Messinaic Community

[Wags]

We talked about this briefly over at the deli and I thought I'd provide the discussion its own thread.

Lets say you were going to start a messianic community. What would it look like?

Would you do like one congregation did on the east coast, obtain a building near a new subdivision and then encourage members to buy houses nearby. Thus they would be within walking distance of the shul.

Or would you do something more commmunal, maybe kibbutz style? Would you perfer something more isolated like Violin Island (http://www.privateislandsonline.com/costaricaisland.htm) down in Costa Rica? Or perhaps something in the US - maybe one of those company towns that are for sale lock stock and barrel.

How would go about choosing who to accept as members and how many members would you accept?

What rules/discipline system would you set up? Beit Din?

If you chose a communal system of living - how would you divide up the work and how would the community support itself? Would you have communal meals? Communal living, or individual houses?

Its okay to dream big as long as there is some practicality to your dreams ;) (i.e no building a kibbutz on the moon:D)

[visionary]

I envision a messianic community which is of the flavor of people that I find have joined this forum section. People who believe that study togather and pray and study to show themselves approved of God. I think that as individuals, that we need to keep it as family units, and for community gathering to be for fellowship and somekind of barter system. I would hope that we have gathered talented people who will fill in all gaps necessary to make the group as self sufficient as possible. Isolation will be necessary only as the One World Order enforces itself upon the rest of the world. I would like to know if there is any islands that are not under any country's rule?

[mjterry87]

What I would do is buy a lot of land in a state where not a lot of people live, let say like North Dakota, or Montana, and just build a city! You have to be a Messianic (Jew or Gentile) to live there. All the food would be kosher, no non kosher food would be allowed. Also, I would enforce Hebrew as the main language. Also, like in Israel, everything would stop on Shabbat. I guess it would be a compleatly Torah obervent place. Maybe it could even be its own county, and we could get a state senator or something like that. All in all I want it to be away from big cities, and sin. How does that sound?

[Katydid]

My husband has thought about this as well. Basically, he would buy up a few hundred acres, and we would all build the houses. He is an electrician type and we discussed windmills for electricity. We would all work fields and livestock and get together for lunches and dinners. Sabbath would be a day of rest, and we would follow Torah guidelines. Of course, we would need a little school house, and the right mix of people, someone practiced in nursing or medicine, a Rabbi, a teacher etc. I think the only guideline would be that they would have to live as a Messianic. No pork or shellfish allowed signs on their way in. LoL

[By Grace]

Would everyone have to be Messianic? What about those of us married to people who don't embrace the Messianic lifestyle? So long as they agree to abide by certain rules while in the community, would that be enough?

Also, I don't know if a schoolhouse would really be necessary, at least, not for the younger children. These children should be taught at home. And older children could be tutored, kind of like an apprentice. You could have a few specialists who help to prepare those children who plan on going to college, teaching them upper level academics. But not everyone needs to know calculus.

I think it would be important for us to not totally seclude ourselves. Doing that sets us up for the pitfalls that cults generally fall into: idolizing one or two leaders, developing a superiority complex, isolating the members to the point of losing all sense of accountability, and most of all, failing to reach out to others. Just b/c we start out as Messianics doesn't make us immune to these weaknesses.

Yes, we're called to be set apart and holy, but that doesn't mean we wash our hands of the rest of the world. We have a responsibility to shine as beacons in the darkness, not go hide in the woods somewhere. What good is a lighthouse if you put it in a hidden valley in Montana? ;)

OTOH, I think there's a lot to be said for providing a safe haven from the world. It would be wonderful to raise our children in a community that embraces Torah, rather than rejecting it. But the children also need to be taught how to stand by their beliefs even when it's difficult, when no one around you agrees with you. Their beliefs can be strengthened by the struggle.

How can we create a sanctuary, without crippling ourselves?

[Wags]

There aren't any places left in this world that are not under the control of one country or another. There have been few attempts to declare privately owned islands as seperate countries, but it never got very far.

Land use laws, even in less inhabited states often limit the number of dewellings that can be placed on a property.

Isolation may not be necessary - but would it be desirable. As for electric your most efficent and cost effective source for a private power supply is Hydro. Just need a fast running creek or river.

[Katydid]

As for electric your most efficent and cost effective source for a private power supply is Hydro. Just need a fast running creek or river.

See, this is why I leave the thinking to my husband.LOL

[Ahavah]

I've been noticing some Mis-spellings in this forum lately. Not that I'm an English Teacher, but Wags..you and my hubby need a few tips. Messiniaic is actually spelled Messianic. And Torah-Obsrevance is actually spelled...Torah Observance. Now if we have a messianic Community, We would surely need a special learning center for those who need help in spelling. Hahahaha...Just kidding. Blessings.

[Wags]

Would everyone have to be Messianic? What about those of us married to people who don't embrace the Messianic lifestyle? So long as they agree to abide by certain rules while in the community, would that be enough?

Also, I don't know if a schoolhouse would really be necessary, at least, not for the younger children. These children should be taught at home. And older children could be tutored, kind of like an apprentice. You could have a few specialists who help to prepare those children who plan on going to college, teaching them upper level academics. But not everyone needs to know calculus.

I think it would be important for us to not totally seclude ourselves. Doing that sets us up for the pitfalls that cults generally fall into: idolizing one or two leaders, developing a superiority complex, isolating the members to the point of losing all sense of accountability, and most of all, failing to reach out to others. Just b/c we start out as Messianics doesn't make us immune to these weaknesses.

Yes, we're called to be set apart and holy, but that doesn't mean we wash our hands of the rest of the world. We have a responsibility to shine as beacons in the darkness, not go hide in the woods somewhere. What good is a lighthouse if you put it in a hidden valley in Montana? ;)

OTOH, I think there's a lot to be said for providing a safe haven from the world. It would be wonderful to raise our children in a community that embraces Torah, rather than rejecting it. But the children also need to be taught how to stand by their beliefs even when it's difficult, when no one around you agrees with you. Their beliefs can be strengthened by the struggle.

How can we create a sanctuary, without crippling ourselves?

You bring up a lot of good points Jill. The biggest one I wrestle with is isolation. So many messianic are isolated today from other believers to strengthen and sharpen their faith, so it is easy to lean towards wanting to shut out the world. But it's also easier to walk in Torah in an isolated or closed community.

On the other hand if a group of messianic believers who are into a torah observant homesteading type of lifestyle wanted to get together and run a kibbutz is that really wrong? Yes living on an island would be isolating, but only if you never left it. In the case of Violin Island (or most of the ones in Canada I listed) you are in reality a short boat ride to the mainland. And from the capital in Costa Rica it is only about a 2 hr flight to Miami. So maybe it could be a place where those called to ministry could come for trianing in how to be Rabbi? Or a place for physical and spiritual R & R? There would be contact with the locals, and of course with the internet you are never really out of contact with anyone.

[Wags]

I've been noticing some Mis-spellings in this forum lately. Not that I'm an English Teacher, but Wags..you and my hubby need a few tips. Messiniaic is actually spelled Messianic. And Torah-Obsrevance is actually spelled...Torah Observance. Now if we have a messianic Community, We would surely need a special learning center for those who need help in spelling. Hahahaha...Just kidding. Blessings.

Is Shimshon dyslexic too? I see words as a jumble, so correcting spelling isn't easy for me. And my fingers tend to move slower than my brain.... makes for a bad combo. :D

[Katydid]

I like the idea of having the capability of being isolated. Not that I would want to be isolated, just that there will be a times when I want it.

[Wags]

See, this is why I leave the thinking to my husband.LOL

If I left it up to my hubby we would still be living in the suburbs of what I call a big city (he didn't think it was "all that big"). I just have a few dozen years of research into living off grid and the homesteading life style in general. I am slowly weaning him away city life.... we are now living on almost 5 acres outside a town of 13,000. Just the other day we drove through a town of about 1,200 and he said "this is our size town"! :thumbsup: I was so excited to hear that!!

[green suiter]

There aren't any places left in this world that are not under the control of one country or another. There have been few attempts to declare privately owned islands as seperate countries, but it never got very far.

Land use laws, even in less inhabited states often limit the number of dewellings that can be placed on a property.



Yes, But in the US you can start this and call it a club to distiguissed people or start it as a Church and rules change.

Isolation may not be necessary

I think Isolation has some good benifits to A Commune, hence no outside influence would be the big one. If the commune is as well rounded as Visionary would like then it wouldn't need Society, it would be it's own.

As for electric your most efficent and cost effective source for a private power supply is Hydro. Just need a fast running creek or river.

This still requires the same heart as a windmill to produce Electricity, and we could have a combination windmill hydro plant that would max. the power output, that way in the winter months when the creek or river freezes you still have the wind feeding it.

I would love to start one I think it would work well in the mid souther, or mid west states of the US, lots of open land. :)

[Katydid]

Can you tell that my husband really loves this idea?:D He talks about it all the time.

[Wags]

This still requires the same heart as a windmill to produce Electricity, and we could have a combination windmill hydro plant that would max. the power output, that way in the winter months when the creek or river freezes you still have the wind feeding it.

I would love to start one I think it would work well in the mid souther, or mid west states of the US, lots of open land. :)

Hmmm...cold weather, place with lots of wind... or tropical island... decisions decisions.... (btw - Costa Rica has been a democratic country for over 200 years, election day is actually a national holiday there!)

[green suiter]

I think it would be important for us to not totally seclude ourselves. Doing that sets us up for the pitfalls that cults generally fall into: idolizing one or two leaders, developing a superiority complex, isolating the members to the point of losing all sense of accountability, and most of all, failing to reach out to others. Just b/c we start out as Messianics doesn't make us immune to these weaknesses.



I think when we say Commune that were all get simular ideas from the movie Fiddler on The Roof kind of ideas not David Carresh Ideas. Just a thought.:D

[green suiter]

Hmmm...cold weather, place with lots of wind... or tropical island... decisions decisions.... (btw - Costa Rica has been a democratic country for over 200 years, election day is actually a national holiday there!)


yes, but we could have the feast as holidays in the commune and not election day.



What do you think election or the GOOD BOOK special days every year, how they are ment to be????


That is the real question.:cool:

[Tishri1]

My Aunt and Uncle have some property in Washington in a neighborhood that is sort of like communal living. Everyone owns their own small lot and builds their own homes. The community has a "BIGHOUSE" where there is a supersize kitchen, and once a month your family would have to cook dinner for the whole community. With everyone taking turns though, you wouldn't have to make dinner for the rest of the month. (unless you wanted to make your own dinner at home ). Every one goes there in the evening and gathers to eat or gets a plate of grub and heads back to their house to eat alone. No cars are allowed in the community, everyone parks outside and walks in. Kids have a better sence of freedom without worrying about strangers, cars ect. In the center of the community is a playground, pool, garden, and the BIGHOUSE which also has a big screen media room, table tennis, fooseball, and a fitnessclub. I would have loved to be there except these were all new ager types.

Tishri1

[Wags]

yes, but we could have the feast as holidays in the commune and not election day.



What do you think election or the GOOD BOOK special days every year, how they are ment to be????


That is the real question.:cool:


Oh I was using that to show, that unlike the countries around them, they have a rather stable form of government that they treasure probably more than we do ours. Costa Rica has the highest number of americans living outside of the US. They have no military so put their money into education and medicine - they have a higher literacy rate than the US! For the older folks - medicare covers most things down there. And the coffee is the best in the world IMHO! :D

[Wags]

My Aunt and Uncle have some property in Washington in a neighborhood that is sort of like communal living. Everyone owns their own small lot and builds their own homes. The community has a "BIGHOUSE" where there is a supersize kitchen, and once a month your family would have to cook dinner for the whole community. With everyone taking turns though, you wouldn't have to make dinner for the rest of the month. (unless you wanted to make your own dinner at home ). Every one goes there in the evening and gathers to eat or gets a plate of grub and heads back to their house to eat alone. No cars are allowed in the community, everyone parks outside and walks in. Kids have a better sence of freedom without worrying about strangers, cars ect. In the center of the community is a playground, pool, garden, and the BIGHOUSE which also has a big screen media room, table tennis, fooseball, and a fitnessclub. I would have loved to be there except these were all new ager types.

Tishri1

I remember reading about a place like that up in the Seattle area. The housese were all designed by one of my favorite architects. Simple, efficent homes. There is also a couple of communities like that in Florida.

[Wags]

My ideal community:

Since I lean towards a homesteading, self sufficient lifestyle, I think that I would like living in a community of others that enjoyed that lifestyle as well. I would opt for the tropical island (if I could figure out a way to afford it) or one of the many large Canadian islands simply because I love living on islands (I’ve done that before). I also think I would opt for individual houses although I’m still up in the air on communal meals. I like the idea, but it would depend on the size of the community. (Think summer camp where you stay in your own cabin but eat together as a group.) And since I’m a lacto-ovo veggie in my ideal community everyone else would be too. :cool:

The amount of land affects the size of the community and I don’t think 600+ acres could effectively support much more than 10-12 families, since its not all useable.

I think I would start with 3-5 solid core men who would interview potential families to see if they would be a good fit in the community. It goes without saying that torah submission would be important, as well as good building/farming/animal husbandry skills. These same men would probably make up the Beit Din who would set the rules for the community. Rules are very important in any group.

The biggest thing I’m not sure about is how the community could sustain itself. Depending on the location growing all of your own food would be feasible, but at some point in time you are going to need cold hard cash, (gotta pay for the satellite internet hook-up) so where would that come from? A messianic B&B? A product?

As for a physical set up – small individual family homes and a larger community/worship center. Plus of course various barns and store houses. And with three waterfalls the hydro power would be unlimited.

[Tishri1]

I remember reading about a place like that up in the Seattle area. The housese were all designed by one of my favorite architects. Simple, efficent homes. There is also a couple of communities like that in Florida.

Yes and I think their big in Canada as well. My Aunt and Uncle gave me a book on how to develop these communities but I can't remember the name. They exist and that should tell us something;)

See ya, Tishri

[Ahavah]

The amount of land affects the size of the community and I don’t think 600+ acres could effectively support much more than 10-12 families, since its not all useable.

I think I would start with 3-5 solid core men who would interview potential families to see if they would be a good fit in the community. It goes without saying that torah submission would be important, as well as good building/farming/animal husbandry skills. These same men would probably make up the Beit Din who would set the rules for the community. Rules are very important in any group.


As for a physical set up – small individual family homes and a larger community/worship center. Plus of course various barns and store houses. And with three waterfalls the hydro power would be unlimited.Wags...Just wondering....have you ever seen the movie...
"The Village"?

[Wags]

Never seen it....wasn't that a horror movie, or am I confusing it with something else?

[Ahavah]

Never seen it....wasn't that a horror movie, or am I confusing it with something else?Well...I suppose it was considered a Horror movie, but I saw it..and didn't think it was. It's not like I go out and get horror movies either. That movie just reminded me of what you all were talking about. The "Village" is about a group of people who escape the world by living in a Village that is Very secluded in the woods. They all dress like Amish people in a way, and they have an eldership of leaders that decides everything that goes on in the Village. They are all in Unity. They all grow their own food, supply the needs of other families if needed, and seem to get along great. There is one twist however..and that's the plot of the story..so I won't tell you it because it would ruin the ending. It's pretty interesting, but Anyway...I just thought of that movie when I was reading some of your posts.;)

[Katydid]

The "Village" is about a group of people who escape the world by living in a Village that is Very secluded in the woods. They all dress like Amish people in a way, and they have an eldership of leaders that decides everything that goes on in the Village




:D I think you gave away alot of the plot right there.:D



Never seen it....wasn't that a horror movie, or am I confusing it with something else?



Actually, though it's advertisements make it look like horror, I would say it is more of a suspense.

[Wags]

I hardly ever go to the movies - I think the last time was a couple of years ago... hardly ever rent them either.

So back to the building of the community. Anyone have any ideas on how to get it started?

How would you go about finding and paying for the land? Who would own it? Would you have all those involved pool their funds? If so, what happens if someone decides they don't like it and wants to leave.

How would you find other like minded persons to join you on this venture, and would you be willing to give up control once the community structure was in place?

Even if you opted to skip the communal living route, how would you go about convincing people to buy/build in a particular area. Would it be necessary to already have a vibratant congregation in place to attract them?

And what would people do for a living? If the community is located in a really rural area, then it would most likely need to be self supporting. Or it would have to be near enough a large city to provide employment opportunities - which would preclude those that enjoy rural living from wanting to be involved.

Of course if you all wanted to move to this little town that would be cool :D Lowes (Home Improvement Store) is going to be opening a huge distribution center here with family wage ($15+/hr to start) jobs in a couple of years. It is expected to add 15-17million annually to the economy of this little 13,000 pop. town. Construction is going to be starting in Sept and they expect to hire about 250-300 locals for the building phase. There is also a Target Distribution center (It covers the equivelant of 6 NFL football fields - Lowes is going to be even bigger) a dozen miles down the road, so there is another large, stable employer in the area. It's all set in the midst of grass and sheep farms. This is the grass seed producing capital of the world!

[visionary]

I hardly ever go to the movies - I think the last time was a couple of years ago... hardly ever rent them either.

So back to the building of the community. Anyone have any ideas on how to get it started?

How would you go about finding and paying for the land? Who would own it? Would you have all those involved pool their funds? If so, what happens if someone decides they don't like it and wants to leave.

How would you find other like minded persons to join you on this venture, and would you be willing to give up control once the community structure was in place?

Even if you opted to skip the communal living route, how would you go about convincing people to buy/build in a particular area. Would it be necessary to already have a vibratant congregation in place to attract them?

And what would people do for a living? If the community is located in a really rural area, then it would most likely need to be self supporting. Or it would have to be near enough a large city to provide employment opportunities - which would preclude those that enjoy rural living from wanting to be involved.

Of course if you all wanted to move to this little town that would be cool :D Lowes (Home Improvement Store) is going to be opening a huge distribution center here with family wage ($15+/hr to start) jobs in a couple of years. It is expected to add 15-17million annually to the economy of this little 13,000 pop. town. Construction is going to be starting in Sept and they expect to hire about 250-300 locals for the building phase. There is also a Target Distribution center (It covers the equivelant of 6 NFL football fields - Lowes is going to be even bigger) a dozen miles down the road, so there is another large, stable employer in the area. It's all set in the midst of grass and sheep farms. This is the grass seed producing capital of the world! Now you know both of those businesses would want you to work on the shabbat.

I think it would be cool if we get into the media business.... producing movies, TV programs, music, books, magazines, and the like... where all the production does not have to interferr with Holy Days and Shabbat. This could be the outreach ministry.

There would be one branch of the group, who dedicate themselves to the food ministry. They would produce quality, natural, healthy food, that is kosher and safe for consumption. There could be a resort dedicated to the alternative health care programs. This could be a place for people to come for natural healings, done in resort style presentation and marketing, it could be a great source of revenue, employment, and ministry.

Then there are the tradesman including engineers, contractors, and such that would make up the backbone of the community. Educators with schools, and all the other amenities that we all love, so that we can live in the harmony and community environment that promotes God's laws. Not in the legalistic sense, but in the spirit of truth.

For I see nothing wrong in having the entire enterprise consisting of thousands upon thousands of believers, and a wide variety of synagogues to meet their needs at the level of faith that the people are at. So let's just take over a small country island and give it the messianic flavor.

[Wags]

Not all shifts require work on Shabbat... and modeim can be covered with vacation time...

[Ahavah]

Of course if you all wanted to move to this little town that would be cool :D Lowes (Home Improvement Store) is going to be opening a huge distribution center here with family wage ($15+/hr to start) jobs in a couple of years. It is expected to add 15-17million annually to the economy of this little 13,000 pop. town. Construction is going to be starting in Sept and they expect to hire about 250-300 locals for the building phase. There is also a Target Distribution center (It covers the equivelant of 6 NFL football fields - Lowes is going to be even bigger) a dozen miles down the road, so there is another large, stable employer in the area. It's all set in the midst of grass and sheep farms. This is the grass seed producing capital of the world! This idea doesn't seem to be going in the "self sufficent" direction. I wouldn't want to work for the "beast system" again.:sick:

[Beth-el girl]

I envision a messianic community which is of the flavor of people that I find have joined this forum section. People who believe that study togather and pray and study to show themselves approved of God. I think that as individuals, that we need to keep it as family units, and for community gathering to be for fellowship and somekind of barter system. I would hope that we have gathered talented people who will fill in all gaps necessary to make the group as self sufficient as possible. Isolation will be necessary only as the One World Order enforces itself upon the rest of the world. I would like to know if there is any islands that are not under any country's rule?
My Husband wants us to move to the Galapagos. I said Christ wants us to be the light of the world he said we could be the light of the Galapagos.

[Wags]

This idea doesn't seem to be going in the "self sufficent" direction. I wouldn't want to work for the "beast system" again.:sick:

Over the years I've come across a few messianics that are truely interested in a self sufficent homesteading type lifestyle, but most aren't really ready to give up modern conveinces, like all night grocery stores, quick EMS/Fire response, hospitals etc. Plus the physical labor aspect of homesteading is a turn off to many. And some are just flat scared by the the sounds of nature.

[Tishri1]

Communities Directory: A Guide to Intentional Communities and Cooperative Living (Communities Directory)


(http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0960271481/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-4519779-2251001#reader-link)





New edition of a guide that provides A-Z listings of more than 700 "intentional" communities such as ashrams, kibbutzim, cohousing groups, ecovillages, student co-ops, artists collectives, and more around the world.

[Wags]

Communities Directory: A Guide to Intentional Communities and Cooperative Living (Communities Directory)

New edition of a guide that provides A-Z listings of more than 700 "intentional" communities such as ashrams, kibbutzim, cohousing groups, ecovillages, student co-ops, artists collectives, and more around the world.

I had a feeling that was the book :)

[visionary]

My Husband wants us to move to the Galapagos. I said Christ wants us to be the light of the world he said we could be the light of the Galapagos.why Galapagos?

[P_G]

I think it would look very OOM or Amish to me
It is what New Zion was supposed to be like a few hundred years ago but some things got really messed up along the way.

I can tell you for sure that on Shabbat there would be NO electricity going to homes. It would be shut off. And it would be illegal to have a gasoline motor running also. (building of fires) (Actually Miss Bonnie and I may soon have a horse and buggy for this very reason and also cause she can ride the horse since she cant drive no more)

Worship would be centric to the life style it would be about what life was about. A precurser to the day of the return of the Moshiach.

Oh and no pork parts in the market nor shellfish bits! (Why do they put the bacon right next to the kosher hot dogs?)

And a dress code! Yes Black and white for men, long, flowing and un-revieling for wommen.

I think that would be a good start


PG

[Katydid]

Yes Black and white for men, long, flowing and un-revieling for wommen.





Can I ask, Why the lack of colors? Colors are important to me.

[Ahavah]

Over the years I've come across a few messianics that are truely interested in a self sufficent homesteading type lifestyle, but most aren't really ready to give up modern conveinces, like all night grocery stores, quick EMS/Fire response, hospitals etc. Plus the physical labor aspect of homesteading is a turn off to many. And some are just flat scared by the the sounds of nature.I totally understand wags...It's kind of sad however, that some people who want to escape the world, yet still enjoy the things that the world has to offer.
Kind of reminds me of Egypt and the Israelites. I'd probbably be the one asking for my toilet paper instead of a leaf though. hahaha:D

[Ahavah]

Can I ask, Why the lack of colors? Colors are important to me.Yeah..I like colors too. Hey Katydid...we could just live in a color camp.:D

[plum]

may I be completely honest?
I have zero interest in living in a buggy-driving, no electricity, farming-only, secluded community. OR one without color! lol.

I think it would be cool if we get into the media business.... producing movies, TV programs, music, books, magazines, and the like... where all the production does not have to interferr with Holy Days and Shabbat. This could be the outreach ministry.Now THAT'S my kinda work. My field is film, video, and television. Where would I even TRY to fit in if the community were on some remote farm land where we were cut off from the entire world? I understand the attraction of running from the evils in the world, but just as much evil can come from being in a big city as can come from being isolated, imho... just perhaps different kinds.

Three things:
1)I grew up in a community of believers
2)My passion (perhaps calling) is community-based.
3)I wish my church would act on its ideas about community living.

1) I doubt any of you have heard about a community called "The Word of God" community that is/was started in Ann Arbor, Michigan in the early 1970s. This was an ecumenical community of believers that included many Roman Catholics (my mother being one), protestants of all flavours (my father being one), and also Messianic Jews ( just learned about this part!). The community was based on the Jerusalem church (Acts 2, etc)... meeting together, breaking bread together, living together, taking care of each other's needs, etc. WONDERFUL vision. My parents lived as singles in households kind of like communes. when they were married, they and other married couples in the Word of God decided to build a neighborhood together. They bought property right in town and literally built a neighborhood filled with believers who desired to celebrate unity in Yeshua and come into a deep community with each other. Did I say I LOVED this community? hehehe.
I grew up in the 80s in the Word of God. all of my current closest friends are friends from that neighborhood. It was truly an amazing experience to see what I think of as Scripture lived out. There were rules (more obvious in the households and in the leadership. I was too young to know any of them) and organization...
The reason the WOG broke up, I think, was a huge rift caused by a leadership struggle. Not sure about the details. It hurt too many people and nobody wants to talk about it. hmm. :) But I'm nosy. I wanna find out!

(sorry this is so long! I didn't want to make it 3 posts)

2) I believe that as believers we are ALL called to ministry (that means being salt and light no matter where we are, what we do, or who we're with). It doesn't mean that we have to go and all be pastors or missionaries or whathaveyou. anyway, I have felt very strongly for some time that G-d has a call on my life to be a part of a deep, encompassing, intimate community like that of the Jerusalem church. It's my desire to enable this, encourage this, and form this. I'm not sure what else to say except when my brothers and sisters (you all!) talk about living in community together... my heart races and I feel the pull of the Ruach HaKodesh on my life. I'm not sure who G-d wants to use me yet, but it's going to happen!


3)I attend the largest non-denom church in Michigan (Mars Hill Bible Church in Grandville, MI). I love it. It's too big, yes. But I love it. I love that the pastor and the leadership are passionate about Yeshua and not denying who he was, what he believed, and what he taught. I love that they are beginning to embrace the truth that Torah remains forever! I pray that G-d reveals all of this to the entire congregation.
And I love that they encourage small, intimate house church communities within the large congregation of thousands. Remember, that's my passion!
Anyway, in one sermon, Rob Bell (pastor) said that there was a huge empty apartment building in downtown Grand Rapids. He said "what if Mars Hill bought the building, fixed it up, and we could live there and show the world what it looks like to be a community living in faith in the light of Christ. We would not push the world away, but rather shine our light, G-d's light, onto it... How radically do you think that would change Grand Rapids as an entire city?!"

this, in long and short, is what I want. I want to use my gifts to meet the world's needs while living and ministering in the body of Yeshua.

why can't we do this?

[P_G]

I didn't say no color for the wommen
just no reveiling clothing

and the reason no electricty on the Shabbat? Do you know how many people will come on this bulletin board and rail about keeping the shabbat and then come on and post on a Saturday?
And as for TV? Blech! What a wasteland.
I watch very very little TV because there is just nothing but unG-dly junk there

Anyway I doubt it shall occur but boy an agrarian life sure sounds good to me!

PG

[visionary]

I visited a couple that are living on their own, on a old logging road behind Glacier National Park. They have built their own double A frame home that would be worth $250,000 easy if it was in the city. They used a lumberjack's saw mill, if anyone knows what that it... it is a chain saw addition, that turns the chainsaw into a portable saw mill. They build two green houses, one they call the hot house as it grows food year round... and the other green house is huge... 40x40x80 for their entire orchard and other plants that need that cold time...They have a stream that comes down the mountain and furnishes them with their own generation of electricity needs. This same stream also runs through the coils of their refridgerator to keep their food cold. They have copper coils around their fireplace chimmney which gives them continuous hot water. They have been able to earn a little for those things that they have to buy like food stock they can not grow, supplies like toilet paper and such, and then there is gas and taxes. They earn a living with their little chainsaw mill to generate the funds they need...and they live on a total of $3,000 a year. By the way, did I tell you that they live in style... because they have things like a solarium, a moutain view that is outstanding, and good neighbours of people who are like minded.

[Wags]

I didn't say no color for the wommen
just no reveiling clothing

and the reason no electricty on the Shabbat? Do you know how many people will come on this bulletin board and rail about keeping the shabbat and then come on and post on a Saturday?
And as for TV? Blech! What a wasteland.
I watch very very little TV because there is just nothing but unG-dly junk there

Anyway I doubt it shall occur but boy an agrarian life sure sounds good to me!

PG

Not everyone considers electricity or driving to to be a bad thing on Shabbat. And since there is no direct torah command to prohibit it - it is up for debate. Although there is one that says your animals should also rest on Shabbat, so you will have to skip the buggy ride.

So in your community the women could wear colors as long as they were modestly dressed, but the men have to be in black & white. Why are the men not allowed to wear colors? Where in Torah do you find that color is not permitted? Or is that just your personal preferance?

[visionary]

To resolve issues... we could have a running forum, where decisions are discussed, and scriptures are brought forth... and the two laws are understood to be from where all the laws and prophets must hang from...If it isn't showing love for God or showing love for the neighbor there must be something wrong with it...

If this is the policy of the community... then harmony can be found in the "love" laws that guide each and every discision.