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View Full Version : Difficult choices coming soon -- sooner than you may think


Henaynei
15th April 2004, 08:16 PM
The below was originally written just after 9/11/01 - but remain no less cogent today than then......

What I [think out loud] below will possibly make some of you scared, others angry, still others prayerful - however, they are just my musings as I pray and consider the current happenings........ sobering thoughts and the grist for much prayer.

There IS a state religion in America. It is protected by law, funded by our taxes and given preferential treatment in all areas of civil and social life. It is Pantheism [Merriam-Webster: the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire] Essentially creating a god after their own image, they imagine in their hardened hearts that all gods, any gods, are really just the same god........

Is it possible this time that we (Believers and Servants of HaShem [G-d], the Unique and Holy) are entering is similar to the time that the Messianic Jews experienced around 70 AD?

They wanted desperately to fight along side their Jewish brethren/countrymen to rid Israel of the Roman oppression and terror - but could not because the 'banner' of the leader of the Israeli forces was his claim to being THE Messiah, and the Rabbis so proclaimed him. [To the Rabbis it seemed politically expedient to create a point around which the most Jews could rally and secure their common will - sound familiar?] The Messianic Jews could not follow a false messiah, no matter what the earthly cost. What a difficult and gut wrenching choice that must have been. The price for the Messianic Jewish community [how many capitulated, rejected Yeshua and embraced Bar Kokhba??] was eventual, and almost total, annihilation, and for the entire house of Israel [Messianic and non-Messianic, alike] defeat and the Diaspora.......

Fast forward to today ---------------------->

Our nation is under attack... we have reeled with the images, thoughts, implications.... now our nation is going to war.

However, the banner of this war is "As we pray to G-d let us remember that 'all gods are the Same god.'" In other words - Buddha is god, Allah is god, Krishna is god, Yeshua is G-d...... etc. This was seen very clearly in the addresses given at the National Day of Prayer and Remembrance, where the invocation stated they were praying in the name of "the G-d of the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims." They used the singular, "G-d," not the plural, "gods." Plural 'gods' would have been blasphemy enough. But to attribute to the One, True and Holy G-d, that his name is also Allah - is clear and supreme blasphemy. Similar statements [including Allah and other gods (sihks, hindus, buddists, shinto, etc.... as the same as G-d] have also been heard at gatherings of prayer and rememberence around the country.

G-d says:

Isaiah 42:8 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=isa+42:8&version=str&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) I am the L-RD: that is My Name: and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images [idols/other gods].

Isaiah 48:11 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=isa+48:11&version=str&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) For Mine own sake, even for Mine own sake, will I do it: for how should My Name be polluted? and I will not give My glory unto another [god].

We all see marquees, banners and signs declaring: "G-d Bless America!" But almost no where do you see or even hear: "America, Repent so G-d CAN bless you!"

I fully recognize, and agree, that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were ill-advised, and even wrong, in their address to the nation. But I agree with the scriptural premise on which they based it. The problem was more the WAY they said what they said, not with WHAT they said.

They seem to see the problem of disobedience to G-d and sin in this country as a "you" problem and not a "we" problem. All the Kings, Prophets and Priests in G-d's word that ever called the people of G-d to repentance started their warning with WE - they got down on their faces and begged forgiveness from G-d for their own callus disobedience before they pointed their fingers at the nation.

However, as difficult to hear as it might be, it remains true that G-d says:

Deut. 29:17 You have seen their [other nation's] detestable things, the filthy idols of wood and stone, of silver and gold, that were among them. 29:18 It may be that there is among you a man or woman, or a family or tribe, whose heart is already turning away from the L-rd our G-d to serve the gods of those nations. It may be that there is among you a root sprouting poisonous and bitter growth. 29:19 All who hear the words of this oath and bless themselves, thinking in their hearts, "We are safe even though we go our own stubborn ways" [saying: "My god is a good G-d and would never do these things, no matter what I/we do"]— 29:20 the L-rd will be unwilling to pardon them, for the L-rd's anger and passion will smoke against them. All the curses written in this book will descend on them, and the L-rd will blot out their names from under heaven. 29:22 The next generation, your children who rise up after you, as well as the foreigner who comes from a distant country, will see the devastation of that land and the afflictions with which the Lord has afflicted it— [b]The Body of Messiah in this country claims as their birthright, the blessings of Deut 28, which were clearly given to Israel. *IF* they claim the blessings inherited from obedience they must also be willing to accept the responsibility to the outcomes of disobedience - you *can't* have your cake and eat it too! G-d has set the rules, whether we like it or not.

29:23 all its soil burned out by sulfur and salt, nothing planted, nothing sprouting, unable to support any vegetation, like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the L-rd destroyed in his fierce anger— 29:24 they and indeed all the nations will wonder, "Why has the L-rd done thus to this land? What caused this great display of anger?" 29:25 They will conclude, "It is because they abandoned the covenant of the L-rd, the G-d of their ancestors, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt. 29:26 They turned and served other gods, worshiping them, gods whom they had not known and whom he had not allotted to them; 29:27 so the anger of the L-rd was kindled against that land, bringing on it every curse written in this book. 29:28 The L-rd uprooted them from their land in anger, fury, and great wrath, and cast them into another land, as is now the case." 29:29 The secret things belong to the L-rd our G-d, but the revealed things belong to us and to our children forever, to observe all the words of this law. There is SO much of which we ALL need to repent - so much for which we need to be on our faces day and night pleading with G-d to forgive us......................

Where is the national call to repentance, will any one sound the Shofar (alarm blast), will anyone listen? If not, what is our decision as Servants of the only True G-d? Are you contemplating your choice? What would it be?

Should we be fasting and praying for the repentance of our country between now and Yom Kippur, and further if necessary??? What happened to Israel when they went out to battle in rebellion to G-d's Word?

I tremble, I weep.......................... I beg a Righteous and Just G-d for mercy....... and steel myself for making choices.............

Isaiah 50:7 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=isa+50:7&version=nrs&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) The L-rd G-d helps me; therefore I have not been disgraced; therefore I have set my face like flint, and I know that I shall not be put to shame;

visionary
16th April 2004, 08:40 AM
You are so right.....this is exactly what the Lord has been saying.....very well put...although I vaguely remember a few years ago, a minister prayed in the White House, a shocking prayer of repentence for the nation...sorry can not remember the details.

Blessed2003
16th April 2004, 10:00 AM
I admit, I have been ashamed to say the detestable things that go on in my own country, I (and if someone attacks me for this statement, so be it, it is TRUE) In agony I look around me, (I too have forsaken the way of the Holy One) I see the society I live in is completely abominable. No one calls for repentance, no one. They preach Grace by Faith, (a non acting faith) I don't discount the sacrafice of the Messiah, It is only through His Grace that I, or any, will enter in the presence of the Holy One, but what about OBEDIENCE. My soul is in agony, I fear for my self, my friends, my family, my neighbor's. No one seems to care. No one wants to repent. The TV is detestable, the sexual sins are detestable, our diet is detestable, our working to live, and living to work, so we can indulge ourselves in pleasures is detestable. (I do not imply that I am not guilty, I am, though I fight to forsake my own way) I don't know what to do. I am laughed at and ridiculed when I speak these things, I am insulted and told Grace honey, don't think you can earn heaven.. I DON'T...But I am sick of people saying we don't have responsibilities, WE DO. It might be like this everywhere I don't know. America is the nation that claims "In G-d we trust" well, we are an adulterous wife, and how long do we really think this will be allowed? I do beg for mercy, I have forsaken the ways of the Holy One, but I want to do everything He wants for me to do, I am quite confused half the time because I am led astray by the teachings of the false teachers. When will I learn, when will we learn. If sack cloth and ashes would change things I would find some. No, not one. ALL have forsaken His ways.
In repentance..
Brandy

visionary
16th April 2004, 10:15 AM
I admit, I have been ashamed to say the detestable things that go on in my own country, I (and if someone attacks me for this statement, so be it, it is TRUE) In agony I look around me, (I too have forsaken the way of the Holy One) I see the society I live in is completely abominable. No one calls for repentance, no one. They preach Grace by Faith, (a non acting faith) I don't discount the sacrafice of the Messiah, It is only through His Grace that I, or any, will enter in the presence of the Holy One, but what about OBEDIENCE. My soul is in agony, I fear for my self, my friends, my family, my neighbor's. No one seems to care. No one wants to repent. The TV is detestable, the sexual sins are detestable, our diet is detestable, our working to live, and living to work, so we can indulge ourselves in pleasures is detestable. (I do not imply that I am not guilty, I am, though I fight to forsake my own way) I don't know what to do. I am laughed at and ridiculed when I speak these things, I am insulted and told Grace honey, don't think you can earn heaven.. I DON'T...But I am sick of people saying we don't have responsibilities, WE DO. It might be like this everywhere I don't know. America is the nation that claims "In G-d we trust" well, we are an adulterous wife, and how long do we really think this will be allowed? I do beg for mercy, I have forsaken the ways of the Holy One, but I want to do everything He wants for me to do, I am quite confused half the time because I am led astray by the teachings of the false teachers. When will I learn, when will we learn. If sack cloth and ashes would change things I would find some. No, not one. ALL have forsaken His ways.
In repentance..
Brandy

In the spiritual battle for our souls, the Lord in His wisdom, after taking down the Baal worshippers in our hearts and replacing it with the altar of God, and we find that we are alone like Elijah, will come and comfort us, by opening our eyes to others who are fighting the good fight too.

May you be blessed, by His appointed hand upon your eyes that you may see the wonderous workings of God upon the lives of those around you. Your prayers have not gone unnoticed. Your efforts will not go unrewarded. It is the Lord's work, and He shall accomplish it. "Be still and know that I am God" In fact read all of Ps 46...as it may help calm the turbulance of your heart.

ShirChadash
16th April 2004, 10:29 AM
I admit, I have been ashamed to say the detestable things that go on in my own country, I (and if someone attacks me for this statement, so be it, it is TRUE) In agony I look around me, (I too have forsaken the way of the Holy One) I see the society I live in is completely abominable. No one calls for repentance, no one. They preach Grace by Faith, (a non acting faith) I don't discount the sacrafice of the Messiah, It is only through His Grace that I, or any, will enter in the presence of the Holy One, but what about OBEDIENCE. My soul is in agony, I fear for my self, my friends, my family, my neighbor's. No one seems to care. No one wants to repent. The TV is detestable, the sexual sins are detestable, our diet is detestable, our working to live, and living to work, so we can indulge ourselves in pleasures is detestable. (I do not imply that I am not guilty, I am, though I fight to forsake my own way) I don't know what to do. I am laughed at and ridiculed when I speak these things, I am insulted and told Grace honey, don't think you can earn heaven.. I DON'T...But I am sick of people saying we don't have responsibilities, WE DO. It might be like this everywhere I don't know. America is the nation that claims "In G-d we trust" well, we are an adulterous wife, and how long do we really think this will be allowed? I do beg for mercy, I have forsaken the ways of the Holy One, but I want to do everything He wants for me to do, I am quite confused half the time because I am led astray by the teachings of the false teachers. When will I learn, when will we learn. If sack cloth and ashes would change things I would find some. No, not one. ALL have forsaken His ways.
In repentance..
Brandy
Much love, Brandy. I totally agree and my heart cries also... :cry: I hate sin and how easily I fall into it... :( I too am sick of people espousing cheap grace... :sigh: Grace shouldn't be cheap to us... look what it cost our Messiah!

Blessed2003
16th April 2004, 10:35 AM
I am posting this here because I have your attention LOL, but I have inquired about a Messianic Judiasim congregation here where I live and there is not one do you have any suggestions as to a group I could meet with that has similar beliefs?
Thanks,
Brandy

ShirChadash
16th April 2004, 01:07 PM
There are some online listings of MJ communities in the search engines (google, etc.) You can search a few different ways for them... I'll see if I can find a fairly comprehensive one and maybe you'll find something relatively near you...

Maybe one of these will help:

http://home.pressroom.com/therabbi/ResourceCenter/MessianicJewish/MESCONGREGLINKS.HTM


http://www.petahtikvah.com/PT/html/MESSIANICDIRECTORY.htm


this one: http://www.churches.com/directory/
has a pull down menu for you to choose Messianic Jewish congregations and plug in your area... you might find something near you from there...


this one may provide you interesting links, etc.

http://sg.geocities.com/shenlan.geo/messianic.html

Hope those help. For a more direct search you could use google.com and just plug in your area and "Messianic Jewish congregation."

Shalom

visionary
16th April 2004, 02:21 PM
There are some online listings of MJ communities in the search engines (google, etc.) You can search a few different ways for them... I'll see if I can find a fairly comprehensive one and maybe you'll find something relatively near you...

Maybe one of these will help:

http://home.pressroom.com/therabbi/ResourceCenter/MessianicJewish/MESCONGREGLINKS.HTM


http://www.petahtikvah.com/PT/html/MESSIANICDIRECTORY.htm


this one: http://www.churches.com/directory/
has a pull down menu for you to choose Messianic Jewish congregations and plug in your area... you might find something near you from there...


this one may provide you interesting links, etc.

http://sg.geocities.com/shenlan.geo/messianic.html

Hope those help. For a more direct search you could use google.com and just plug in your area and "Messianic Jewish congregation."

Shalom
I am in the desert of spiritual Messanic Jewish congregations. It is a wast land....May the Lord bless this area where I live with more believers that we may share the bread and the wine of our Messiah.

Henaynei
16th April 2004, 04:40 PM
most places in the US the average congregant drives at least one hour to get to Messianic services, a great many must drive 2+ hours - outside the country it is *much* further.

visionary
16th April 2004, 04:55 PM
The closest one I found is eight hours away.......

ShirChadash
16th April 2004, 04:58 PM
I'm in the wasteland too, vision. We have a good one about 6+ hours away from us.

Blessed2003
16th April 2004, 04:59 PM
The closest one I found is 4 hours away. *sigh*

Henaynei
16th April 2004, 05:37 PM
there are several alternatives:
1) find a local gentile congregation http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/982v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) that is pro-Zionist and growing toward MJ understanding - join them, learn from them, teach them...... you'll both grow (if you have any christian radio stations they can be great resources (if they are not run by a specific denomination) for the who's and what's regarding the local congregations.
2) Find an online MJ synagoguehttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_5_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) - Yafet or another may know of one or more - join
3) start a home study group http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_123.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) of folks who are pro-Zionist and want to grow and learn
4) run a small ad in the religious section of your newspaper http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_128.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) for like minded persons - be prepared to screen responses rigorouslyhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_107.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) !
5) keep hanging out here!! [/url] [url="javascript:add_smilie("]http://www.bbfree.com/MessianicJudsm/html/emoticons/smilie_quatschen1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

rooster
17th April 2004, 12:22 AM
I admit, I have been ashamed to say the detestable things that go on in my own country, I (and if someone attacks me for this statement, so be it, it is TRUE) In agony I look around me, (I too have forsaken the way of the Holy One) I see the society I live in is completely abominable. No one calls for repentance, no one. They preach Grace by Faith, (a non acting faith) I don't discount the sacrafice of the Messiah, It is only through His Grace that I, or any, will enter in the presence of the Holy One, but what about OBEDIENCE. My soul is in agony, I fear for my self, my friends, my family, my neighbor's. No one seems to care. No one wants to repent. The TV is detestable, the sexual sins are detestable, our diet is detestable, our working to live, and living to work, so we can indulge ourselves in pleasures is detestable. (I do not imply that I am not guilty, I am, though I fight to forsake my own way) I don't know what to do. I am laughed at and ridiculed when I speak these things, I am insulted and told Grace honey, don't think you can earn heaven.. I DON'T...But I am sick of people saying we don't have responsibilities, WE DO. It might be like this everywhere I don't know. America is the nation that claims "In G-d we trust" well, we are an adulterous wife, and how long do we really think this will be allowed? I do beg for mercy, I have forsaken the ways of the Holy One, but I want to do everything He wants for me to do, I am quite confused half the time because I am led astray by the teachings of the false teachers. When will I learn, when will we learn. If sack cloth and ashes would change things I would find some. No, not one. ALL have forsaken His ways.
In repentance..
Brandy

Hear Hear!

ShirChadash
17th April 2004, 04:35 AM
there are several alternatives:
1) find a local gentile congregation http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/982v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) that is pro-Zionist and growing toward MJ understanding - join them, learn from them, teach them...... you'll both grow (if you have any christian radio stations they can be great resources (if they are not run by a specific denomination) for the who's and what's regarding the local congregations.
2) Find an online MJ synagoguehttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_5_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) - Yafet or another may know of one or more - join
3) start a home study group http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_123.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) of folks who are pro-Zionist and want to grow and learn
4) run a small ad in the religious section of your newspaper http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_128.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) for like minded persons - be prepared to screen responses rigorouslyhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_107.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) !
5) keep hanging out here!! http://www.bbfree.com/MessianicJudsm/html/emoticons/smilie_quatschen1.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:add_smilie()
Henny you are hands-down the emoticon queen! OH and I couldn't agree more with you post. :) It's important for us to remember we have alternatives and G-d's Spirit will lead and guide us even when we feel we are in a wasteland. *sigh* Z tries to remember this. Z may write it on the backs of her hands so she can see it when she types...

visionary
17th April 2004, 09:20 AM
Henny you are hands-down the emoticon queen! OH and I couldn't agree more with you post. :) It's important for us to remember we have alternatives and G-d's Spirit will lead and guide us even when we feel we are in a wasteland. *sigh* Z tries to remember this. Z may write it on the backs of her hands so she can see it when she types... ^_^ ;) :hug: Duhhhh!!! Thank you