Unity?

[Yehuda]

Do you think there is unity between Christianity and Messianic Judaism?

If you think there isn't unity between Christianity and Messianic Judaism.

Why do you think there isn't?

And what could bring unity between the two?

[plum]

Good curiosities, Yehuda.

In my personal perspective, I desperately want there to be unity. But I feel like with all the weight that those two labels carry and how they don't share many of the same goals, burdens, or priorities, that may not be possible on a major scale. but on a personal scale, perhaps there can be a unified idea.

For instance, I see myself as a Messianic Gentile who (at the moment) blooms in the Christian environment I am in, but whose heart is with the earliest Believers; I desire understanding, change, and wisdom for the Christian believers who have lost the connection to the olive tree, thinking they support IT, when truly, the root supports us gentiles, the grafted in. I feel unity with the entire body of believers, but I feel like I have discovered the glue that joins all the fragmented pieces (Torah, Yeshua, faith, the NT, community, Hebraic thought, discipleship, etc...) and makes them whole again. I feel like most Christians lack this glue, but once they find it, they can have unity with the Messianics and all of Israel.

wordy and unclear, sorry.

[mjterry87]

Personally, I don't feel unity with the Christian people. The reason why is because I see my faith, Messianic Judaism as a denomation of Judaism, the religion of Yeshua given to mankind by the one Eternal G-D. Where as Christanity is a man made religion, from Rome. Christians don't accept Torah, the holy book and way that we are supposed to live. To tell you the truth the only real thing that us messianics, or at least I, have in common with Christians is that they accept my Messiah, a Hellenistic version who destroyed torah, but they do accept my (our) Messiah. I am Jewish, and will remain Jewish, I will, and cannot go to a church and drink grape juice, and eat a cracker, sing songs English, and say how bad the Jewish people are because they don't accept Jesus. The reason why Jewish poeple don't accept Yeshua is because of the Christians, and how they made the JEWISH Messiah a Hellenistic god. To tell you the truth, the Jews act more like believers of Yeshua than the Christians, the Jews follow torah, where as the Christians don't. Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate Christians, they are good people, and G-D has not shown them the truth of Torah, so they are worshiping as best they know how. I don't have unity with them though, because I really don't agree with them. Get it? Shalom :wave:

[mjterry87]

What happened to your Messianic symbol Yehuda?

[Sephania]

You are thinking of Yhudah, Michael, it seems we have many Juda's with us here, but none are MJ? :scratch:

Yhudah has been posting in the MJ forum for awhile http://www.christianforums.com/u89144 but also carries a cross icon.
Looks like this Yehuda joined CF the same day the other Yhudah last posted.

[Yehuda]

What happened to your Messianic symbol Yehuda?


Of course, to me the terms Christian and Messianic are synonymous.
However, in being the forum has their own definitions for those terms. I believed that based on the forums definitions of what is Christian and what is Messianic, that it would be better if I changed my religious label for this forum.

[Wags]

Of course, to me the terms Christian and Messianic are synonymous.
However, in being the forum has their own definitions for those terms. I believed that based on the forums definitions of what is Christian and what is Messianic, that it would be better if I changed my religious label for this forum.

I, for one, applaud your decision to follow the forum guidelines. :thumbsup:

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Personally, I don't feel unity with the Christian people. The reason why is because I see my faith, Messianic Judaism as a denomation of Judaism, the religion of Yeshua given to mankind by the one Eternal G-D. Where as Christanity is a man made religion, from Rome. Christians don't accept Torah, the holy book and way that we are supposed to live. To tell you the truth the only real thing that us messianics, or at least I, have in common with Christians is that they accept my Messiah, a Hellenistic version who destroyed torah, but they do accept my (our) Messiah. I am Jewish, and will remain Jewish, I will, and cannot go to a church and drink grape juice, and eat a cracker, sing songs English, and say how bad the Jewish people are because they don't accept Jesus. The reason why Jewish poeple don't accept Yeshua is because of the Christians, and how they made the JEWISH Messiah a Hellenistic god. To tell you the truth, the Jews act more like believers of Yeshua than the Christians, the Jews follow torah, where as the Christians don't. Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate Christians, they are good people, and G-D has not shown them the truth of Torah, so they are worshiping as best they know how.

Shalom My Brother In Arms with Yeshua HaMashiach,

We all, even the Catholics, Protestants, Chrismatic, Eastern Orthodox, Orthodox Jew, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, etc, We all are ON FIRE to Fight for the CAUSE; no matter what cause people will fight for it. Peter was READY and willing to defend the cause when he chopped that guys ear off. King David was Ready to Count the People when HaShem didn't want him to, and He did count the people and 70,000 died because David didn't listen. He might have heard but didnt' listen. That is the same with much of the world. They all hear the Truth, but many just don't Hear the Truth because they are blind to it. Yes, we have blind spots too. Where? Only HaShem knows and the Spirits HE has sent into the world for each of their purposes.

About Christians not obeying Torah. I can say they obey quite a bit of Torah without Realizing it. They dont' Kill(some say Murder instead of), Steal, Lie(knowingly, for you can only tell the truth that has been told to you to begin with), etc.
So if one is going to obey some of the Torah then they should obey All of the Torah :|
To tell you the truth, the Jews act more like believers of Yeshua than the Christians, the Jews follow torah, where as the Christians don't.
The Jews understand elements of Torah in the Letter of Torah. Where as the Christian side comes with Trust without actually knowing the whole Truth. The Jew is blind to the fact that Yeshua is HaMashiach. Yet I feel many are going to be coming to the knowledge of that FACT before long. Same with the Christian, they will see the whole Truth as well as everyone else and will be very surprised on the outcome. And I dont' need to mention about all the others in the world who dont' even acknowledge our Father in Heaven at even the Least, let alone Our King of Kings, Yeshua HaMashiach. So will it be TOO late for everyone that doesn't know the Truth as it should have been told since Yeshua and even since the Beginning. I can only say HaShem knows. HaShem Knows when Yeshua is Coming back, Yeshua Doesn't know when that is. Put the puzzle together folks, that includes everyone, ME INCLUDED. I am probably as confused about many areas of the Bible as most are in many areas. I do how ever think no matter where you are right now, it is in HaShem's PLAN. HE is our Travel Agent. The only thing we have to do is know how to get a hold of HIM. Christians rely on Yeshua, yet they don't know the place of Yeshua because they have been told for 1700+ years that He is Elohim(G_D). He is Elohim. Jews on the other hand don't believe that Yeshua is HaShem. And rightly so. They were brought up with that notion from birth being taught The Scriptures(Torah and Prophets + Talmud, etc.). Where as Christianity grew in population consisting majority of Gentiles who came out of a Greek Society. Think about Israel when they came out of Egypt, all they knew of was what they learned from their fathers and mothers surrounded by Egyptians who worshiped other gods. How long were they in captivity? A very long time, through generations. So when Moshe was up in the Mountian for 40 days(it was probably before hand, takes a while to form a Calf from gold) they, the Israelites had Aaron make a god for them to worship, just like what they probably saw in Egypt. And you know the rest of the story. The point being. Make sure your Doing everything HIS, HaShems Way, Which is the Way Yeshua Lived it while here WITH US.

The Jews eyes will be opened as it says in the Bible. And I think also all Mankind will see the WHOLE TRUTH happen before them. Remember, Israel is a picture of what is to come in these past few ages. We see how MAN is when attempting to Please HaShem without having Ruach HaKodesh throughout the people(Israel), but only a select few, The High Priest which is of the Levites would be with Ruach HaKodesh. For if this wasn't so then the whole thing is just nothing: Christianity and Judaism. So since they had the Ruach HaKodesh to help them out in their service. Keeping Torah to many is thought of as being Legalistic. Yet is it really? We obey laws of our countries and cities and counties don't we? Yes we do, because according to the Bible we would then be called Lawless wouldn't we if we didn't obey. When a law is abolished it isn't in effect any more is it.
Mat 5:17-19 HNV "Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. (18) For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished. (19) Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least mitzvot, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

When will all be accomplished you say.

1Co 15:22-28 HNV For as in Adam all die, so also in Messiah all will be made alive. (23) But each in his own order: Messiah the first fruits, then those who are Messiah's, at his coming. (24) Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. (25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (27) For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. (28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Baruch Haba,

Shalom,

Tag

[Sephania]

Shalom there Yehuda, why don't you introduce yourself in our Mini introduction thread. You can find it here. http://www.christianforums.com/t105992-mini-introductions-please-.html

That way there won't be any more confusion, ( hopefully) because , you see, we have another member by the very same name, just spelled slightly different.
:)

[Yehuda]

Shalom there Yehuda, why don't you introduce yourself in our Mini introduction thread. You can find it here. http://www.christianforums.com/t105992-mini-introductions-please-.html

That way there won't be any more confusion, ( hopefully) because , you see, we have another member by the very same name, just spelled slightly different.
:)

Yhudah and Yehuda, are both one and the same person, in which you all so love to hate here. I had so much technical difficulty accessing the forum after changing my e-mail address that I registered, under the same name only a different spelling.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Yhudah and Yehuda, are both one and the same person, in which you all so love to hate here. I had so much technical difficulty accessing the forum after changing my e-mail address that I registered, under the same name only a different spelling.

Well Yhudah, now called Yehuda,

Welcome back.

Shalom and Shalom,

Tag

[Bon]

Shalom My Brother In Arms with Yeshua HaMashiach,

We all, even the Catholics, Protestants, Chrismatic, Eastern Orthodox, Orthodox Jew, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, etc, We all are ON FIRE to Fight for the CAUSE; no matter what cause people will fight for it. Peter was READY and willing to defend the cause when he chopped that guys ear off. King David was Ready to Count the People when HaShem didn't want him to, and He did count the people and 70,000 died because David didn't listen. He might have heard but didnt' listen. That is the same with much of the world. They all hear the Truth, but many just don't Hear the Truth because they are blind to it. Yes, we have blind spots too. Where? Only HaShem knows and the Spirits HE has sent into the world for each of their purposes.

About Christians not obeying Torah. I can say they obey quite a bit of Torah without Realizing it. They dont' Kill(some say Murder instead of), Steal, Lie(knowingly, for you can only tell the truth that has been told to you to begin with), etc.
So if one is going to obey some of the Torah then they should obey All of the Torah


The Jews understand elements of Torah in the Letter of Torah. Where as the Christian side comes with Trust without actually knowing the whole Truth. The Jew is blind to the fact that Yeshua is HaMashiach. Yet I feel many are going to be coming to the knowledge of that FACT before long. Same with the Christian, they will see the whole Truth as well as everyone else and will be very surprised on the outcome. And I dont' need to mention about all the others in the world who dont' even acknowledge our Father in Heaven at even the Least, let alone Our King of Kings, Yeshua HaMashiach. So will it be TOO late for everyone that doesn't know the Truth as it should have been told since Yeshua and even since the Beginning. I can only say HaShem knows. HaShem Knows when Yeshua is Coming back, Yeshua Doesn't know when that is. Put the puzzle together folks, that includes everyone, ME INCLUDED. I am probably as confused about many areas of the Bible as most are in many areas. I do how ever think no matter where you are right now, it is in HaShem's PLAN. HE is our Travel Agent. The only thing we have to do is know how to get a hold of HIM. Christians rely on Yeshua, yet they don't know the place of Yeshua because they have been told for 1700+ years that He is Elohim(G_D). He is Elohim. Jews on the other hand don't believe that Yeshua is HaShem. And rightly so. They were brought up with that notion from birth being taught The Scriptures(Torah and Prophets + Talmud, etc.). Where as Christianity grew in population consisting majority of Gentiles who came out of a Greek Society. Think about Israel when they came out of Egypt, all they knew of was what they learned from their fathers and mothers surrounded by Egyptians who worshiped other gods. How long were they in captivity? A very long time, through generations. So when Moshe was up in the Mountian for 40 days(it was probably before hand, takes a while to form a Calf from gold) they, the Israelites had Aaron make a god for them to worship, just like what they probably saw in Egypt. And you know the rest of the story. The point being. Make sure your Doing everything HIS, HaShems Way, Which is the Way Yeshua Lived it while here WITH US.

The Jews eyes will be opened as it says in the Bible. And I think also all Mankind will see the WHOLE TRUTH happen before them. Remember, Israel is a picture of what is to come in these past few ages. We see how MAN is when attempting to Please HaShem without having Ruach HaKodesh throughout the people(Israel), but only a select few, The High Priest which is of the Levites would be with Ruach HaKodesh. For if this wasn't so then the whole thing is just nothing: Christianity and Judaism. So since they had the Ruach HaKodesh to help them out in their service. Keeping Torah to many is thought of as being Legalistic. Yet is it really? We obey laws of our countries and cities and counties don't we? Yes we do, because according to the Bible we would then be called Lawless wouldn't we if we didn't obey. When a law is abolished it isn't in effect any more is it.
Mat 5:17-19 HNV "Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. (18) For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished. (19) Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least mitzvot, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

When will all be accomplished you say.

1Co 15:22-28 HNV For as in Adam all die, so also in Messiah all will be made alive. (23) But each in his own order: Messiah the first fruits, then those who are Messiah's, at his coming. (24) Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. (25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (27) For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. (28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Baruch Haba,

Shalom,

Tag



Well said Shamash of Yeshua.

A very inciteful post indeed. :)

Shalom from Bon

[Sephania]

Yhudah and Yehuda, are both one and the same person, in which you all so love to hate here. I had so much technical difficulty accessing the forum after changing my e-mail address that I registered, under the same name only a different spelling. You all?:scratch: I don't know what you are talking about, I can't speak for everyone but I have never seen any hatred of any kind in this forum and certainly don't bear any ill feelings toward you. Why would you say something like that? :(

As far as your passport you could have one of the mods check into that for you, they may be able to do something. I have never changed mine so not sure how the system works here.

[Mary_Magdalene]

Christians don't accept Torah, the holy book and way that we are supposed to live. To tell you the truth the only real thing that us messianics, or at least I, have in common with Christians is that they accept my Messiah, a Hellenistic version who destroyed torah, but they do accept my (our) Messiah.


One more thing you have in common with Christians, you both eat easter candy that is not Kosher. ;)

[Yehuda]

If any one should chose to roast a pig, if you invite me over, I will help you eat it despite the fact that I don't care all that much for pork, but I like free stuff. LOL.

Jesus fulfilled the law, all food is now kosher!

[Jasmine-FL]

You're absolutely right. All food is now kosher. Problem is that pork isn't really 'food' the way G-d defines 'food' to be, so since it's not 'food', it's not kosher. ;)

Jesus fulfilled the law, all food is now kosher!

[Jasmine-FL]

About the original topic: it depends on what unity means.

If unity means brotherly love then by all means we should have it!
However, if unity means ecumenism, then it's impossible. Unfortunately, my understanding of Messiah, of G-d's nature, and of what He expects from us cannot be reconciled with Christian theology. I don't mean that as an offense to Christians, I am simply stating a fact.

~J~

[insaneinthebrain]

closed for staff review