When did..........

[mjterry87]

..........Yeshua die and return? I know he celebrated Passover, and was then killed the next day. So do the Christians actually have it right that he returned around this time? Or do they have there times mixed up like they do on Christmas?

[Sephania]

Crucified on Passover - 3pm Nisan 14
Stayed in the earth - Unleavened bread Nisan 15
Arose at 3pm on the Feast of firstfruits - 3 pm nisan 16

PASSOVER that year was on a wednesday to thursday ( sundown)
Unleavened bread from thrusday to friday ( sundown)
Feast of first fruits Friday to saturday ( sundown) Saturday was also a Sabbath so they couldn't go until after sundown on Sat to the grave, but he had arisen before that at 3pm in the afternoon Sat, or Shabbat.

It was a full 72 hours, but their figuring is only about 34 hours I think , they figure on 3pm on friday to sunrise sunday ( 6am approx.) Doesn't compute, but they really don't care, because that is the only way they can have their "Good friday" and "Easter Sunday" each year, despite the fact the day changes from year to year.

[mjterry87]

Thanks :wave:

[Shimshon]

Feast of first fruits Friday to saturday ( sundown) Saturday was also a Sabbath so they couldn't go until after sundown on Sat to the grave, but he had arisen before that at 3pm in the afternoon Sat, or Shabbat.
I'm confused Zayit, are you stating this as fact or doctrinal error? Because it can not be correct as the firstfruit offering was AFTER the Shabbat. Not on the Shabbat.

you are to bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the cohen.11 He is to wave the sheaf before ADONAI, so that you will be accepted; the cohen is to wave it on the day after the Shabbat.

[MyZz]

Im confused too LOL wasnt First Fruits always after the Shabbat ie on a sunday?:scratch:

[Sephania]

Again we have the problem of weekly vs solomn assembly Shabbat.

[Shimshon]

4 "'These are the designated times of ADONAI, the holy convocations you are to proclaim at their designated times. 5 "'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for ADONAI. 6 On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah; for seven days you are to eat matzah. 7 On the first day you are to have a holy convocation; don't do any kind of ordinary work. 8 Bring an offering made by fire to ADONAI for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work.'" 9 ADONAI said to Moshe, 10 "Tell the people of Isra'el, 'After you enter the land I am giving you and harvest its ripe crops, you are to bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the cohen.11 He is to wave the sheaf before ADONAI, so that you will be accepted; the cohen is to wave it on the day after the Shabbat.
1st day of Matzah is defined as "a holy convocation" same as the 7th, but the sheaf is waved after the Shabbat, not 'a holy convocation. Now I know a holy convocation is defined as a Shabbat. But why the difference in word usage? Why not just say "the cohen is to wave it on the day after the "holy convocation". Why change the terms? Unless it actually means the "weekly" Shabbat and not the "holy convocation". ? Nu?


I've always seen the appearing of Yeshua to many after his reserection as the Sheaf wave. And with this section of scripture in mind

Sh'mot 23 14 "Three times a year, you are to observe a festival for me. 15 Keep the festival of matzah: for seven days, as I ordered you, you are to eat matzah at the time determined in the month of Aviv; for it was in that month that you left Egypt. No one is to appear before me empty-handed. 16 Next, the festival of harvest, the firstfruits of your efforts sowing in the field; and last, the festival of ingathering, at the end of the year, when you gather in from the fields the results of your efforts. 17 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Lord, ADONAI.

So, I know how many here claim we are to add Yeshua to the Torah of Moshe and create a new man out of it. But with this Mitzvah in mind. Explain how Shaul who was more of a zealot for the traditions handed down by my forefathers than most Jews my age, I advanced in [traditional] Judaism more rapidly than they did.

Now turns in the very same chapter/breath and states how when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by his grace, chose 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might announce him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone; 17 and I did not go up to Yerushalayim to see those who were emissaries before me. Instead, I immediately went off to Arabia and afterwards returned to Dammesek. 18 Not until three years later did I go up to Yerushalayim to make Kefa's acquaintance, and I stayed with him for two weeks, 19 but I did not see any of the other emissaries except Ya'akov the Lord's brother. and then states

1 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Yerushalayim, this time with Bar-Nabba; and I took with me Titus. 2 I went up in obedience to a revelation, and I explained to them the Good News as I proclaim it among the Gentiles - but privately, to the acknowledged leaders. I did this out of concern that my current or previous work might have been in vain. Tell me. Just how was Shaul "observing Torah Mitzvot"?

"Three times a year, you are to observe a festival for me.
Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Lord, ADONAI.
Legalisticly, or Spiritually?

Shaul quite clearly did NOT observe 'this' mitzvah. By his own accounting.

[shmuel]

3 pm Thursday (Nisan 14) to 3 pm Shabbat (Nisan 16) is only 48 hrs. 72 hrs have not elapsed from 3 pm Thursday until 3 pm Sunday.

Shavu`ot occurs on the morrow after Shabbat 7 weeks after first fruits. There is no other Shabbat possible at the time of Shavu`ot than the weekly Shabbat. Therefore, first fruits must also occur on the day after the weekly Shabbat, i.e. the first day of the week aka Sunday.

S

[DAlex]

Why couldn't it be Wed. at 3 p.m., that would be 3 days and He arose early Sun. morning? Good Friday never made sense since that wasn't 3 days either.

[Sephania]

Please disregard my post above, I was replying to too many on the same theme yesterday and now I think I have it worked out, but not enough to post and make a mess again. :sorry:

[Sephania]

Can anyone therefore lay out the 3 days and 3 nights Yeshua spoke of as a sign? Because from what I am figuring now, if he arose at 3pm Shabbat ( weekly) afternoon and told Miriam to not touch him for he had not risen to the Father ( I see this as presenting himself before the L-RD , the firstfruits) and she came after Shabbat ( but just after sundown) was over, he was just then ready to ascend on the first day of the week, which was the beginnig of first fruits, then how was he crucified on Pasache?

[shmuel]

Why couldn't it be Wed. at 3 p.m., that would be 3 days and He arose early Sun. morning? Good Friday never made sense since that wasn't 3 days either.

Acts 24:21 confirms that the first day of the week was "the third day". Even with exclusive counting you can't make a Wednesday crucifixion work out.

Wednesday - crucifixion
Thursday - 1st day
Friday - 2nd day
Saturday - 3rd day
Sunday - fourth day

On the other hand, with inclusive counting, a Friday crucifixion works out.

Friday - 1st day
Saturday - 2nd day
Sunday - 3rd day

It is mathematically impossible for Yeshua to have risen by/on Sunday morning and for Sunday to be the 3rd day as witnessed by the Emmaus road disciples and for Yeshua to have been dead for a full 72 hours.

S