Just who was this character, Bar Abba(s)

[Sephania]

Who was Jesus Barabbas?

Bar Abba means, son of the father. So were there two people there, or one person with two "titles".

[yod]

As I was reading your question and thinking about his name, Yeshua BarAbbas (salvation son of the Fathers), just off the top of my balding head came a thought about relating this to the scapegoat of Yom Kippur. All the sins of the nation were transferred to a goat who was then let go into the wilderness while the "other" goat Yeshua ben Elohim (Salvation Son of G-d) was sacrificed.

Did I get that right? Ah nevermind....that was kind of stupid. Bar Abbas didn't take on anyone's sin. Not sure what brought to mind. Maybe pepperoni?

[visionary]

alas... you are not the first person to come up with BarAbbas as the scapegoat.

[MyZz]

that wasnt stupid Yod,the thought had crossed my mind too ..not sure how it relates exactly though

[talmidim]

Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Barabbas, "son of the fathers". This is what I think about when I read that name: "ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city"

[visionary]

talmidim...you must be feeling better

[Sephania]

As I was reading your question and thinking about his name, Yeshua BarAbbas (salvation son of the Fathers), just off the top of my balding head came a thought about relating this to the scapegoat of Yom Kippur. All the sins of the nation were transferred to a goat who was then let go into the wilderness while the "other" goat Yeshua ben Elohim (Salvation Son of G-d) was sacrificed.

Did I get that right? Ah nevermind....that was kind of stupid. Bar Abbas didn't take on anyone's sin. Not sure what brought to mind. Maybe pepperoni?

Good minds think alike? I also had this come to mind. The two goats had to be exactly alike didn't they? And one was chosen for azazel by lot and the other for HaShem, by Lot. Vayikra 16:5 Says:

He ( Aaron) is to take from the community of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering



Something else I have discovered, a friend of mine was here yesterday and we were celebrating firstfruits, he has developed a calendar based on one found in quamrum that had the courses of the priests laid out for six straight years. With this and other things I really don't understand totally without furthur examination, he has been able to figure out when the first week of creation is, and also when john was born , and Yeshua, and when he died and how all these relate to the courses of priests serving Adonai in the temple. He also had a paper on how the stars that Adonia set in the sky actually move and are not as those delving into astrology have been saying for so long. In other words, your "zodiac sign" is not what you think it is.

And on that vein when we had gone through the figuing to when Yeshua was born, and I took that date and compared it to the proper nightime sky when Yeshua was born, it seems his "sign" is Geminii, or the Twins. ;)

Now I certainly don't want anyone to accuse me of being LDS, but this may be the truth from wence they got their twisted understanding of things.

The blood of the goat sprinkled in the Holy of Holies was for the atonement of the people and also their uncleanness.

[Sephania]

Matthew's version:

27: 15 It was the governor's custom during a festival to set free one prisoner, whom ever the crowd asked for. 16 There was at that time a notorious prisoner being held, named Yeshua Bar-Abba.
17 So when a crowd had gathered, Pilate said to them,
"Whom do you want me to set free for you?
Yeshua Bar-Abba?
or Yeshua, called `the Messiah'?"
18 For he understood that it was out of jealousy that they had handed him over. 19 While he was sitting in court, his wife sent him a message, "Leave that innocent man alone. Today in a dream I suffered terribly because of him." 20 But the head cohanim persuaded the crowd to ask for Bar-Abba's release and to have Yeshua executed on the stake.
21 "Which of the two do you want me to set free for you?" asked the governor.

"Bar-Abba!" they answered.
22 Pilate said to them, "Then what should I do with Yeshua, called `the Messiah'?" They all said, "Put him to death on the stake! Put him to death on the stake!" 23 When he asked, "Why? What crime has he committed?" they shouted all the louder, "Put him to death on the stake!" 24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water, washed his hands in front of the crowd, and said, "My hands are clean of this man's blood; it's your responsibility." 25 All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!"
26 Then he released to them Bar-Abba; but Yeshua, after having him whipped, he handed over to be executed on a stake.

________________________________________________________

Mark 15


1 As soon as it was morning, the head cohanim held a council meeting with the elders, the Torah-teachers and the whole Sanhedrin. Then they put Yeshua in chains, led him away and handed him over to Pilate. 2 Pilate put this question to him: "Are you the King of the Jews?" He answered him, "The words are yours." 3 The head cohanim too made accusations against him, 4 and Pilate again inquired of him, "Aren't you going to answer? Look how many charges they are making against you!" 5 But Yeshua made no further response, to Pilate's amazement.



6 Now during a festival, Pilate used to set free one prisoner, whomever the crowd requested. 7 There was in prison among the rebels who had committed murder during the insurrection a man called Bar-Abba.

(notice he was amoung those who had commited murder, it does not say he was a murderer himself. )

When the crowd came up and began askng 8 Pilate to do for them what he usually did, 9 he asked them, "Do you want me to set free for you the `King of the Jews'?" 10 For it was evident to him that it was out of jealousy that the head cohanim had handed him over. 11 But the head cohanim stirred up the crowd to have him release Bar-Abba for them instead. 12 Pilate again said to them, "Then what should I do with the man you call the King of the Jews?" 13 They shouted back, "Put him to death on the stake!" 14 He asked, "Why? What crime has he committed?" But they only shouted louder, "Put him to death on the stake!"
15 So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the mob, set Bar-Abba free for them; but he had Yeshua whipped and then handed him over to be executed on the stake.

And John 18-19

28 They led Yeshua from Kayafa to the governor's headquarters. By now it was early morning. They did not enter the headquarters building because they didn't want to become ritually defiled and thus unable to eat the Pesach meal. 29 So Pilate went outside to them and said, "What charge are you bringing against this man?" 30 They answered, "If he hadn't done something wrong, we wouldn't have brought him to you." 31 Pilate said to them, "You take him and judge him according to your own law." The Judeans replied, "We don't have the legal power to put anyone to death." 32 This was so that what Yeshua had said, about how he was going to die, might be fulfilled. 33 So Pilate went back into the headquarters, called Yeshua and said to him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34 Yeshua answered, "Are you asking this on your own, or have other people told you about me?" 35 Pilate replied, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and head cohanim have handed you over to me; what have you done?" 36 Yeshua answered, "My kingship does not derive its authority from this world's order of things. If it did, my men would have fought to keep me from being arrested by the Judeans. But my kingship does not come from here." 37 "So then," Pilate said to him, "You are a king, after all." Yeshua answered, "You say I am a king. The reason I have been born, the reason I have come into the world, is to bear witness to the truth. Every one who belongs to the truth listens to me." 38 Pilate asked him, "What is truth?" Having said this, Pilate went outside again to the Judeans and told them, "I don't find any case against him. 39 However, you have a custom that at Passover I set one prisoner free. Do you want me to set free for you the `king of the Jews'?" But 40 they yelled back, "No, not this man but Bar-Abba!" (Bar-Abba was a revolutionary.)

7 The Judeans answered him, "We have a law; according to that law, he ought to be put to death, because he made himself out to be the Son of God." 8 On hearing this, Pilate became even more frightened. 9 He went back into the headquarters and asked Yeshua, "Where are you from?" But Yeshua didn't answer. 10 So Pilate said to him, "You refuse to speak to me? Don't you understand that it is in my power either to set you free or to have you executed on the stake?"

[visionary]

It is confusing prophectic fulfillment of the Passover at it appointed time, to tie the atonement to Yeshua's trial and events of that moment.

Yeshua didn't go to all that trouble on Mount Sinai, to then turn around and mix and natch His appointed feasts and their fulfillments. Leviticus 23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD , which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies. At Jesus’s Appointed Time, the feast of Passover was met with the fulfillment. It was not on any other time, date, month, year, just the appointed time found in the feast of the Passover.Lev 23:4,5 These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD's Passover. Moed is the Hebrew word for appointed time, often translated as festival, but actually means appointment. Passover and The Feast of Unleavened Bread are moedim or appointed times. They are the LORD's appointed times for doing business with man. The idea of Passover as an appointed time is expressed by the words of Jesus as he prepares to meet his own appointed time in Jerusalem. In Mathew 26:17,18, Yeshua calls this particular Passover my appointed time. Yeshua has identified the appointed time of the not only the Passover but also the Festival of Unleavened Bread as his appointed time for fulfillment. Thirty three years Yeshua lived and walked on the earth. But that year, he says that the Passover is His appointed time. Yeshua had been keeping all the feasts through out His entire life, studying it since He was old enough to understand and yet this particular year, this particular Passover, Feast of Unleaven Bread, First Fruit or Feast of Weeks and Penecost were in His mind as the appointed time. What was it about this particular spring time feasts that Yeshua knew were going to be prophetic reality? What did Yeshua know about these feasts and their timing, that He knew it was His appointed time? What did Yeshua see in the Spring Feasts that lead Him to fulfill them the way that He did and not the way that the people of that time had hoped? I believe that it was Yeshua's determination to do all things according to the prophectic meaning found in the feasts, that cause Him to not go and make Himself available to be sacrificed before the Passover. By this same token, we are not to mix the prophectic meanings of one feast with another's fulfillment at the appointed time.
John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. 2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand. 3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest. 4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. 5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. 6Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. .... 8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. 9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. 10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. ..... 14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

[Sephania]

I think I shall take a "break" from the forums before anyone else misunderstands what I am trying to say today. Too much 'static in the air here, apparently.

Shalom :wave:

[MyZz]

That calendar sounds so interesting Zayit...if he puts it up online or something can u let us know?

[Shimshon]

well, to add my 2 sheckles. It could also be prophetic in that they chose Yeshua "barabbas" over HaMoshiach. The savior of their 'fathers' over the 'anointed' savior. Choosing the Torah over the Spirit? The way of their fathers over the way of the Anointed One. Choosing to follow Torah as their fathers did over the way Yeshua defined?

They chose Yeshua, son of the fathers. Not Yeshua Son of YHVH. They chose to remain following in the ways of their fathers over Abba.

[queenm04]

alas... you are not the first person to come up with BarAbbas as the scapegoat.


Yeah...OP sounds lyk som input in this thread,
http://www.christianforums.com/t754228-what-or-who-is-represented-by-azazel.html

[queenm04]

well, to add my 2 sheckles. It could also be prophetic in that they chose Yeshua "barabbas" over HaMoshiach. The savior of their 'fathers' over the 'anointed' savior. Choosing the Torah over the Spirit? The way of their fathers over the way of the Anointed One. Choosing to follow Torah as their fathers did over the way Yeshua defined?

They chose Yeshua, son of the fathers. Not Yeshua Son of YHVH. They chose to remain following in the ways of their fathers over Abba.

interesting insight!!!