Coptic Pope?

[BjBarnett]

Hello everyone! :wave:

Ive heard people talk about a "Coptic Pope". Is there really a Coptic Pope? If so is it in the same fashion as the Catholic pope? thank in advanced.

[CopticGirl]

The Pope of the Coptic Church is H.H. Pope Shenouda III. To be honest I don't know to much about the Catholic Pope, but just as Pope John Paul is the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Shenouda is the head of the Coptic Church.

Here is a biography on Pope Shenouda, along with some other info on the Coptic Church:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/pope/#Biography

What I do know, is just as Pope John Paul is the successor of St. Peter, Pope Shenouda is the 117th successor of St. Mark, who is the founder of our church.

One difference that I did notice when discussing with Catholics, is as the Catholic Pope is considered infallible, we do not believe our Pope is.

Hope this helps at all, let me know if you have any questions.

God Bless

[BjBarnett]

The Pope of the Coptic Church is H.H. Pope Shenouda III. To be honest I don't know to much about the Catholic Pope, but just as Pope John Paul is the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Shenouda is the head of the Coptic Church.

Here is a biography on Pope Shenouda, along with some other info on the Coptic Church:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/pope/#Biography

What I do know, is just as Pope John Paul is the successor of St. Peter, Pope Shenouda is the 117th successor of St. Mark, who is the founder of our church.

One difference that I did notice when discussing with Catholics, is as the Catholic Pope is considered infallible, we do not believe our Pope is.

Hope this helps at all, let me know if you have any questions.

God Bless


thats cool. thanks for the link. i had no idea that you guys had a pope. thanks for the response! :D

[CopticGirl]

I'm happy to answer any questions you have. So many know so little about us, so I love to teach people about us.

God Bless

[BjBarnett]

Good, cause I have another question lol. Does your Pope have power over the entire church? Like outside of his diocese? I know the Anglicans consider the Bishop of Canterberry to be the head of there church but he has no power outside of his diocese.

[CopticGirl]

We do not claim that our Pope should be or is the head of all Christians or all Orthodox Christians even. He is the head of the entire Coptic Orthodox Church, and that is where his power ends. We do not claim that say for example an Armenian Orthodox Christian or Syrian Orthodox Christian should be or is under his jurisdiction, yet the Armenian Orthodox and Syrian Orthodox Churches each have their own Patriarch, who is their head.

Keep em coming:)

God Bless

[Rilian]

My understanding was the title Pope had come from the word "Papa" and had a much more widespread use in the early church. Wikipedia says the following in its entry for the Pope:

The word "Pope" is derived from the Greek word pappas ("father") and was originally used in an affectionate sense of any priest or bishop (in the exact same way that modern priests are addressed as "Father"). In the fourth and fifth centuries, pappas (Latinized as papa, a form still preserved in Spanish and Portuguese) was still frequently used of any bishop in the West, although it gradually came to be increasingly restricted to its modern, exclusive use by the Bishop of Rome. In the East, especially in Greece and Russia, priests are still referred to as pappas.

As early as the third century, the Bishop of Alexandria exercised a high degree of central control of suffragan Egyptian bishops, in a manner consciously similar to the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome; the Alexandrian archbishop was given precedence immediately after the Roman pontiff by the Council of Nicaea, and adopted the title "Pope of Alexandria," which still forms an integral part of the titles of the Greek Orthodox "Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa" and of the Coptic "Pope of Alexandria and of the See of Saint Mark the Apostle."

[QustantinahQuaker]

We do not claim that our Pope should be or is the head of all Christians or all Orthodox Christians even. He is the head of the entire Coptic Orthodox Church, and that is where his power ends. We do not claim that say for example an Armenian Orthodox Christian or Syrian Orthodox Christian should be or is under his jurisdiction, yet the Armenian Orthodox and Syrian Orthodox Churches each have their own Patriarch, who is their head.

Keep em coming:)

God Bless

The Syrian Orthodox Church has it's own Pope; Pope Ignatius Zakka I Iwas. He is sometimes called Pope.

[CopticGirl]

The Syrian Orthodox Church has it's own Pope; Pope Ignatius Zakka I Iwas. He is sometimes called Pope.

I didn't know that. I thought all the other Orthodox Churches called them Patriarchs. I guess I was wrong! Although Pope really is just another word for father.

God Bless

[Yeznik]

The Armenians don't have a pope, we have a Katholicos, or the Supreme Patriarch of the Church.

[CopticGirl]

Here are some pictures of the Oriental Orthodox Church leaders:


http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting2.jpg


The 7th Meeting of the Heads of the Oriental Orthodox Churches. H. H. Patriarch Ignatius Zakka Iwas I, H. H. Pope Shenouda III and H. H. Catholicos Aram I.

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting7.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-3783-fullsize-1.html)

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting6.jpg

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting5.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-3781-fullsize-1.html)

God Bless

[Irish Melkite]

The Syrian Orthodox Church has it's own Pope; Pope Ignatius Zakka I Iwas. He is sometimes called Pope.

Qustantinah,

In my experience, I have never seen or heard His Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas, Patriarch of Antioch & All the East, styled as Pope.

The usage, although historically applied to bishops and priests as indicated by the piece that Rilian quoted, is presently restricted to:

His Holiness Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria & Patriarch of the See of Saint Mark (his formal title, as best I recollect) (His Holiness has an exquisite website, www.copticpope.org (http://www.copticpope.org/), but it appears at the moment to have been hacked, something one hopes will be quickly remedied);
His Holiness John Paul II, Pope of Rome; and,
His Beatitude Theodoros II, (Greek Orthodox) Pope & Patriarch of Alexandria & All Africa.
All of the other presiding hierarchs of Oriental or Eastern Churches, Orthodox or Catholic, style themselves as either Patriarch or Catholicos.

Many years,

Neil

[QustantinahQuaker]

I have only heard him called Pope by a few people but I was just giving my hearings of it. Thank you for your informations!

[Kripost]

<snipped>

[list]
His Holiness Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria & Patriarch of the See of Saint Mark (his formal title, as best I recollect) (His Holiness has an exquisite website, www.copticpope.org (http://www.copticpope.org/), but it appears at the moment to have been hacked, something one hopes will be quickly remedied);
</snipped>


The full title of the Pope of Alexandria is pretty long:
"His Beatitude, the Pope and the Patriarch of the Great City of Alexandria, Libya, Pentapolis of Ethiopia, all of the country of Egypt and Africa. Father of Fathers, Shepherd of Shepherds, High Priest of High Priests, the thirteenth one of the Apostles and judge of the Universe."

As far as I know, both the Greek Patriarch of Alexandria and the Coptic Patriarch use the title. (I still find the last part pretty awsome)

[CopticGirl]

"His Beatitude, the Pope and the Patriarch of the Great City of Alexandria, Libya, Pentapolis of Ethiopia, all of the country of Egypt and Africa. Father of Fathers, Shepherd of Shepherds, High Priest of High Priests, the thirteenth one of the Apostles and judge of the Universe."




Not that I'm saying this title is incorrect, but I have never heard/read that title anywhere before. Within the church he is refered to as "H.H. Pope Shenouda III" and sometimes this end part added on--"Pope and Patriarch of the Great City of Alexandria."


the thirteenth one of the Apostles and judge of the Universe.


As for this part, I don't really understand where they get the number 13. Could you explain. I know he is the 117th successor of St. Mark the Apostle, so it can't be refering to that.

God Bless

[Kripost]

Not that I'm saying this title is incorrect, but I have never heard/read that title anywhere before. Within the church he is refered to as "H.H. Pope Shenouda III" and sometimes this end part added on--"Pope and Patriarch of the Great City of Alexandria."




My mistake... it appears only the Greek Patriarch of Alexandria uses this title.

[font=Arial]
As for this part, I don't really understand where they get the number 13. Could you explain. I know he is the 117th successor of St. Mark the Apostle, so it can't be refering to that.

God Bless

The thirteenth apostle can refer to anyone who was not one of the Twelve, but also did the work of the apostles. Some notable examples would be St. Mary Magdelene, St. Constantine. In this case i think it refers to St Mark.

[CopticGirl]

My mistake... it appears only the Greek Patriarch of Alexandria uses this title.




Okay, Thanks...I was wondering where you got that title from. ;)

[feo]

Here are some pictures of the Oriental Orthodox Church leaders:


http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting2.jpg


The 7th Meeting of the Heads of the Oriental Orthodox Churches. H. H. Patriarch Ignatius Zakka Iwas I, H. H. Pope Shenouda III and H. H. Catholicos Aram I.

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting7.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-3783-fullsize-1.html)

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting6.jpg

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/13532/2004Oct_OOmeeting5.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-3781-fullsize-1.html)

God Bless

I wish their clothing had brighter colors.

[Irish Melkite]

I wish their clothing had brighter colors.

Feo,

I think you have to realize that these are what would typically be thought of, in Western terms, as routine clerical vesture, as opposed to the vestments they would don when celebrating the Liturgy or performing other ceremonial duties. For example

His Holiness Pope Shenouda III (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimage-album-32-pos-34.html)

His Holiness Aram I, Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia (http://www.cathcil.org/mm/v01.gif)

Many years,

Neil

[feo]

Feo,

I think you have to realize that these are what would typically be thought of, in Western terms, as routine clerical vesture, as opposed to the vestments they would don when celebrating the Liturgy or performing other ceremonial duties. For example

His Holiness Pope Shenouda III (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimage-album-32-pos-34.html)

His Holiness Aram I, Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia (http://www.cathcil.org/mm/v01.gif)

Many years,

Neil

Ohhhh I see; so the darker bland clothing is for.. everyday wear and tear... whereas the colorful outfits are more for the liturgy?

(hehe please excuse my ignorance! I know nothing about this stuff!)

[CopticGirl]

Yes, during the liturgies, they dress in fancier clothing, typically of white and gold, because during that time they are considered to be Christ's representative on earth. Otherwise, you will always see them in plain black.

God Bless.

[feo]

So!

Does that mean theres a Coptic Vatican?

[CopticGirl]

I'm not that familiar with Catholicism, so I'm not exactly sure as to what you mean by a "Coptic Vatican". What would that entail?

God Bless

[feo]

I'm not that familiar with Catholicism, so I'm not exactly sure as to what you mean by a "Coptic Vatican". What would that entail?

God Bless

Well, "Roman Catholic" means... uhm, simply Roman. Meaning, the Pope lives in Rome. Does the Coptic Pope live in Egypt? Is Egypt the Coptic "headquarters"?

[CopticGirl]

Well, "Roman Catholic" means... uhm, simply Roman. Meaning, the Pope lives in Rome. Does the Coptic Pope live in Egypt? Is Egypt the Coptic "headquarters"?

Oh, that's all your asking? Yes, the Pope lives in Egypt. Here is a picture of the Cathedral in Egypt, where the Pope resides.

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/10118/Cathedral2.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-376-fullsize-1.html)

[feo]

Oh, that's all your asking? Yes, the Pope lives in Egypt. Here is a picture of the Cathedral in Egypt, where the Pope resides.

http://www.coptichymns.net/userpics/10118/Cathedral2.jpg (http://www.coptichymns.net/Coptic_Photos-displayimagepopup-pid-376-fullsize-1.html)

That place is pretty pimpin. But the only Coptic Church I was able to go inside... was "St George Church" in Heliopolis.

[Globalnomad]

The Vatican is a special sort of arrangement, because - due to historical reasons - it is an independent State. It's not as if a Pope HAD to be the head of an independent State. Pope Shenouda lives as a bishop or a patriarch would in any other Church.

If you can get Egyptian TV on your satellite dish where you live, watch the Coptic Easter vigil, three weeks from now - I suppose it will be in that cathedral - Egyptian TV (even though it's officially a Muslim country) has been carrying it live every year for a while now.

[minasoliman]

HH Pope Shenouda likes to spend a lot of his time with God in a private poor cell, like the monks. So you can call this "his office" as opposed to his "residence."

God bless.

[domi]

could u use abduna to adress the pope or does that just work for preist? ANd how old r u cuz i want to call someone taunte :) And ur icon..coptic girls icon..is that from the siting of saint mary on top of the coptic churhc in egypt? I thought that was so cool. Did u get to see it?

[CopticGirl]

could u use abduna to adress the pope or does that just work for preist? ANd how old r u cuz i want to call someone taunte :) And ur icon..coptic girls icon..is that from the siting of saint mary on top of the coptic churhc in egypt? I thought that was so cool. Did u get to see it?

This post is kinda...funny. :) Why do you want to call someone taunte?? I'm not old enough to be called that yet! Yes my avatar is of St. Mary when she appeared in Zeitoun, Egypt, but no I was not their to see it.

Abouna is generally used for priests. But abouna means "our father" and Pope is also another word for papa=father.

So how do you know all of this stuff?

God Bless.

[domi]

that's stupid i can't deate this post. Ok. Read the one below it.

[domi]

This post is kinda...funny. :) Why do you want to call someone taunte?? I'm not old enough to be called that yet! Yes my avatar is of St. Mary when she appeared in Zeitoun, Egypt, but no I was not their to see it.

Abouna is generally used for priests. But abouna means "our father" and Pope is also another word for papa=father.

So how do you know all of this stuff?

God Bless.

I want to call someone taunte because it's a awesome name and my taunte is mad at me and now i'm depressed so i figured the best thing to do would be to froget about it and find another taunte. It's weird i know.

That's so cool that ur Avatior is of that i saw that on tv and i though it was so awsome. Then of course i was relay bummed that i wasn't there. Lol but hey i guss i can't win them all. To bad u didn't get to see it either.

That's for cleaning that Abduna sutff up for me. That's cool. I like the word Abouna hehehe so that's cool i can use it or a pope 2.

I know all this stuff b cuz after converting to Islam I met my buddy Hany and i started asking him questions about stuff in Christanty that i didn't understand and he's coptic so basicly now the stuff i know baout Chirstniaty is mostly about Coptic Christanity.

If your interested u can find those Forums at saintmaryofsac.org by clicking on the fourms tab.

I hope that helps.

[CopticGirl]

I know all this stuff b cuz after converting to Islam I met my buddy Hany and i started asking him questions about stuff in Christanty that i didn't understand and he's coptic so basicly now the stuff i know baout Chirstniaty is mostly about Coptic Christanity.




So what religion are you now? You're icon is an EO one, but all you know about Christianity is Coptic?

God Bless

[domi]

i guss i would be coptic orthodox hence the EO i'm gussing that's orthodox..icon.

[CopticGirl]

i guss i would be coptic orthodox hence the EO i'm gussing that's orthodox..icon.

Well I'm happy to hear that you are not Muslim. By EO I meant Eastern Orthodox. The Coptic Church is part of the Oriental Orthodox Churches. You should change your icon then. They have one for our church. :)

Do you attend a Coptic Orthodox Church? If not I can help you find one in your area. There are a few websites that have lists of the Coptic Orthodox Churches in each area.

God Bless.

[domi]

no i don't, i have no idea where to find one. I would realy be thrilled if i could find a coptic orthodx church in my area. I would like to meet other people and become part of a youth group. It would be great if u could help me find one. Shokren O btw did u get a chance to look at the fourms i sent u?

In christ
-Domi

[CopticGirl]

Well tell me what state you live in and I'll tell you where you can find a church and the contact info for it. The youth groups in the COC's are excellent. They really do help the youth a lot and provide all sorts of events to get you involved.

I haven't had too much of a chance to look at the forum, but I definately will.

God Bless.

[domi]

I live in NY state. But the only problem i have is that i live in the country..i'll give u the zipcode but i dun feal like posting it for the wole world..and the only coptic churches i'm able to find are all the way upstate in brookin. :'( Thanks for ur help.

-Domi