutarate
Potassium Malate
Potassium Orotate
Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Pyruvate
Potassium Salicylate
Potassium Sorbate
Potassium Succinate
Potassium Sulphate
Potassium Tartrate
Potassium Yeast

Selenium Amino Acid Chelate
Selenium Ascorbate
Selenium Citrate
Selenium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Selenium Fumarate
Selenium Glycinate
Selenium Lysinate
Selenium Malate
Selenium Picolinate
Selenium Succinate
Selenium Yeast **
Selenocysteine
Selenomethionine
Selenous Acid

Silicon
Algal silica
Colloidal silicic acid
Silicon Chelate
Silica Monomethylsilane Triol
Silicon Aspartate
Silicon Dioxide / Colloidal Silicic Acid ++
Silicon Ethanolamine Phosphate

Sodium Metasilicate
Silver
Sodium Caseinate
Sulphur AA Chelate

Tin
Tin Chloride

Vanadium
Bis-glycinato oxo vanadium
Sodium Metavanadate
Vanadium Amino Acid Chelate
Vanadium Ascorbate
Vanadium Aspartate
Vanadium Citrate
Vanadium Glycinate
Vanadium Oxide
Vanadium Picolinate
Vanadium Yeast
Vanadyl Sulphate

Zinc Amino Acid Chelate **
Zinc Arginate
Zinc Ascorbate ++
Zinc Aspartate
Zinc Caprylate
Zinc Cysteinate
Zinc Ethanolamine Phosphate
Zinc Fumarate
Zinc Glucoheptonate
Zinc Glutamate
Zinc Glycerophosphate
Zinc Glycinate
Zinc Histidinate
Zinc Ketoglutarate
Zinc Lysinate
Zinc Malate
Zinc Methionate ++
Zinc Orotate
Zinc Picolinate ++
Zinc Pidolate
Zinc Proteinate
Zinc Succinate
Zinc Tartrate
Zinc Taurate
Zinc Undecyclinate
Zinc Yeast ++

[Sephania]

So does this mean that this will happen in the European Union by July or here in the states as well? Does this also mean that food that is supplimented will also have the vitamins stripped from them like cereals, and such? What about school lunch programs? It sounded like to me that they were finally getting a grip on proper nutrition there as well as some of the fast food restuarants offereing fruit instead of fries.

Do you have any information on how this will affect the Kosher certified foods?

Also does this mean that we can't even have anything in our homes that contain these "illegal" vitamins? Are homes gonna be searched for this?

[MyZz]

Zayit ,foods that are supplemented such as breakfast cereals and bread are usually done with the cheaper and more chemicalised forms of the vitamins,the ones that are made by pharmaceutical companies and are on the allowed list

[visionary]

Zayit, foods that are supplemented such as breakfast cereals and bread are usually done with the cheaper and more chemicalised forms of the vitamins,the ones that are made by pharmaceutical companies and are on the allowed listTake for example, d - "variety" - tocopherol .... if you are looking at a label of a vitamin or mineral with either a "d" or an "l" in front of it, you are looking at either "d" which is natural or "l" which is chemically manufactured or both with is "dl". By the way, "l" variety is like the wrong key jamming the lock in the cell door.

Another thing that you will notice is that all "chelated" vitamins or minerals have been put on the first to go list. "Chelate" minerals are awesome, and your body can absorb and utilitize these faster and more effectively. In fact, if you are looking at a label and you are noticing "ate" at the end, you are looking at a more readily absorbable and body friendly variety.

Realize what I have said are nothing more than a generalization that for the most part will serve you well. Another thing to understand, while the supplement may say that it has so much of such and such, it is the potency that is important, for that is where you will have bigger reactions. At the manufacture companies, they grade the herbs and minerals and vitamins by the potency, and the cheaper your bottle of supplements the less potency. Another thing to do is when you open the bottle, smell it, if it starting to have no smell, or smells a little dusty then it has lost its potency.

Then comes the day when we will have to gather from the woodlands and get our supplements raw. We will need to train ourselves to know what natural forest and woodland flora is good for us and how to harvest it and what it is good for. We should also learn how to determine how much to use and when to use it.

What you can do to determine if your body really needs what in it, is smell it, and your body will actually not mind the smell. If your body has more than enough, then your body will reject the smell. The good Lord has given us six senses, and they are what we need to listen to, we need to appreciate the good senses God has given us. On herbs, it may be bitter, neutral, or nice. Nice is good. Neutral is fine. Body reject is your signal, it really doesn't need it.

Remember these generalizations are to help you make judgment calls at home. If you want to test it, you can hold your arm out. Have someone test the resistence level of the arm by applying pressure on the forarm to get a feel at what your normal resistence level is. This is not a strength test. Then put the pill on your tongue and have them test it again. If there is a change in the resistence level, stronger and better resistence, it means the body needs it. Weaker and less resistence means the body rejects it. If you or the testor can not determine a difference. Then you are at a neutral level. This test is called applied kinesiology. If you are getting a strong reaction, add another pill and test again. Keep doing it until the resistence goes weak or neutral... and that will determine your dosage. Remember the reason you are doing this is for therapuetic levels and will only need to be at this level for the duration of therapy. So make sure you do regular tests to back off.

Survival will depend on how much we learn to self sufficient. True, I beleive that there will be a total of seven years where it will get increasingly difficult, then the covenant of peace will be over, and the three and 1/2 years of living hell will be upon the face of the earth. That will be the time to head for the hills. The three and 1/2 years when Elijah moved in with the woman who had only a little flour and oil left but it lasted during the drought that covered the land during the "no rain" til the end of prophecy.

[visionary]

Such blind faith in the medical drug taught deceptions. Let me give you an example of dirty underhanded tricks.

People who have "acid reflux disease" believe what they have been told. Acid reflux disease is caused by too much acid which gets up in the esophogus.

Your stomach is made to have acid in it. When your acid level runs low, it is like a griddle with spitting oil. It burns whereever it is spitting outside the stomach wall.

When you take an anti-acid/medication, you are stopping or neutralizing the acid, depending whether you are blocking the production of the acid, or increasing the alkaline level. By doing so, you are changing the pH level in the stomach environment. Now it is more friendly to bacteria. Bacteria that can eat away at the lining of the stomach. By changing the pH you are also changing the capabilities for the stomach to break down the food as it should.

Let's suppose that this creates further problems down the intestinal tract for sake of discussion. This will increase the need for medical intervention for the new digestive problems, which in turn will increase the amount of medication. This medication could have a side effect and need another medication after continued use. Now you can have it get worse and need surgery. If not surgery, keep taking the medication, while the good doctor monitors it. He will be watching for severe side effects, adverse reactions, new developments, and will continue to add/subtract your medications as needed. If the medication is of the sort that wears and tears on the kidneys, they will breakdown eventually and then you will need to be on dialysis.

The success of the increase number of dialysis centers is due to the increase number of people taking medications that tear up the kidneys. To me it is a monument to the drug industry's success.

Next time you suffer from indigestion, or heartburn, try taking vinegar or lemon juice, usually just a tablespoon will do the trick. The pH level of lemon juice is about the same as stomach acid. When you reach normal acid levels the problem is solved. You will find that the problem will decrease in frequency and in intensity with lemon juice use when needed.

Ok, I am off my soap box....

[Sephania]

I have heard there are natural cures for cancer as well, something about the ph of your body.

[MyZz]

The nutritional treatment which has the best proven track record is the Gerson therapy,however since it is a treatment that concentrates on organic vegetable juices and no money is to be made from it by pharmaceutical companies it remains a very unpublicised treatment.funny how the cancer charity and self help organisations dont publicise it too much either.

it all revolves around money unfortunately.

[Sephania]

THE "True"g/d that this nation trusts in. :(

[visionary]

Revelation18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy pharmakeia were all nations deceived. Think about that for a moment, the voice of the bridegroom and the bride are not heard anymore in the boardroom. Satan has taken over the financial world, big conglomerates of continual evil, worship money, the root of all evil. There were three in this bed, the nations, the merchants, the beast with the image of the beast, and the whore with her harlots.

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their pharmakeia, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. White collar corruption that goes untouched, because they can afford to find the escape clause. There is one escape clause that they will not be able to get around. IT will be the day when the Lord does the judgment.

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Revelation 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.I think that is such a cool ending to a bad system.

[Shimshon]

A European judge has declared illegal a directive controlling the sale of some vitamins and other food supplements.



An advocate-general at the European Court of Justice, Leendert Geelhoed, said the directive -- to have become law this year -- was seriously deficient and broke basic legal principles, the Times of London reported Wednesday. The British health food industry hailed the ruling as a victory in its battle against the European Union directive, which would have outlawed 300 vitamin and mineral ingredients and resulted in the removal of more than 5,000 products from European store shelves. ...washington times (http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050406-044716-2624r.htm)

There is always hope!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Sephania]

I'm just gonna put my hope in that the manna will fall again, or some widow will have a replenishing barrel of flour. :)

[MyZz]

This came in a newsletter today
A GREAT VICTORY: EU ban on health supplements could be overturned

European legislation that was set to ban hundreds of vitamins and health supplements from August may have been overturned in an extraordinary 11th hour decision by the senior adviser to the European Court of Justice.
The ruling, by Advocate General Geelhoed, is the result of intense and exhaustive campaigning by the Alliance for Natural Health. His decision now has to be ratified by the other judges, but it is expected to receive 'the nod' in June.
If accepted, the Food Supplements Directive, which was set to ban around 75 per cent of supplements and health products currently on the market, will be shelved.
In a statement read out on Tuesday morning, Advocate General Geelhoed, pronounced that the directive infringes the principle of proportionality because basic principles of Community law, such as the requirements of legal protection, of legal certainty and of sound administration have not properly been taken into account.
If the Advocate General's recommendations are adopted, in effect, the ban on vitamin and mineral forms not included on the EU's 'Positive list,' due to come into effect on 1 August 2005, will be declared illegal. In essence, the positive list of allowable nutrient forms will be deemed to be too narrow, too restrictive, and based on flawed science.
This would avoid the totally irrational situations that the Food Supplements Directive would otherwise create. For example, synthetically produced selenium would have been allowed on the positive list, while the natural source found in Brazil nuts would not; synthetic forms of Vitamin E (often used in 'adverse' vitamin studies reported in the media) would be allowed, but the natural, most beneficial food forms would not.
"It is commendable that the EU Advocate General has seen through the flawed science and law of the Food Supplements Directive and reached his recommendations today," said Dr. Robert Verkerk, Executive Director of the ANH. "All that ANH is campaigning and working cooperatively for is the right for consumers to have access to safe natural healthcare and for legislation to be based on good science and good law. This is a great day for the tens of millions of people who believe passionately in the benefits of natural, preventative healthcare."

Great news :clap:

[Sephania]

Could be, may have been?

Keep :pray: N

[visionary]

Praise the Lord, but the battle is not over yet. Those conglomerates will be workig behind the scenes for every which way possible to shut down the nutritional health food industry. Please continue to pray and participate for your and your family's health.

[visionary]

Up until this point, compliance with Codex standards has been voluntary. Yet, that is only the start of the “Boiling Frog” strategy. First, as you may have heard, allowable supplements will be reduced to a handful of ultra low-dose, synthetic vitamins and minerals. Then, incredibly -- without public intervention and outcry -- starting this year in phases, CODEX will go on to do these things:


Prohibit the use of any natural substance to prevent, treat or cure disease.

Legalize genetically modified organisms (GMOs), mandate antibiotics and hormones in animal feed.

Hoist allowable pesticides, toxin and drug levels in foods, making organics inaccessible.

Even eventually prohibit the traditional herbs and medicines indigenous cultures have used for thousands of years.


CODEX is not just about vitamins and minerals, although this is the most acute issue today. It will negatively impact agriculture and economies too. It’s predicted that if CAFTA passes, for example, U.S. corn exports to Central America would increase by 10,000 percent in the first year. In the first 10 years after NAFTA went into effect, 1.7 million farmers, who make up the majority of the population there, lost their land.


Who is Behind Codex?

The pharmaceutical, chemical and agribusiness corporations stand to make huge amounts of money from CODEX. Well-funded, massive disinformation campaigns, half-truth, half-lie “spin” websites like www.snopes.com, as well as infiltration and control of trade organizations supposedly designed to protect the health food and supplement industries, are all smoke-and-mirror tactics of these three “Big” interests.


So, if you have heard of CODEX at all, it may have been from industry or government or even trade group assurances that it is a hoax, beneficial to you, or even both. Don’t be misled by the massive disinformation campaign. It’s easy to just go along and rely on the opinions of so-called “experts”, the government and others, but as a veteran health advocate who has worked for years, like Dr. Mercola, to champion Natural Health, I can assure you that this is no time to take anything for granted or allow yourself to be lulled into complacency.


There is enough smoke about this issue – you will be hearing more about it here and elsewhere in the coming weeks – to warrant making this a priority to understand, act on and spread the word.


Who Stands To Gain The Most?


Pharmaceutical, agricultural and chemical companies, including the makers of Vioxx with a litany of 139,000 deaths, just accused by the House Committee on Government Reform of both withholding the truth and releasing misleading information about the increase heart attack dangers of this drug five years ago!


Dr. Sherri Tenpenny’s analysis: “Since it has become an indisputable scientific fact that NUTRITION is the best PREVENTION and CURE of disease, the owners of the “sickness industry” are determined to remove this ECONOMIC THREAT to their MONOPOLY CONTROL … by regulating nutrients out of the open marketplace and under the pharmaceutical umbrella where these nutrients become their property and they can exercise control over their availability.


CODEX is nothing more than “removing of all competition.” The issue is neither “safety” nor “protection.” Beware, for “He who protects you completely also OWNS you completely. i.h.”


Who Stands To Lose The Most?


We do. Our families and ourselves.


If we wait until there are no legal options besides drugs and contaminated foods, and no nutrients or ways to protect ourselves from pesticides, hormones and foreign genes in our food, how will we be able to keep our families and ourselves healthy?

What Can I DO?

DON’T WAIT. Start becoming educated and take action against CODEX et.al. NOW. You can:


Sign up to receive an automatic email list of articles, Web sites and “disinformation” Web sites, plus more detailed info on the CODEX issue, including sample letters to fax to Congress protesting CAFTA, our membership in the WTO and attempts to demolish our health choices, by visiting codex.nancyleebentley.com.

Call into FREE interactive teleconference phone calls on Wednesday and Thursday evenings at 9:00 p.m. EDT conducted by representatives of the newly formed Coalition for Health Freedom. (Wed., Thurs., 9 p.m. EDT, Dial: 712-824-4100, press 2 at prompt, then enter Access Code: CODEXNO# (2633966#) Learn more about this complex issue and what steps you can take to help protect your health freedom.

Request an informational meeting in your local area. Representatives of the Food Circle and the new Coalition are now scheduling a city-to-city awareness and action tour. With a local contact person willing to coordinate, you can request that your town or city be included as a stop on this action tour at codex.nancyleebentley.com.

[visionary]

http://www.mercola.com/2004/oct/13/vitamins_minerals.htm

website from which the last posting came from.

Three Steps and 11 Months to Diffuse the Ticking Time Bomb Threatening Your Access to Vitamins and Minerals

[Sephania]

Tell me Vis, are we as believers to take this "weapon formed against us" and focus all our attention on how we can defeat this, such as stock-piling vitamins, errecting gardens, etc, or are we to rely on our creator to not allow this to prosper against us?

[Ahavah]

I say..Learn how to make Colloidal Silver!!!!:thumbsup:

[Sephania]

Speaking of which, anyone here hear of SeaSilver, and if so, do you recomend it?

[visionary]

http://shop.toolsforhealing.com/RSG_3_Silver_Maker_p/sr-rsg3.htm

Save money ... buy the machine

Colloidal silver will be outlawed and I would not be surprised if it was by 2006.

[Sephania]

And what is that used for again?

[Shimshon]

I suppose this is the way people who arn't electroniclly sauve would have to address this situation. Sad thing is the price on the market is OUTRAGEOUS. It's just water, the fine silver rods costs less than $30 and last for years.

I can make one of those generaters for about $30 at the local electronics store, or radio shack. In fact, i'm doing so this weekend.

Zayit, it's used to make ionized silver water. You run a small voltage through fine silver as you submerse it in a glass of water. The silver sheds itself into the water. The ppm is related to the voltage and how long you leave the silver in. It is said to have HUGE healing properties. I for one have see it myself. People make it for themselves and usually drink about a glass a day. Some do more than that when ill.

We sprayed some on Chana's lip last week cause she bit it. It was healed by that very night. It's remedies are numerous. I believe it is an antibiotic. So the FDA is sticking it's nose in on this one. They don't want you to be able to fend for yourselves in any way.

[Ahavah]

And what is that used for again?Collial Silver is great.
Visionary is the one who introduced me to it. Todah Vis!! It's really great.
You can use for anything..even on your pets..and IT's harmless.
I used it on baby ahavah's eyes when she had an infection..and within a coulple of days they were cleared up.
You can gargle with it for sore throats..you can use it for indigestion..use can use it for skin problems..and soOoOOOo much more.:thumbsup:

Use it on a cat..or use it on a bat..you can use it with a box..a fox..a goat or a coat.:D
I AM SAM I AM

[visionary]

It has the properties to clear up well over 666 different kinds of bacteria..... (thought you would like the number) HAHAHA

IT can be placed in every orfice of the body, and it works wonders. Thought you would like to see what FDA has found in their database so far.....

October 14th, 1999

Food and Drug Administration
U.S. Department Of Health and
Human Services
Public Health Service
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockville, MD 20857

Dear Sirs/Madam,

Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act and in regard your August 17th, 1999 ruling regarding colloidal silver, could you please supply the following documentation on which you based your decision?

1. The number of deaths related to the consumption of colloidal silver.

2. The number of allergic reactions to the consumptionof colloidal silver.

3. The number of harmful drug interactions from both OTC and prescription drugs when combined with colloidal silver.

4. The number of reported cases of Argyria from colloidal silver made with the AC or DC electrical process.

5. The number of cases of Argyria from colloidal silver that did not contain protein stabilizers.

Thank you for your time and consideration of this request.

Sincerely,

The FDA response:

Public Health Service
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Office of Training and Communication
Freedom of Information Staff HFD-205
5600 Fishers Lane 12 B 05
Rockville, Maryland 20857
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

November 3, 1999

In Response Refer to File: F99-22589

[ Name Removed ], WA 98408

Dear [ name removed ]:

This is in response to your request of 10/14/99, in which you requested adverse events associated with the use of Colloidal Silver. Your request was received in the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research on 10/25/99.

We have searched the records from FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS) and have been unable to locate any cases that would be responsive to your request.
Charges of $3.50 (Search $3.50, Review $0, Reproduction $0, Computer time $0) will be included in a monthly invoice. DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENT UNTIL YOU RECEIVE AN INVOICE.

If there are any problems with this response, please notify us in writing of your specific problem(s). Please reference the above file number.

Sincerely,

Hal Stepper
Freedom of Information Technician
Office of Training and Communications
Freedom of Information Staff, HFD-205

[visionary]

Silver-coated urinary catheters may prevent urinary tract infections (UTI) better than uncoated catheters. In addition, although they are more expensive, their use is likely to mean lower costs overall, according to a new study.

The use of silver-coated catheters resulted in a 47% decrease in the incidence of UTI.

Use of silver alloy catheters resulted in estimated cost savings of over $4 per patient compared with standard catheter use.

"The potential cost savings from this sort of research are tremendous because an episode of UTI increases length of stay so much," says David Nash, MD, MBA, to WebMD. "What's particularly good in this paper is the way they selected patients at highest risk as candidates for silver alloy catheters." Dr. Nash is associate dean of Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia and director of its office of health policy.

Archives of Internal Medicine Sept. 25, 2000

[visionary]

Here is a little "silver" history.....

Past Medicinal Uses of Silver
During the past 2000 years, many civilizations have recognized the properties of silver in preventing diseases. For instance, the Romans used silver nitrate therapeutically, and the hermetic and alchemical writings of Paracelsus speak of the virtues of silver as a healing substance.

In the 1800s, several physicians discovered the antibacterial (antigerm) qualities of silver and applied them to their practice of medicine. They used silver nitrate successfully in the treatment of skin ulcers, compound fractures and suppurating (draining puss) wounds. In 1881, Carl Crede pioneered the installation of dilute silver nitrate in the eye of neonates to prevent gonorrheal ophthalmia, a technique which has been in widespread use ever since. Von Naegeli and others in 1893 realized that the antibacterial effects of silver were primarily due to the silver ion. He coined the term oligodynamic to mean that a small amount of silver is released from the metallic surface when placed in contact with liquids.

At the turn of the century, Dr. William Halstead, one of the founding fathers of modern surgery, advocated the use of silver foil dressings for wounds. These dressings were used extensively until just after World War II, and were listed in the Physician’s Desk Reference until 1955, when the use of antibiotics became widespread.

In the early 1970’s, Drs. Becker, Marino and Spadaro of the Veterans Administration Hospital in Syracuse, New York pioneered the study of silver-coated fabrics for the treatment of complex bone infections. Having studied with Dr. Becker, Dr. A. B. Flick began developing broader clinical applications for silver nylon fabrics in partnership with Dr. Becker during his Orthopedic Surgery residency training at the University of Vermont. Dr. Flick subsequently entered private practice and continued his research independently.

During roughly the same time, three other university centered research teams also investigated the wound healing properties of silver plated fabrics with the application of an electrical potential. Dr. Alvarez, at the Department of Dermatology, University of Miami, in 1985, studied the effect of electrically activated silver-coated fabrics on an animal model of partial thickness skin wounds in pigs. Dr. Marino and Dr. Albright, at the Department of Orthopedic Surgery, Louisiana State University 1983 - 1986, studied the effect of electrically activated silver plated fabrics on chronic bone infections in humans. Dr. Chu and Dr. McManus, at the Army Surgical Research Center, Fort Sam Houston 1989 - 1996, studied the effect of electrically activated and non-electrically activated silver-coated fabrics on several animal burn wound models.

[Ahavah]

Silver is a powerful, natural prophylactic/antibiotic, used for

thousands of years. Ancient Greeks lined their eating and

drinking vessels with silver, as did many other cultures

throughout the world.



Pioneers of the American West would put a silver dollar in a

jug of milk to keep it fresh without refridgeration.



Did you ever wonder why silverware was made from silver?

One of the properties of silver is that it kills bacteria on

contact in six minutes or less.

It may be that gold and

silver were first used as valued currency because of their

medical properties.


It also causes major growth stimulation of injured tissues.

Burn patients and even elderly patients notice more rapid

healing. And he discovered that all cancer cells can change

back to normal cells. All strains of pathogens resistant

to other antibiotics are killed by silver.



What is Colloidal Silver?



Colloidal Silver is the result of an electro-magnetic process

that pulls microscopic particles from a larger piece of silver

into a liquid, such as water. These microscopic particles

can more easily penetrate and travel throughout the body.



Colloidal Silver works as a catalyst, disabling the enzyme

that all one celled bacteria, fungi and viruses use for their

oxygen metabolism. In short, the bad guys suffocate. Unlike

with antibiotics, resistant strains have never been known to

develop.



In fact, antibiotics are only effective against perhaps a

dozen forms of bacteria and fungi, but never viruses. Because

no known disease-causing organism can live in the presence of

even minute traces of the chemical element of metallic silver,

Colloidal Silver is effective against more than 650 different

disease-causing pathogens.



Since there is not enough room to list all the diseases against

which Colloidal Silver has been used successfully, here is a

tiny sample: acne, allergies, appendicitis, arthritis, blood

parasites, bubonic plague, burns (colloidal silver is one of

the few treatments that can keep severe burn patients alive),

cancer,(10) cholera, conjunctivitis, diabetes, gonorrhea, hay

fever, herpes, leprosy, leukemia, lupus, lymphangitis, Lyme

disease, malaria, meningitis, parasitic infections both viral

and fungal, pneumonia, rheumatism, ringworm, scarlet fever,

septic conditions of the eyes, ears, mouth and throat, shingles,

skin cancer, staph infections, strep infections, syphilis,

toxemia, trenchfoot, all forms of viruses, warts and stomach

ulcer.



In addition it also has veterinary uses, such as for canine

parvo virus. You'll also find Colloidal Silver very handy in

the garden since it can be used against bacterial, fungal and

viral attacks on plants.



Simply spray diluted Colloidal Silver on the leaves, and add

to soil water.



It would appear highly unlikely that even germ warfare agents

could survive an encounter with Colloidal Silver, since viruses

like E Bola and Hanta, or even the dreaded "flesh-eating

bacteria" are, in the end, merely hapless viruses and bacteria.



To top it off, Colloidal Silver is virtually non-toxic, making

it safe for both children and adults, as well as pets.



In short, anything bigger than a one-cell animal seems to like it.



Nor does one have to worry about that FDA (Food and Drug

Administration) fox being put in charge of this home remedy hen

house. Colloidal Silver is a pre-1938 healing modality, making

it exempt from FDA jurisdiction under the grandfather clause.



So why haven't you heard of it?



I suspect the user friendly economics of Colloidal Silver may

have something to do with its low profile in the media. Colloidal

Silver can't help but shine a spotlight on the expensive and

deadly nature of our pharmaceutical industries, who are bigger

than the Pentagon economically.



For example, the pharmaceutical cartel's relentless promotion

of dangerous vaccines for humans and animals through government

programs have now been linked to everything from increasing crib

deaths in infants (who in many documented cases scream for hours

before dying), to the increasingly common disease, feline

leukemia, in house cats. Colloidal Silver, on the other hand,

is a safe and reliable alternative to expensive pharmeceuticals.



It is true that consuming large amounts over long periods of

time may kill some friendly bacteria in your intestines. If

taking large amounts, you should supplement your diet with

yogurt or acidophilus, or compensate for possible bacteria loss

in some other way.



This is not, however, a serious problem, and unlike antibiotics,

Colloidal Silver does not weaken the body's immune system. In

fact, it is said to give the body a second immune system,

creating a shield against disease of all kinds.



A good quality Colloidal Silver can be diluted as much as 8

to 1 and still be highly effective. An average adult dose might

be one or two ounces of concentrate mixed in an eight-ounce

glass of water, not more than three times a day. However, there

would appear to be a great deal of leeway here, since no toxic

dose is known.



Sadly, some Colloidal Silvers currently on the market have as

little as 1 part per million (ppm) and sell for as much as

$60.00 for eight ounces. However, thanks to physicist Bob

Beck's brilliantly simple design outlined below, you can now

construct your own generator and produce unlimited amounts

of high-quality Colloidal Silver concentrate. And for only

1/10th of a cent per gallon, plus the price of water!


How to make it:


http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/silver.htm

[visionary]

Cool .... I will see if my love will build this for me.

[Sephania]

And what were their conclusions?

[visionary]

And what were their conclusions?I am assuming here... you are asking about FDA response??? We have searched the records from FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS) and have been unable to locate any cases that would be responsive to your request.

[Sephania]

Sorry, I thought my edit would answer that. I was referring to the doctors on these research teams:

During roughly the same time, three other university centered research teams also investigated the wound healing properties of silver plated fabrics with the application of an electrical potential. Dr. Alvarez, at the Department of Dermatology, University of Miami, in 1985, studied the effect of electrically activated silver-coated fabrics on an animal model of partial thickness skin wounds in pigs. Dr. Marino and Dr. Albright, at the Department of Orthopedic Surgery, Louisiana State University 1983 - 1986, studied the effect of electrically activated silver plated fabrics on chronic bone infections in humans. Dr. Chu and Dr. McManus, at the Army Surgical Research Center, Fort Sam Houston 1989 - 1996, studied the effect of electrically activated and non-electrically activated silver-coated fabrics on several animal burn wound models.

Where can you get this silver plated fabric?

[visionary]

not available for the general public... doctor issue only.

[Sephania]

And if this goes through, what vitamins do you recomend most to stockpile?

[Ahavah]

And if this goes through, what vitamins do you recomend most to stockpile?Hmmm...Wondering..do you really need to stock pile?
Alot of Herbs you can grow your self.
I guess to get alot of Vit. C however..you'd have to eat ALOT of oranges. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_4_44.gif

[Sephania]

Tomatoes have high C,;) but the point is, not everyone is blessed with land. Some live in apartments or small houses that have little or no land.

I was shopping yesterday at a bargin store that sells closeouts and they had a bunch of merchandise from the local drug store at 90% off. I got over $200 worth of vitamins and suppliments for $21.75. :)

[Shimshon]

Yisrael had NO land at all, but El Shaddai provided food from heaven and water from a rock. Their clothes never wore out.........yada yada yada............................:P

Repeat after me. Adonai is my shepherd I shall not want................Yhvh Yireh!!!!

YIREH!!!!

yah see it now?:)

[visionary]

Maybe grazing like wild animals will teach us the value of true nutrition like God intended. We do not explore our surroundings like we should.

[Sephania]

:scratch: I was hoping for useful answers, I mean what is the whole point of this thread then? :scratch:

[Ahavah]

:scratch: I was hoping for useful answers, I mean what is the whole point of this thread then? :scratch:http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_4.gifUseful answers? Just wondering...a reminder about...Trusting in G-d isn't useful?
That He WILL provide for you and take care of you.

Also... the fact that we already have all the "NATURAL" resorces to be healthy.
Learning HOW to make collidal Silver isn't useful?

I'm just wondering "what" you are really looking for?
I think this thread was very informative.
Maybe you wanted a list of vitamins that you should stockpile?

Come on Zayit...Don't let fear control you. In these last days..things are only going to get Worse before they get better.
Yeshua is OUR provider though..and there is nothing to worry about.

If you are afraid of getting sick..learn about collidal silver...I'm tellin'ya..it really works..and the Government knows it too..that's why they are making it illegal.:thumbsup: Blessings Zayit.

[yod]

Maybe grazing like wild animals will teach us the value of true nutrition like God intended. We do not explore our surroundings like we should.

yeah...but have ever tried to use ketchup when grazing in a field? It's TOUGH man!!!!

[Sephania]

How to make it


http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/silver.htm

I am no scientist but is that truely Colloidial silver, or is it making Ionic Silver?

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

True colloidal silver products are the least prevalent type of colloidal silver on the market due to high degree of manufacturing complexity and the resulting high cost of production.

[Sephania]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_4.gifUseful answers? Just wondering...a reminder about...Trusting in G-d isn't useful?
That He WILL provide for you and take care of you.

Also... the fact that we already have all the "NATURAL" resorces to be healthy.
Learning HOW to make collidal Silver isn't useful?

I'm just wondering "what" you are really looking for?
I think this thread was very informative.
Maybe you wanted a list of vitamins that you should stockpile?

Come on Zayit...Don't let fear control you. In these last days..things are only going to get Worse before they get better.
Yeshua is OUR provider though..and there is nothing to worry about.

If you are afraid of getting sick..learn about collidal silver...I'm tellin'ya..it really works..and the Government knows it too..that's why they are making it illegal.:thumbsup: Blessings Zayit.

thank you , I DO trust in HaShem, and he is the only one I do. I am truly sorry you got that idea. I was asking for others who DO NOT have that trust and will be in need of this info, we aren't the only ones reading this site, and I also bought some for those I know may need them because their trust isn't as great, I look for ways to help others, very rarely myself. When this kind of "scary news" is reported on a forum where many come to seek advise and trust us for presenting the truth, I think it only fair that what can be done is also included. I know I didn't state so but I was actually asking the Doctor to reccomend what she thougt would be a good store. Your advise was very appreciated Aha vah. :)

[Ahavah]

thank you , I DO trust in HaShem, and he is the only one I do. I am truly sorry you got that idea. I was asking for others who DO NOT have that trust and will be in need of this info, we aren't the only ones reading this site, and I also bought some for those I know may need them because their trust isn't as great, I look for ways to help others, very rarely myself. When this kind of "scary news" is reported on a forum where many come to seek advise and trust us for presenting the truth, I think it only fair that what can be done is also included. I know I didn't state so but I was actually asking the Doctor to reccomend what she thougt would be a good store. Your advise was very appreciated Aha vah. :)http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_3.gifGosh Zayit..you were starting to worry me for a second...I didn't think you were really worried about not having enough vitamins..but ya never know. And yes..you are right...other people DO read these posts..I forget sometimes. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_13.gifDUH...for me. LOL...

[Sephania]

Sorry for the worry :sorry: and BTW, I love your smilies, especially that double take one! :D

[Ahavah]

Sorry for the worry :sorry: and BTW, I love your smilies, especially that double take one! :DWhat...ME WORRY?http://images.marketworks.com/hi/15/15253/mad1.jpg (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6533804993&category=3969#ebayphotohosting)

[Sephania]

:scratch: Is Ahavah really Yod?

[Ahavah]

:scratch: Is Ahavah really Yod?Nawwww.....It's really me Zayit..Ahavah:cool: :P

[Sephania]

I dont' know, that picture you posted looks an awful lot like the picture in yods profile. Hmmm :scratch: :idea: twins? Nah, there CAN'T be TWO of them! :eek:











:D