Divorce, remarriage and receiving the Holy Mysteries

[Aymn27]

:scratch: What exactly is the Orthodox teaching on divorce, remarriage and receiving the mysteries?? How is this reconciled with Jesus' teaching against divorce and remarriage? Any posts, links, etc will be greatly appreciated!!

Blessings and peace
Aaron

[Wiffey]

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp

[Marriage, Divorce, and Mixed Marriages

Marriage is one of the sacraments of the Orthodox Church. Orthodox Christians who marry must marry in the Church in order to be in sacramental communion with the Church. According to the Church canons, an Orthodox who marries outside the Church may not receive Holy Communion and may not serve as a sponsor, i.e. a Godparent at a Baptism, or as a sponsor at a Wedding. Certain marriages are prohibited by canon law, such as a marriage between fist and second cousins, or between a Godparent and a Godchild. The fist marriage of a man and a woman is honored by the Church with a richly symbolic service that eloquently speaks to everyone regarding the married state. The form of the service calls upon God to unite the couple through the prayer of the priest or bishop officiating.

The church will permit up to, but not more than, three marriages for any Orthodox Christian. If both partners are entering a second or third marriage, another form of the marriage ceremony is conducted, much more subdued and penitential in character. Marriages end either through the death of one of the partners or through ecclesiastical recognition of divorce. The Church grants "ecclesiastical divorces" on the basis of the exception given by Christ to his general prohibition of the practice. The Church has frequently deplored the rise of divorce and generally sees divorce as a tragic failure. Yet, the Orthodox Church also recognizes that sometimes the spiritual well-being of Christians caught in a broken and essentially nonexistent marriage justifies a divorce, with the right of one or both of the partners to remarry. Each parish priest is required to do all he can to help couples resolve their differences. If they cannot, and they obtain a civil divorce, they may apply for an ecclesiastical divorce in some jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church. In others, the judgment is left to the parish priest when and if a civilly divorced person seeks to remarry.

Those Orthodox jurisdictions which issue ecclesiastical divorces require a thorough evaluation of the situation, and the appearance of the civilly divorced couple before a local ecclesiastical court, where another investigation is made. Only after an ecclesiastical divorce is issued by the presiding bishop can they apply for an ecclesiastical license to remarry.

Though the Church would prefer that all Orthodox Christians would marry Orthodox Christians, it does not insist on it in practice. Out of its concern for the spiritual welfare of members who wish to marry a non-Orthodox Christian, the Church will conduct a "mixed marriage." For this purpose, a "non-Orthodox Christian" is a member of the Roman Catholic Church, or one of the many Protestant Churches which believe in and baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity. This means that such mixed marriages may be performed in the Orthodox Church. However, the Orthodox Church does not perform marriages between Orthodox Christians and persons belonging to other religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any sectarian and cult group, such as Christian Science, Mormonism, or the followers of Rev. Moon. ]

From the Greek Orthodox Archdioscese website.

[Aymn27]

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp

[Marriage, Divorce, and Mixed Marriages

Marriage is one of the sacraments of the Orthodox Church. Orthodox Christians who marry must marry in the Church in order to be in sacramental communion with the Church. According to the Church canons, an Orthodox who marries outside the Church may not receive Holy Communion and may not serve as a sponsor, i.e. a Godparent at a Baptism, or as a sponsor at a Wedding. Certain marriages are prohibited by canon law, such as a marriage between fist and second cousins, or between a Godparent and a Godchild. The fist marriage of a man and a woman is honored by the Church with a richly symbolic service that eloquently speaks to everyone regarding the married state. The form of the service calls upon God to unite the couple through the prayer of the priest or bishop officiating.

The church will permit up to, but not more than, three marriages for any Orthodox Christian. If both partners are entering a second or third marriage, another form of the marriage ceremony is conducted, much more subdued and penitential in character. Marriages end either through the death of one of the partners or through ecclesiastical recognition of divorce. The Church grants "ecclesiastical divorces" on the basis of the exception given by Christ to his general prohibition of the practice. The Church has frequently deplored the rise of divorce and generally sees divorce as a tragic failure. Yet, the Orthodox Church also recognizes that sometimes the spiritual well-being of Christians caught in a broken and essentially nonexistent marriage justifies a divorce, with the right of one or both of the partners to remarry. Each parish priest is required to do all he can to help couples resolve their differences. If they cannot, and they obtain a civil divorce, they may apply for an ecclesiastical divorce in some jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church. In others, the judgment is left to the parish priest when and if a civilly divorced person seeks to remarry.

Those Orthodox jurisdictions which issue ecclesiastical divorces require a thorough evaluation of the situation, and the appearance of the civilly divorced couple before a local ecclesiastical court, where another investigation is made. Only after an ecclesiastical divorce is issued by the presiding bishop can they apply for an ecclesiastical license to remarry.

Though the Church would prefer that all Orthodox Christians would marry Orthodox Christians, it does not insist on it in practice. Out of its concern for the spiritual welfare of members who wish to marry a non-Orthodox Christian, the Church will conduct a "mixed marriage." For this purpose, a "non-Orthodox Christian" is a member of the Roman Catholic Church, or one of the many Protestant Churches which believe in and baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity. This means that such mixed marriages may be performed in the Orthodox Church. However, the Orthodox Church does not perform marriages between Orthodox Christians and persons belonging to other religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any sectarian and cult group, such as Christian Science, Mormonism, or the followers of Rev. Moon. ]

From the Greek Orthodox Archdioscese website.
That helps tremendously..Thank you so much!
So basically they have to obtain an "annullment" (thought not termed that way) through the bishop/priest/or authority?? I was under the impression that no "review" of the situation was required (I was obviously misinformed!!).
blessings,
Aaron

[Wiffey]

That helps tremendously..Thank you so much!
So basically they have to obtain an "annullment" (thought not termed that way) through the bishop/priest/or authority?? I was under the impression that no "review" of the situation was required (I was obviously misinformed!!).
blessings,
Aaron

It depends upon the circumstances. If it was a civil marriage (which the Church does not recognize as valid), then the priest would probably just counsel the individual seeking to be married in the Church in order to see their spiritual readiness for true marriage. If it was a marriage recognized by the Church, then the priest would probably take the matter to his Bishop for ecclesiatic review. At least that is how it seems to work in the Greek Orthodox Archdioscese...


Also, all parties seeking to marry in the Church need to submit all their documents to the Bishop, and undergo pre-marital counseling. The Bishop/Archdioscese OK the impending marriages and send the paperwork to the priest so he can proceed with the wedding.

[Khaleas]

It depends upon the circumstances. If it was a civil marriage (which the Church does not recognize as valid), then the priest would probably just counsel the individual seeking to be married in the Church in order to see their spiritual readiness for true marriage. If it was a marriage recognized by the Church, then the priest would probably take the matter to his Bishop for ecclesiatic review. At least that is how it seems to work in the Greek Orthodox Archdioscese...


Also, all parties seeking to marry in the Church need to submit all their documents to the Bishop, and undergo pre-marital counseling. The Bishop/Archdioscese OK the impending marriages and send the paperwork to the priest so he can proceed with the wedding.

While we're on the topic... If you have had a civil ceremony and then would like to get married in church as well. Is there any particular protocol for that? It's not a divorce situation tho. I'm assuming we wouldn't need a marriage license :D . We didn't have much choice in the matter when we got married with Kevin (Navy said - get married now - due to clearance issues), but we definitely want a church ceremony too (we don't even wear wedding rings because we want to wait until the church ceremony). With the Navy being generally undecisive (nothing new there) we are possibly getting married here in the US instead of Finland.

[Rilian]

While we're on the topic... If you have had a civil ceremony and then would like to get married in church as well. Is there any particular protocol for that?

We asked our priest about this since we were married in a civil ceremony before becoming Orthodox. I seem to remember he said this was not out of the ordinary and that the ceremony was pretty much the same, including the crowning. I can't recall any prerequisites off the top of my head.

Father said some people do this to coincide with an anniversary, and we would probably do it on our 10th.

[Khaleas]

We asked our priest about this since we were married in a civil ceremony before becoming Orthodox. I seem to remember he said this was not out of the ordinary and that the ceremony was pretty much the same, including the crowning. I can't recall any prerequisites off the top of my head.

Father said some people do this to coincide with an anniversary, and we would probably do it on our 10th.

Hopefully we can get married again before our 1st. ;)
I talked with my friend in Panama who is Catholic and she said in Panama you actually have to get a civil service before the church will marry you. I thought that was kinda odd.
Father has met my husband as well and he asked about him again last night. I'm so grateful to have found this wonderful parish with all the wonderful people (even the non-English speaking Russians were nice yesterday). :clap:

[Aymn27]

We asked our priest about this since we were married in a civil ceremony before becoming Orthodox. I seem to remember he said this was not out of the ordinary and that the ceremony was pretty much the same, including the crowning. I can't recall any prerequisites off the top of my head.

Father said some people do this to coincide with an anniversary, and we would probably do it on our 10th.
:scratch: Wait, the Orthodox church recognizes civil marriages as legit?? I am RC (but looking East or Continuing Anglican) so I am not fully aware of Orthodox teaching. In the RCC you must be married by a priest or the marriage must be witnessed by a priest to have full access to the sacraments...is that not true for the Orthodox?

Blessings,
Aaron

[Rilian]

Aymn27, I don't know all of the particulars and it was a while ago that we talked to our priest about this, but what I recall is the following:

A civil marriage is recognized as a marriage, but not in the sacramental sense as a marriage is that is performed in the church. We are seen as married, our children are legitimate and we can partake in communion. There have been times in the history of the church for instance where marriages in the church were hard or impossible to get, such as during the days of the U.S.S.R.

Anyone not married in the church, who is or who becomes Orthodox, is encouraged to add this sacramental aspect to their marriage. Having the mysterion of the sacrament added gives the marriage a fullness that would not have been there otherwise.

Anyone please correct me if this is inaccurate or if I left something out.

[Orthosdoxa]

Nope, sounds good to me, Ril. :)

[Paisley]

According to the Church canons, an Orthodox who marries outside the Church may not receive Holy Communion . . .

Okay, I'm a bit confused here. Take my situation, for instance. I'm married, and if I would become a convert, but my husband does not convert, our marriage doesn't count (though we've been married for 30 years)... and I could not take Holy Communion? Or does this only apply to singles in communion, and they marry outside of the church?

[Oblio]

Okay, I'm a bit confused here. Take my situation, for instance. I'm married, and if I would become a convert, but my husband does not convert, our marriage doesn't count (though we've been married for 30 years)... and I could not take Holy Communion? Or does this only apply to singles in communion, and they marry outside of the church?



According to the Church canons, an Orthodox who marries outside the Church may not receive Holy Communion . . .


Means that they married outside the Church while Orthodox. This does not apply (AFAIK) to your activities prior to becoming Orthodox.

You must however, if married, be married to a Christian to be accepted into the Church.

[Philip]

Means that they married outside the Church while Orthodox. This does not apply (AFAIK) to your activities prior to becoming Orthodox.


It has not been an issue for me.

[Paisley]

Means that they married outside the Church while Orthodox. This does not apply (AFAIK) to your activities prior to becoming Orthodox.

You must however, if married, be married to a Christian to be accepted into the Church.

We are both Lutherans at this present time.

[Mary of Bethany]

Paisley,

my husband and I will be celebrating our 30th anniversary in May. We were married by a Baptist preacher in my parents home. I converted in 2001, without my husband, and attend an OCA parish. There is absolutely no problem in receiving the Holy Mysteries or any other sacrament of the Church. We cannot have a church "wedding" unless or until he becomes Orthodox, but we are going to have our marriage blessed by my priest on this upcoming anniversary.

I hope that answers your concerns.

Mary

[Monica, child of God]

You must however, if married, be married to a Christian to be accepted into the Church.

:confused: I am not sure that I am reading this the way you intended but are you saying that to become Orthodox your spouse must be Christian? For example, are you saying that if a Muslim man seeks to convert but his Muslim wife doesn't, then he can't be baptized into the Faith? That is not the case, as far as I know.

But if you are saying that an Orthodox person who marries outside of the Church, in order to have said marriage blessed by the Church, must be civily espoused to a Christian, then I understand that to be true.

Monica

[Rilian]

Paisley, just as an aside, I think it's worth mentioning that the church canons are essentially guidelines. They are not hard and fast rules that are kept to the letter of the law. The living church is what guides and makes use of how the canons are applied.

There's two words in Greek that probably describe this best, akrivia (strictness) and ekonomia (relaxation). It is balancing these two that keeps Orthodoxy traditional, firm and clear about what it teaches, yet at the same time will allow for shaping the rules to help us reach salvation as we navigate life as fallen and fragile human beings. A priest will always take these in to account as he tries to decide what may be best for the state of your soul.

It's hard to really explain, and I'm sure I'm not doing it well.

[Matrona]

Oblio, I think you are slightly mistaken. A catechumen whose spouse is not Christian may convert to Orthodoxy, as far as I know, but I don't think that catechumen would be allowed holy orders.

Aymn, welcome to TAW--I advise you to present your questions to an Orthodox priest so that you are sure you have been given the correct information.

[Aymn27]

Oblio, I think you are slightly mistaken. A catechumen whose spouse is not Christian may convert to Orthodoxy, as far as I know, but I don't think that catechumen would be allowed holy orders.

Aymn, welcome to TAW--I advise you to present your questions to an Orthodox priest so that you are sure you have been given the correct information.
Matrona,
Thank you for the welcome!! I looked at OCA site and it seems pretty clear to me. I was just wondering and is not a concern in my own life. Thank you for responding.

blessings and peace,
Aaron

[Xpycoctomos]

oopss... I guess i should read the entire thread before posting :)

[Oblio]

Oblio, I think you are slightly mistaken.


Perhaps I am, I will seek clarification on this and update later.

[Paisley]

Paisley, just as an aside, I think it's worth mentioning that the church canons are essentially guidelines. They are not hard and fast rules that are kept to the letter of the law. The living church is what guides and makes use of how the canons are applied.

There's two words in Greek that probably describe this best, akrivia (strictness) and ekonomia (relaxation). It is balancing these two that keeps Orthodoxy traditional, firm and clear about what it teaches, yet at the same time will allow for shaping the rules to help us reach salvation as we navigate life as fallen and fragile human beings. A priest will always take these in to account as he tries to decide what may be best for the state of your soul.

It's hard to really explain, and I'm sure I'm not doing it well.


Well, at this point it is not a huge issue with me. I will be continuing my studies into this faith. I thank everyone for the time spent responding to my inquiry.

[33ad]

Hopefully we can get married again before our 1st. ;)
I talked with my friend in Panama who is Catholic and she said in Panama you actually have to get a civil service before the church will marry you. I thought that was kinda odd.
Father has met my husband as well and he asked about him again last night. I'm so grateful to have found this wonderful parish with all the wonderful people (even the non-English speaking Russians were nice yesterday). :clap:

Even in Russia, a marriage in church is not recognized by the state. So the practice in Russia is to marry in a civil service just before a Crowning ceremony.

What's more, Seraphima and I have both been married twice before. The priest said whatever happened before we became Orthodox is of no consequence to the Church, and does not count. We were married in a Baptist church, so our being a married couple was recognised by the church at our Chrismation. But as most of you know, we made it official on our anniversary this year and had the Crowning ceremony. We are now well and truly wedded Orthodox Christians.

The ceremony performed was for the "First Time" marriage, not the special "Second Marriage" ceremony the Church has. So basically, our slate has been wiped clean and this is our "First Marriage".

Kolya

[33ad]

A catechumen whose spouse is not Christian may convert to Orthodoxy, as far as I know, but I don't think that catechumen would be allowed holy orders.

I don't think so Matrona. Any catechumen who converts and is Baptised / Chrismated may be allowed holy orders. In the ROC - MP at any rate.
But as always, if in doubt ask your priest.

Kolya

[stillerfan]

i have heard many instances of people converting to our faith that they were clergy in catholicism / protestants, and they did become priests....

[Khaleas]

The ceremony performed was for the "First Time" marriage, not the special "Second Marriage" ceremony the Church has. So basically, our slate has been wiped clean and this is our "First Marriage".

Kolya

This is how I feel going toward Pasha and Chrismation and Confession... I get this feeling that my slate is going to be wiped clean and this will be my spiritual second chance.
And I'm going to make darn sure I don't mess it up!

[33ad]

This is how I feel going toward Pasha and Chrismation and Confession... I get this feeling that my slate is going to be wiped clean and this will be my spiritual second chance.
And I'm going to make darn sure I don't mess it up!

And I'm quite sure you won't:)


Kolya

[Wiffey]

Hi Kolya! My slate was also wiped clean, to the glory of God! So when my husband and I were married in the Church, I very much felt that it was my first real marriage. It was certainly the first time that Christ was at the center of my relationship. The difference that makes is incalculable!
Many years to you and your bride!

[Fotina]

I don't think so Matrona. Any catechumen who converts and is Baptised / Chrismated may be allowed holy orders. In the ROC - MP at any rate.
But as always, if in doubt ask your priest.

Kolya

How does a non-Christian perform her duties as spouse to one who holds holy orders? Can you give examples in ROC-MP?

[33ad]

How does a non-Christian perform her duties as spouse to one who holds holy orders? Can you give examples in ROC-MP?

My fasting must have affected my judgement.:blush: My humble apologies.:bow:

Kolya