Virginity, Ravagement, and Martyrdom

[Vasya Davidovich]

Here is another interesting question.

I know that there are martyrs in the Church who have died rather than give up their virginity. Yet we do not blame a woman for living through rape, nor do we say that it would have been better had she died.

So, for what exactly are we honouring these martyrs?

[Vasya Davidovich]

[I am asking the question because I was recently talking about (and therefore thinking about) a young Christian lady - a friend of a friend - who was murdered in my city. From all appearances, it seems that she died rather than yield up her virginity. I ultimately found myself asking the intriguing question: "Is she a martyr?" I don't know, and I would appreciate some feedback. And then there is the secondary question: "Was it better to die? Or should she rather have suffered the violence of rape and lived?"]

[InnerPhyre]

My ex girlfriend was raped. She didn't submit, but she couldn't fight the man off and he chose not to kill her. I'm glad she didn't die. I think that the situation you present is too black and white. Many times when women are raped they are too frightened or shocked to fight. They find themselves paralyzed. Is it virtuous for these martyrs to have fought unto death to preserve their virginity? Yes. I think we need to take care not to look down on rape survivors though.

[PaladinGirl]

My Mom was raped by a cop a few years ago. And no, I'm not kidding either. The cop ended up losing his license to practice law or whatever because of another sexual crime he committed. My Mom didn't turn him in. Someone else turned him in for something similar.

[Orthosdoxa]

Ick. This gives me the creeps.

I can't remember the name of the saint, but I remember someone who was tossed out of a window rather than give in to her attacker. I think many times there was something very specifically denoted of dying for Christ, too, though, that made them martyrs, not just that.

[Vasya Davidovich]

Sorry, InnerPhyre. Wasn't intending to make it black and white. Shall we leave off my last questions then? And stick to the first one:

For what exactly are we honouring these martyrs?

(I would never want to say, or seem to say, that a rape victim is less virtuous than a martyr. So now I am trying to figure out how I can reconcile the above gut feeling with my Church's declaration that these women martyrs are saints. Maybe I am still falling prey to a false dichotomy, but I can't sort it out in my mind.)

* * *

InnerPhyre, Holly:
I grieve to hear of the rapes of your ex-gf and mother, respectively. Rape is heinous. My heart goes out to you both, and to your loved ones. Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy. :crosseo:
-Vasya.

[Matrona]

I think these virgin-martyrs were ones who specifically consecrated their virginity to Christ, to be a "bride of Christ", basically. I would suggest that you consult with your priest on this.

[Vasya Davidovich]

I think these virgin-martyrs were ones who specifically consecrated their virginity to Christ, to be a "bride of Christ", basically. I would suggest that you consult with your priest on this.
Ah, okay. That would make more sense, then. Thanks.

NB. My priest is awfully busy, and I have to respect his time. I know he wouldn't get anything else done if he tried answering all my questions. I never run out.

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Interesting question, Vasya. I wish I had something profound to add, but I don't. I think the "brides of Christ" thing is true of many of the Virgin Martrys, but I don't think it applies to all of them.:scratch:

[Paisley]

My Mom was raped by a cop a few years ago. And no, I'm not kidding either. The cop ended up losing his license to practice law or whatever because of another sexual crime he committed. My Mom didn't turn him in. Someone else turned him in for something similar.

Holly, having my own experience in law enforcement, I do believe this. There are always one or two - or a few - types that believe they are "above the law" and can commit felonies anytime they want to. The rest of them know it, and will cover it up, even though they do not do such things themselves. It's a code within, and the system is corrupt because of it. I'm glad that one got caught, but that is rare.

[ExOrienteLux]

I'm wondering: would they be considered as martyrs or passion-bearers? That's a rather sizable difference. I'm not trying to diminish their importance or sacrifice, but it's a rather important point.

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip

[vanshan]

I think one thing that distinguishes the virgin saints which I have read about is that they had made the decision to preserve their virginity, desiring to be handmaidens of Christ, rather than marry. This decision had already been made prior to any attempted rapes. In this case, once you've committed this to Christ, it's very honorable to protect it, but in the case of your average woman who plans to marry and give herself to a man, which is not dishonorable at all, rape is not stealing something given to Christ, but rather just a horrible violation.

Basil

[Theophorus]

I remember reading an account of one of the martyrs that made a statement to this effect during her tortures-- you can do what you will with my body, but I belong to Christ and it is He who preserves me.
Sorry, can't remember who it was though, one of the early saints.

[ShiFuBill]

I think these virgin-martyrs were ones who specifically consecrated their virginity to Christ, to be a "bride of Christ", basically. I would suggest that you consult with your priest on this.

I do remember a story of a married woman in, I think, Eusebios' History of the Church who killed herself when her husband handed her over to the emperor.
s.

[The Virginian]

Many years ago a Protestant preacher in one of his sermons asked, "is it the stealing of a horse that makes a horsethief a horsethief. Or does he steal the horse because he is a horsethief. Is it the dying for Christ that makes a person a martyr, or does a person die for Christ because they are a martyr. A witness -which is what the word marty means- is a person who so lives for Christ in this life, that they do count it a loss to lose this earthly life for His sake.

Whether or not it was meant, there's an implied inference in the statement, "... rape is not stelaing something given to Christ, but rather just a horrible violation." , that rape of a woman who intends to marry is not a horrible violation against Christ. Christ died to redeem the entire person, intellectually, sexually, and socially. The woman who does not intend to remain a virgin, is still "...the haindmaid fo the Lord.", a member of His Body, His Bride, the Church. Violating the least of these, is violating Him, unless of course I'm mis-understanding something.

Passion-bearers is a term generally used to refer to those willing to undergo the sufferings of Christ, in this life, while not losing their earthly life. As is plain to see the technical meaning of the term 'martyr', through reason of use has nearly vanished in the Church. However; that's not neccessarily a bad thing.

People the world over would consider the rape of a "nun" to be an unimaginable crime, because they consider her to be a 'holy person'; but, why is it that the same people do not consider the Christian virgin bethroved, as equally holy? Just a thought!



"...let us go, that we too may die with Him."

[Wiffey]

My mother, who attended Catholic convent schools in the 1950's, was told by the nuns that if she had to choose between being murdered or being raped, she should die protecting her virginity, because that way she'd go straight to heaven. It really freaked her out. Needless to say, she gave me the opposite advice: do what you must to stay alive and sort it out with God later.

Sadly, too many of us have to face this choice during our lifetimes. I believe God loves and heals us whichever choice we make. Personally, I'd advise my own daughter to live...


And, FWIW, I consider rape to be a direct offense against not just the person, but against God who has infused that individual with an immortal soul and human dignity. "What you did to the least of these, you did to Me..."
Whether the person is a virgin, or married, or consecrated to Christ, or whatever. It is an affront to human decency and an affront to all of Heaven.

[vanshan]

Whether or not it was meant, there's an implied inference in the statement, "... rape is not stelaing something given to Christ, but rather just a horrible violation." , that rape of a woman who intends to marry is not a horrible violation against Christ.

I'm sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. Forgive me.

Of course, all of our sins are offenses against God. I just think if we have made it a clear decision to consecrate something to Christ, it is honorable to defend that. We all are the temple of the Holy Spirit and are therefore sacred, by God's great mercy. I think it's fine to survive and move on, and it's incredible for those who are deemed worthy of the crown of martyrdom to defend themselves to the point of repose.

Basil