2nd Corinthians 6:14

[Nossa-the-Lame]

6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


I am just curious as to everyones opinion on these verses. What do you consider an unbeliever? When should you start to seperate yourself from an "unbeliever"? PLease I would liketo hear your full opinion on it all, these verses are bothering me and I will explain later once I get some explainations.

[visionary]

I have found that there is an inexplainable knowing those who have experienced the God you know and love. They maybe way ahead in understanding or way behind, but we can share those things in common. Unbelievers can be those who are of the theological knowledge only, the "whatever my pastor, church, ____[fill in the blank] says" people who have never gone farther than they have been led, and of course, then there is the obvious, from I worship another god, to "there is no god" type people.

To me, if they do not "know" God. They can not be anything but unbelievers. If they do not consider God their personal friend then I would say that they may not be unbelievers but they will be cast into the same catagory as if they were. God has to be someone they trust, they are willing to follow to the ends of the earth if necessary. God is to them the only thing that really matters.

[Sephania]

Let me see if I can help you J.

[Sephania]

6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


You know elsewhere Sh'aul speaks of being unequally yoked as far as marriage but has stipulations on that as far as separating, but here it speaks of fellowship and that to me means friends as well as family, or anyone you are not married to. I look at this as, you may have friends that are unbelievers and they ask you to go to a bar with them, do you go? No. But you could invite them to your home and share Yeshua with them, but for other activities, there would be a spiritual conflict and unbeknownst to you, you would be the one suffering, not your friend being "saved". Now if it is a work situation, that is different, you can talk to them, even sit at lunch with them, but know where to draw the line and they will respect you for it, and see you have convictions, and that will speak to them greater than any "purposed" witnessing.

If the L-RD is not living in them, someone else is, there is no neutrallity here,so you can't communicate without the wrong influence happening here. A good example to study is Yeshua's time in the wilderness.

6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? Concord, means harmony, of ideas, feelings, and beliefs, and you know that there is none, they are opposite as dark is from light. In Yeshua is no lie, in HaSatan is no truth found, they can never be in harmony on anything. Now that doesn't mean you couldn't agree with an unbeliever on somethings but I guarantee they will be for different reasons, or something ain't Kosher. ;)

6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. There is only room for the throne of G-d in your temple, if other things are brought in, he has to move out. Nothing should be above him.

6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, The Torah deals repeatedly with separation, It is for our own good, but it is also to show the heathen ( those who don't know G-d) who he is and magnify his name here on earth. There are many unclean things, including those who don't know him nor follow his commandments. Remember when Peter thought that Cornelius was unclean? But the L-RD had accepted him, remember he was a G-d fearer, so he already believed, Peter was sent to bring the good news and this brought about baptism, of water and the spirit, thus making Cornelius and his whole family, clean. But only those gentiles who believed are clean. If you want to be recieved by the L-RD you must separate yourself unto him, which means you can't have a foot in both places.

6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. He can't be a father to a part time son. He wants his complete devotion, he wants to be his only Father, and G-d. He is a jealous G-d, and bridegroom and he wants a pure spotless bride.

[Shimshon]

I think these verses align with the rest of the message by the other talmidim, and Yeshua who gave it to them.

1 John
5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him - none! 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him while we are walking in the darkness, we are lying and not living out the truth. 7 But if we are walking in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of his Son Yeshua purifies us from all sin.


1 My children, I am writing you these things so that you won't sin.

3 The way we can be sure we know him is if we are obeying his commands. 4 Anyone who says, "I know him," but isn't obeying his commands is a liar - the truth is not in him. 5 But if someone keeps doing what he says, then truly love for God has been brought to its goal in him. This is how we are sure that we are united with him. 6 A person who claims to be continuing in union with him ought to conduct his life the way he did.

20 But you have received the Messiah's anointing from HaKadosh, and you know all this. 21 It is not because you don't know the truth that I have written to you, but because you do know it, and because no lie has its origin in the truth. 22 Who is a liar at all, if not the person who denies that Yeshua is the Messiah? Such a person is an anti-Messiah - he is denying the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son is also without the Father, but the person who acknowledges the Son has the Father as well. 24 Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with both the Son and the Father. 25 And this is what he has promised us: eternal life. 26 I have written you these things about the people who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the Messianic anointing you received from the Father remains in you, so that you have no need for anyone to teach you. On the contrary, as his Messianic anointing continues to teach you about all things, and is true, not a counterfeit, so, just as he taught you, remain united with him.



2 John
9 Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain true to what the Messiah has taught does not have God. Those who remain true to his teaching have both the Father and the Son.
10 If someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, don't welcome him into your home. Don't even say, "Shalom!" to him; 11 for the person who says, "Shalom!" to him shares in his evil deeds.

3 John
9 I wrote something to the congregation; but Diotrephes, who likes to be the macher among them, doesn't recognize our authority. 10 So if I come, I will bring up everything he is doing, including his spiteful and groundless gossip about us. And as if that weren't enough for him, he refuses to recognize the brothers' authority either; moreover, he stops those who want to do so and tries to drive them out of the congregation! 11 Dear friend, don't imitate the bad, but the good. Those who do what is good are from God; those who do what is bad are not from God.

Not to mention Shaul's prior letter to those in Corith.

1 It is actually being reported that there is sexual sin among you, and it is sexual sin of a kind that is condemned even by pagans-a man is living with his stepmother! 2 And you stay proud? Shouldn't you rather have felt some sadness that would have led you to remove from your company the man who has done this thing?

7 Get rid of the old hametz, so that you can be a new batch of dough, because in reality you are unleavened. For our Pesach lamb, the Messiah, has been sacrificed. 8 So let us celebrate the Seder not with leftover hametz, the hametz of wickedness and evil, but with the matzah of purity and truth.

9 In my earlier letter I wrote you not to associate with people who engage in sexual immorality. 10 I didn't mean the sexually immoral people outside your community, or the greedy, or the thieves or the idol-worshippers - for then you would have to leave the world altogether! 11 No, what I wrote you was not to associate with anyone who is supposedly a brother but who also engages in sexual immorality, is greedy, worships idols, is abusive, gets drunk or steals. With such a person you shouldn't even eat! 12 For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Isn't it those who are part of the community that you should be judging? 13 God will judge those who are outside. Just expel the evildoer from among yourselves.

Now don't go jaw dropped that I put forth what Shaul and Yochanan have said repleatedly, please. NOT MY WORDS!!! And YES they are VERY alarming. Especially in this 'ecumenical' scholarly world we live in today.

LOVE the sinner, HATE the sin. YHVH loved us while we were yet sinners because he hated the fact we would perish without him. Because he loved us He caused us to be righteous, in union with Yeshua HaMoshiach.

p.s. Probably just the response you thought you'd get from me huh? :) ;)

[Nossa-the-Lame]

I have found that there is an inexplainable knowing those who have experienced the God you know and love. They maybe way ahead in understanding or way behind, but we can share those things in common. Unbelievers can be those who are of the theological knowledge only, the "whatever my pastor, church, ____[fill in the blank] says" people who have never gone farther than they have been led, and of course, then there is the obvious, from I worship another god, to "there is no god" type people.

To me, if they do not "know" God. They can not be anything but unbelievers. If they do not consider God their personal friend then I would say that they may not be unbelievers but they will be cast into the same catagory as if they were. God has to be someone they trust, they are willing to follow to the ends of the earth if necessary. God is to them the only thing that really matters.

I agree with much of what you said Visionary, in a few posts I will explain my take and my story behind this.

[Nossa-the-Lame]

You know elsewhere Sh'aul speaks of being unequally yoked as far as marriage but has stipulations on that as far as separating, but here it speaks of fellowship and that to me means friends as well as family, or anyone you are not married to. I look at this as, you may have friends that are unbelievers and they ask you to go to a bar with them, do you go? No. But you could invite them to your home and share Yeshua with them, but for other activities, there would be a spiritual conflict and unbeknownst to you, you would be the one suffering, not your friend being "saved". Now if it is a work situation, that is different, you can talk to them, even sit at lunch with them, but know where to draw the line and they will respect you for it, and see you have convictions, and that will speak to them greater than any "purposed" witnessing.

If the L-RD is not living in them, someone else is, there is no neutrallity here,so you can't communicate without the wrong influence happening here. A good example to study is Yeshua's time in the wilderness.

Concord, means harmony, of ideas, feelings, and beliefs, and you know that there is none, they are opposite as dark is from light. In Yeshua is no lie, in HaSatan is no truth found, they can never be in harmony on anything. Now that doesn't mean you couldn't agree with an unbeliever on somethings but I guarantee they will be for different reasons, or something ain't Kosher. ;)

There is only room for the throne of G-d in your temple, if other things are brought in, he has to move out. Nothing should be above him.

The Torah deals repeatedly with separation, It is for our own good, but it is also to show the heathen ( those who don't know G-d) who he is and magnify his name here on earth. There are many unclean things, including those who don't know him nor follow his commandments. Remember when Peter thought that Cornelius was unclean? But the L-RD had accepted him, remember he was a G-d fearer, so he already believed, Peter was sent to bring the good news and this brought about baptism, of water and the spirit, thus making Cornelius and his whole family, clean. But only those gentiles who believed are clean. If you want to be recieved by the L-RD you must separate yourself unto him, which means you can't have a foot in both places.

He can't be a father to a part time son. He wants his complete devotion, he wants to be his only Father, and G-d. He is a jealous G-d, and bridegroom and he wants a pure spotless bride.


Wow, thanks Zayit :) some of this I agree with, I will explain momentarily.

[Nossa-the-Lame]

I think these verses align with the rest of the message by the other talmidim, and Yeshua who gave it to them.


Not to mention Shaul's prior letter to those in Corith.

Now don't go jaw dropped that I put forth what Shaul and Yochanan have said repleatedly, please. NOT MY WORDS!!! And YES they are VERY alarming. Especially in this 'ecumenical' scholarly world we live in today.

LOVE the sinner, HATE the sin. YHVH loved us while we were yet sinners because he hated the fact we would perish without him. Because he loved us He caused us to be righteous, in union with Yeshua HaMoshiach.

p.s. Probably just the response you thought you'd get from me huh? :) ;)


Heh, thanks for bringing me the words of Shaul and Yochanan, its a bit much...but none-the-less important on the subject. And no I didn't think it was the responce I would get from you ;)

[Nossa-the-Lame]

Ok, now my take on these verses:

For one thing, I feel that what was said was a re-iteration of the Dueteronomy verses about how Jews are to NOT marry goyim, since Jews walk with the L-rd and goyim do not. Other than that I feel it is advice, since what was said was not a direct commandment from G-d. If you want to walk in the light, don't you want to surround yourself with like people who want the same as you? This has been around for so long, and we use i for everything, if you want to get an A in your algebra class don't you want to study and work with those who get/want an A in the same class? As for an unbeliever, I consider an unbeliever a person who rejects G-d, the bible, and/or Y'shua entirely(well, I asume if you reject one you reject them all ;) ).

The reason why I ask this is because someone has brought this verse up to me twice, and this last time they deeply hurt my feelings, and I have lost respect for that person too.

You see, this person I know, I am going to call her "Faith" for now. Now, a couple of months ago I was talking with "Faith" about this girl I was interested in, she asked me if this girl was christian. I said no, then she showd me these verses. She also said my soul was in jepordey, which I took as I would be "going to hell," considering that is the only outcome for a jepordized soul. I ignored them and moved on. Now I am dating this girl, her name is Kristen. The other night, I was chatting with "Faith" again, and she asked me if Kristen was a christian. I told her Kristen said she was christian. "Faith" then asked me what my definition of Christian was, and I gave her a half-fast answer, I did not really want to discuss this topic with her, considering when I told her I was a Messianic Christian for the next several weeks I was flooded qith verses on why its "bad" to follow the law, and pretty much talked down to about doing such. Then, rather than letting the subject drop, she said to me that if I couldn't answer her question, how could I know if I was truely a christian. She, in simple terms, questioned my faith and was saying I might not be a Christian(note that I call myself Christian in the sense that I am a follower of Christ Y'shua, not Christ Jesus ;) ). This hurt me deeply, and I am somewhat at a loss for words.

Every time I discuss any biblical matter with "Faith," it is always turns into an uphill argument for myself. And right now, I just want to not discuss such matters with her anymore, considering I tried explaining that the Sabbath never changed from Saturday to Sunday, and then she agrees but then says that how we keep it "holy" is up to us...

[Shimshon]

For one thing, I feel that what was said was a re-iteration of the Dueteronomy verses about how Jews are to NOT marry goyim, since Jews walk with the L-rd and goyim do not. Other than that I feel it is advice, since what was said was not a direct commandment from G-d. Well that would work if there was still a difference between Jew and Goy. But now BOTH are called by the same Torah Yeshua gave. Both have to come to YHVH the same way, both are now held by the same standard. Union with Moshiach Yeshua. Not legalistic Torah observance.

Furthermore, was not Shaul exhorting that if someone comes with a different message or witness than that given by Yeshua to them, and them to us. That we should NOT believe it. In fact they would be cursed. The "Good News" was given them to give to the whole world. To me the Whole of the message is a command from Yeshua, YHVH in the flesh. This Whole message was given to Shaul among others. Why when he confesses the will and truth of YHVH is it only seen as 'advice'? Was it not the message given by YHVH to begin with?

Anyway, I'm sorry to see another person offended by the message given. But it's all a growing process. I would imagine that "faith" does not use much love in giving this message to you? That usually leads to the message appearing as 'condemnation' rather than Truth. I pray you two can work through this together.

b,shalom v,chesed
Shimshon

[visionary]

She is using the Words of God like a mighty sword and she will hurt herself if she keeps on misusing it.

[MyZz]

This Faith sounds very much like a girl I met a few months ago on the internet and If I had been a more immature believer she could have seriously done my faith a lot of damage.It started out innocently enough but she soon started picking my beliefs to bits and spouting all sorts of verses and accused me of not being a christian while I still considered myself catholic,eve though I had already left the church..i later found out she does that to a lot of people online and what is worse is that she gives messianic believers a bad name.Is she from singapore by any chance?

[Nossa-the-Lame]

This Faith sounds very much like a girl I met a few months ago on the internet and If I had been a more immature believer she could have seriously done my faith a lot of damage.It started out innocently enough but she soon started picking my beliefs to bits and spouting all sorts of verses and accused me of not being a christian while I still considered myself catholic,eve though I had already left the church..i later found out she does that to a lot of people online and what is worse is that she gives messianic believers a bad name.Is she from singapore by any chance?

Nope shes from my area. I met her of a profile website, well she actually met me. One of the first things she did was ask about my faith. The second I told her what a Messianic was, she then was "on a mission" to show me that following the torah is of no use. It was almost like no matter what I said, she pretty much said "Well that doesn't matter anymore." When I gave her the verse from Matthew when Y'shua said that the law is not done away with until the very end, she really didn't answer me but still continue saying that it was done away with, even when I said that "Since Y'shua is G-d in the flesh, and G-d HAS the FINAL word on EVERYTHING, wouldn't you think that we must stil follow the law considering he said it was still in effect?" Then she argued to me that my logic was flawed, and some other such, and that every time I quoted a man, she would say "Oh I thought you didn't listen to men."

Sheesh! Shes the type of Christian I can't stand too well. No offense to anyone, but shes the type that creeps me out.

[Nossa-the-Lame]

She is using the Words of God like a mighty sword and she will hurt herself if she keeps on misusing it.

Well, she hurt me, and because I met her on a profile site, where you can write blogs, I wrote a blog in responce to the other night, and it pretty much said how I felt and my thoughts on the whole matter, and I hope she reads it sometime soon because I am not going to talk to her until she has.