I start RCIA on Thursday

[aReformedPatriot]

I'm going to RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) on thursday night. It is the Roman Catholic conversion class. No I am not converting ;), I am well grounded in my doctrine. I am gonna go to expand my knowledge of catholicism. Do you think they would throw me out for preaching justification by faith alone?? :P j/k...

Any of you guys ever been to one of these?

[Gold Dragon]

I'm going to RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) on thursday night. It is the Roman Catholic conversion class. No I am not converting ;), I am well grounded in my doctrine. I am gonna go to expand my knowledge of catholicism. Do you think they would throw me out for preaching justification by faith alone?? :P j/k...

Any of you guys ever been to one of these?

Never been to one but it sounds like an interesting experience. Let us know how it goes and let's hope no punches are thrown. ;)

I've been talking to a friend of mine who has been taking Catechesis classes regularly and she has been keeping me up to date on the topics they discuss. From that, we've had some excellent thought provoking discussions that have helped both of us dig a little deeper into the scriptures, especially on issues we disagree on like the Eucharist.

[aReformedPatriot]

Never been to one but it sounds like an interesting experience. Let us know how it goes and let's hope no punches are thrown. ;)

Haha :amen: though it would make for an interesting story.

I've been talking to a friend of mine who has been taking Catechesis classes regularly and she has been keeping me up to date on the topics they discuss. From that, we've had some excellent thought provoking discussions that have helped both of us dig a little deeper into the scriptures, especially on issues we disagree on like the Eucharist.

Yea, the Priest emailed me and said that this week they begin a lecture on the Eucharist. It should be very interesting and I was thinking about walking up to Mass tonight as it is a beautiful day and I havent observed one in a while.

Pray that all goes well, that perhaps some edifying discussion takes place bewteen me and a few Chatechism students. :)

[mesue]

Colosians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

I quote this verse because we see things very differently, and I pray it becomes a learning experience for you. And that it doesn't become a source of frustration for you.
I was raised Roman Catholic, so I have not attended RCIA. I still have the Catechism of the Catholic Church which explains Roman doctrine. I go to Mass when there's a wedding or funeral. I get looked upon like I have the scarlet letter "B" on my shirt every time I don't go up for communion. This hurts me that I am not accepted for loving my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as they rule I should. I do still kneel and pray during communion, I just abstain from partaking in the sacrament. Because, I can pray anywhere to Jesus.
Guard your heart. Keep it soft towards the Lord.
Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Matthew 12:34 ... for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh (B).

[aReformedPatriot]

Colosians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

I quote this verse because we see things very differently, and I pray it becomes a learning experience for you. And that it doesn't become a source of frustration for you.
I was raised Roman Catholic, so I have not attended RCIA. I still have the Catechism of the Catholic Church which explains Roman doctrine. I go to Mass when there's a wedding or funeral. I get looked upon like I have the scarlet letter "B" on my shirt every time I don't go up for communion. This hurts me that I am not accepted for loving my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as they rule I should. I do still kneel and pray during communion, I just abstain from partaking in the sacrament. Because, I can pray anywhere to Jesus.
Guard your heart. Keep it soft towards the Lord.
Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Matthew 12:34 ... for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh (B).

:amen:

I went to Mass tonight, and it was really fascinating. I enjoyed the hymns that we sang, I hope to find them for free online somewheres. I think they call their sermons "homilies" and the sermon was interesting. His base text was the woman at the well. Fr. David, he kinda went off on a tangent I thought that didnt deal with the text but then he brought it together. It was ultimatly about justice.

He connected living water with the Eucharist, "Can you feel that we need the Eucharist to have living water?!" which kinda jaded it for me for obvious reasons.

I met him after service and told him I was coming to RCIA, very nice man, nice people. I enjoyed it and am going to try and go next saturday.

[ZiSunka]

I'm going to RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) on thursday night. It is the Roman Catholic conversion class. No I am not converting ;), I am well grounded in my doctrine. I am gonna go to expand my knowledge of catholicism. Do you think they would throw me out for preaching justification by faith alone?? :P j/k...

Any of you guys ever been to one of these?

Gosh, I got thrown out for saying that I didn't believe in the eternal virginity of Mary, I never even got to justification by faith. Well, I didn't get thrown out, but when they were passing out materials for the next class, I wasn't given any, not even when I ask for it. :(

Anyway, be careful. Some of those doctrines can be seductive. In many ways, it's much easier to accept justification through works than it is to cultivate a relationship with Jesus.

[SumTinWong]

Do what ya got to do there guy. I don't have any advice for ya except for enjoy the experience, and go where it leads you.

[SumTinWong]

I am gonna go to expand my knowledge of catholicism.
Just out of curiosity and you can tell me to mind my own, but why? There are such things as books that can give you an idea of what Catholics believe, so why go through this class? Is it for school or what? Just curious.

Any of you guys ever been to one of these?
Nah, I dont have any spare time to devote to exploring curiosities about other faiths. If I did though I would go to an Orthodox class rather than and RCIA class.

[Cright]

I'm going to RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) on thursday night. It is the Roman Catholic conversion class. No I am not converting ;), I am well grounded in my doctrine. I am gonna go to expand my knowledge of catholicism. Do you think they would throw me out for preaching justification by faith alone?? :P j/k...

Any of you guys ever been to one of these?

My sister was involved in the RCIA for a couple years a few years back. Around the time I was teaching catechism classes. Having been Catholic, I have one frustration with the non-catholics... it is this:

When I hear someone saying "I perfer my church to the Catholic one because they do 'this' or 'that' wrong". And they are obviously talking about something they know nothing about, because the "this or that" they are mentioning is NOT something Catholics do.

ie. people saying that Catholics worship the saints
or saying Catholics think all non-Catholics are going to hell ect..

for me coming out of Catholisism that was the worst witness I could hear. There were a couple guys that said to me "I'm not sure why it's hard for you to leave your church because I'm not Catholic and don't know what they teach. If you have any questions about what I believe I'll show you in the bible why I believe what I do and maybe that can help you in some sort of way". Those ended up being my best witnesses to look toward. The ones that didn't insult my beliefs to begin with.

I think that it's good for someone who is going to witness to a Catholic to either claim not to know what they believe to witness to them OR go find out from the Catholics themselves (RCIA would be a good source) to help out. Although I think the former is the better tool IMO.

God Bless,
Carina

[ZiSunka]

Unfortunately, Carina, there is a big difference between what RCIA and catechism teach and how catholicism is actually practiced. I know many people who have had their babies devoted to mary, either along with baptism or in lieu of baptism. I know a woman, who says she doesn't care at all about Jesus because she is totally devoted to mary. She has said this in the presence of her priest and he has done nothing to correct her or tell the rest of the group that this was wrong. There are catholic prayers that ask Mary for salvation. There are prayer recognizing mary as the giver of all good things. No matter how you look at it, this is worship.

[aReformedPatriot]

Just out of curiosity and you can tell me to mind my own, but why? There are such things as books that can give you an idea of what Catholics believe, so why go through this class? Is it for school or what? Just curious.

I want to write my own book one day and I want my claims about catholic doctrine to be correct. It's the beggining of research for me. I already have the basics grasped, I just want to hear it from the horses mouth and perhaps learn something I havent thought of.



Nah, I dont have any spare time to devote to exploring curiosities about other faiths. If I did though I would go to an Orthodox class rather than and RCIA class.

Roman Catholic doctrine interests me more than Orthodox, even though they are similar.

[Cright]

Unfortunately, Carina, there is a big difference between what RCIA and catechism teach and how catholicism is actually practiced. I know many people who have had their babies devoted to mary, either along with baptism or in lieu of baptism. I know a woman, who says she doesn't care at all about Jesus because she is totally devoted to mary. She has said this in the presence of her priest and he has done nothing to correct her or tell the rest of the group that this was wrong. There are catholic prayers that ask Mary for salvation. There are prayer recognizing mary as the giver of all good things. No matter how you look at it, this is worship.

Your right lambslove, there are MANY people who call themselves Catholic who don't pratice Catholism, or do so incorrectly (priests included). Those are the people who bothered me even when I was Catholic. I didn't like the 'protestants' lumping me into the group of people who called themselves "Catholic" and worshiped Mary or the saints, because as a Catholic, I didn't, nor did anyone I taught, or learned from. I don't even to this day know anyone that would admit to putting Mary before Jesus (Catholic or not, not to say they don't exist). That is totally not the majority. My problem with this is that there are MANY docterines that are unbiblical or extra biblical that the Catholics teach, why not bring those to light (from the ccc) instead of pick on the minority of false teachings SOME Catholic's believe that's not in the ccc?

Carina

[SumTinWong]

Read The Glories of Mary: An Explanation of the Salve Regina by Alphonsus de Liguori, for a reason or two of why I do not wish to go near the Catholic church:
"St. Athanasius says: "If the Son is a King, then the Mother who bore Him should be looked upon as a queen and sovereign."

St. Bernardine of Siena adds: "No sooner had Mary consented to be Mother of the Eternal Word than she merited by His consent to have dominion over the whole world and over every creature."

St. Arnold the Abbot declares further: "Since the flesh of Mary was no different from that of Jesus, how can we deny to the Mother the same royal dignity we find in the Son? . . . So I would consider the glory of the Son not as something shared with His Mother, but as her glory too."

If Jesus is the King of the universe, then Mary is its Queen. And as Queen, she possesses by right the whole Kingdom of her Son."

Really? Hmmm....

"St. Bernardine of Siena argues this way: There are just as many creatures serving Mary as there are serving God. For since Angels and human beings, all things in Heaven and earth, are under God's dominion, so they are at the same time under Mary's dominion.

The Abbot Guerricus turns to the Mother of God and exclaims: "O Mary, dispose with confidence of your Son's riches! Go on acting boldly as Queen, Mother, and Spouse of the King, for you have dominion and power over all creation!"

So Mary is a Queen. And, for our consolation, we ought to remember that she is a most tender and kind Queen, eager to help us in our miseries. So much so that the Church wants us to call her in this prayer a Queen of Mercy. Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!"

[SumTinWong]

I want to write my own book one day and I want my claims about catholic doctrine to be correct. It's the beggining of research for me. I already have the basics grasped, I just want to hear it from the horses mouth and perhaps learn something I havent thought of.
That is an awesome reason !!! I wish more people who wrote books on the subject would do that!

Roman Catholic doctrine interests me more than Orthodox, even though they are similar.
Not really, but I will leave that up to your research to find out ;)

[Cright]

Read The Glories of Mary: An Explanation of the Salve Regina by Alphonsus de Liguori, for a reason or two of why I do not wish to go near the Catholic church:
"St. Athanasius says: "If the Son is a King, then the Mother who bore Him should be looked upon as a queen and sovereign."

St. Bernardine of Siena adds: "No sooner had Mary consented to be Mother of the Eternal Word than she merited by His consent to have dominion over the whole world and over every creature."

St. Arnold the Abbot declares further: "Since the flesh of Mary was no different from that of Jesus, how can we deny to the Mother the same royal dignity we find in the Son? . . . So I would consider the glory of the Son not as something shared with His Mother, but as her glory too."

If Jesus is the King of the universe, then Mary is its Queen. And as Queen, she possesses by right the whole Kingdom of her Son."

Really? Hmmm....

"St. Bernardine of Siena argues this way: There are just as many creatures serving Mary as there are serving God. For since Angels and human beings, all things in Heaven and earth, are under God's dominion, so they are at the same time under Mary's dominion.

The Abbot Guerricus turns to the Mother of God and exclaims: "O Mary, dispose with confidence of your Son's riches! Go on acting boldly as Queen, Mother, and Spouse of the King, for you have dominion and power over all creation!"

So Mary is a Queen. And, for our consolation, we ought to remember that she is a most tender and kind Queen, eager to help us in our miseries. So much so that the Church wants us to call her in this prayer a Queen of Mercy. Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!"

to make the point I was trying to make earlier I can easily use this...

Saints are not infalliable (not even to Catholics) so they can make mistakes. They can be wrong.. if you want to prove (the catholic) me wrong. You'd have to show me where it said something like this from the CCC or from a council.

[Iollain]

Read The Glories of Mary: An Explanation of the Salve Regina by Alphonsus de Liguori, for a reason or two of why I do not wish to go near the Catholic church:
"St. Athanasius says: "If the Son is a King, then the Mother who bore Him should be looked upon as a queen and sovereign."

St. Bernardine of Siena adds: "No sooner had Mary consented to be Mother of the Eternal Word than she merited by His consent to have dominion over the whole world and over every creature."

St. Arnold the Abbot declares further: "Since the flesh of Mary was no different from that of Jesus, how can we deny to the Mother the same royal dignity we find in the Son? . . . So I would consider the glory of the Son not as something shared with His Mother, but as her glory too."

If Jesus is the King of the universe, then Mary is its Queen. And as Queen, she possesses by right the whole Kingdom of her Son."

Really? Hmmm....

"St. Bernardine of Siena argues this way: There are just as many creatures serving Mary as there are serving God. For since Angels and human beings, all things in Heaven and earth, are under God's dominion, so they are at the same time under Mary's dominion.

The Abbot Guerricus turns to the Mother of God and exclaims: "O Mary, dispose with confidence of your Son's riches! Go on acting boldly as Queen, Mother, and Spouse of the King, for you have dominion and power over all creation!"

So Mary is a Queen. And, for our consolation, we ought to remember that she is a most tender and kind Queen, eager to help us in our miseries. So much so that the Church wants us to call her in this prayer a Queen of Mercy. Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!"

Yeah that is scary business, worshipping the creation right along with God, imo.

[SumTinWong]

to make the point I was trying to make earlier I can easily use this...

Saints are not infalliable (not even to Catholics) so they can make mistakes. They can be wrong.. if you want to prove (the catholic) me wrong. You'd have to show me where it said something like this from the CCC or from a council.
I understand where you are coming from, I really do.

As a saint I can agree that we are not perfect, but I do expect my fellow saints to check what I say against the word of God (not the ccc or councils) and correct me when I am wrong. These folks were clearly wrong and they were not asked to recant their statements by the church. If the church does not say no to these ideas, they might as well say yes to them. Has the church ever come out and condemned the Glories of Mary for the errors which it contains? No? In fact they made this guy a saint.

[Gold Dragon]

There are some pretty whacked out baptists with scary teachings too, even some that have a pretty large following. Fortunately they are not supported by a majority of baptists just like the scary teachings of some Catholics are not supported by the councils and Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[SumTinWong]

Yeah that is scary business, worshipping the creation right along with God, imo.
But as she said not everyone agrees with this, nor do they think of Mary this way. Why I stay away is because this kind of work was never tossed aside by the church, instead the guy is now a Saint.

[SumTinWong]

There are some pretty whacked out baptists with scary teachings too, even some that have a pretty large following. Fortunately they are not supported by a majority of baptists just like the scary teachings of some Catholics are not supported by the councils and Catechism of the Catholic Church.
And these whacked out theories are condemned by us, and we seperate ourselves from these doctrines and these people. There is a difference.

[Cright]

But as she said not everyone agrees with this, nor do they think of Mary this way. Why I stay away is because this kind of work was never tossed aside by the church, instead the guy is now a Saint.



And these whacked out theories are condemned by us, and we seperate ourselves from these doctrines and these people. There is a difference.


You are exactly right Uncle Bud! :preach: :thumbsup: :clap:

To me this is a good witnissing tool too... when you can show all of the false things that people declared saints said, and it's not refuted by the CCC as they SHOULD do.. then they are letting false doctrins run rampant in some of the communities, instead of protecting their flock.

This is another good thing to point out when witnissing... just showing some dead Catholic guy said something wrong isn't enough.. but when you point out that no one corrected it, that does help!!

:hug: nice point!

Carina

[SumTinWong]

Love ya sister,

hey off topic, you are one day closer to being married... yee haaa!

[Paul S]

Yeah that is scary business, worshipping the creation right along with God, imo.

Just wondering... where in there did it say anything about worshipping Mary?

To Baptists, is service always worship?

[SumTinWong]

Just wondering... where in there did it say anything about worshipping Mary?
She got the impression from reading that hence the IMO.

To Baptists, is service always worship?
Once again she said IMO

[aReformedPatriot]

Just wondering... where in there did it say anything about worshipping Mary?

:confused:

To Baptists, is service always worship?

Yes, I believe it is. We gather in the name of Christ, sing his praises, pray to him, and here a message from his word, plus we fellowship. All forms of worship.

Unless you are speaking of "servanthood" in which case this would also be true. God calls us to serve our brothers, and Him. In this He is exalted, so it is worship.

[Iollain]

Just wondering... where in there did it say anything about worshipping Mary?

To Baptists, is service always worship?

IMO, that 'veneration' thing with Mary is not a good idea. Have you ever read some of the things the people who were 'sainted' by the RCC wrote about Mary? I have, and it is not of God, imo.

[Iollain]

There are some pretty whacked out baptists with scary teachings too, even some that have a pretty large following. Fortunately they are not supported by a majority of baptists just like the scary teachings of some Catholics are not supported by the councils and Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Easy to say, but you can read for yourself what the people they have 'Sainted' have to say. If they check these people out so carefully, how could they miss it so often?

[Filia Mariae]

Lord's Envoy,

I hope you will find your study of the Faith to be edifying.

Those who would like to know what Catholics actually believe are most welcome to ask in OBOB anytime.

Pax Christi,
Carly

[Filia Mariae]

.

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Staff Review

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This thread is being re-opened as the discussion is an important one.

Forum members after discussions with our brethern in OBOB we wanted to remind everyone that Catholics are indeed a Christian denomonation. They do not dedicate babies but rather baptize them in the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit.

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[Iollain]

If it causes PG and RedthatsMe that much grief, i'm not posting in this thread again

[SumTinWong]

nevermind... not worth it.

[ZiSunka]

I wish we could ask them questions and discuss the answers without them jumping all over us and telling us that their way is the only right way. :sigh:

As long as we are not allowed to discuss their beliefs, we will never understand them. :(

[Gold Dragon]

I wish we could ask them questions and discuss the answers without them jumping all over us and telling us that their way is the only right way. :sigh:

As long as we are not allowed to discuss their beliefs, we will never understand them. :(

I've never had a problem asking questions of Catholics and discussing things with them civilly.

[ZiSunka]

I've never had a problem asking questions of Catholics and discussing things with them civilly.

Good for you.

They are different with people who have never been catholic than they are with people who left the catholic church. They think there is a chance of converting you, but they realize there is little chance of reconverting me.

Also, you might always just accept their opinions and personal beliefs as being the doctrine of catholicism, but I always want them to show me where in their doctrine such and such is said, and they don't always know or don't like being challenged to compare their personal beliefs against the catechism or other writings, so they get angry. I've even gotten a threatening email, from a woman who posted in the old protestant forum. She had posted wondering if protestants carry pictures of their deceased loved ones in their wallets, and when several people answered that they do, she pounced and said that icons of the deceased saints are the same thing and that we ought not criticize. When I posted that icons are not photos of deceased saints, they are caricatures of people based on traditional characteristics and not actual likenesses, she PMed me and emailed me that she hated me and called me names (twit, I think, was one of them). Another one was a post a catholic made here saying that St Bernadette's body was perfectly preserved and showed no signs of deteriorating and that proved that she was a saint, it turned out that the "perfectly preserved body" was really a wax likeness applied over her badly deteriorated body. I called that fraud (which it is) and got half a dozen hate PMs.

The truth is, if you just accept everything they say as being gospel and don't compare it to the revealed truth of the Bible (or other truths, like the fact that Bernadette is not supernaturally preserved), then there are no problems, but as soon as you question what they say, they start calling it catholic bashing.

[Filia Mariae]

Lamb'sLove-

Consider this an open invitation to ask me about Catholic beliefs and discuss them with me, challenge me, whatever, any time, whether on a board or through PM.

Pax Christi,
Carly

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