Alcohol

[TheBear]

Is the consumption of alcoholic beverages a sin?

John

[Minton Miller]

Not to be wishy washy, but the answer is... it depends.

The short answer is no, it is not a sin. Only a select few such the nazerites were required to abstain totally from alcohol

on the other hand, some feel very strongly that they should not drink. If one feels that way and compramises, it would be a sin.

Paul also talks at great length about not causing another to stumble. If you drink (lest say just occasionally) and never get drunk, and another person sees you drinking and then dertermines it is ok to drink (but that person can't handle it), you have created a real problem.

I will go on record as saying that I do like an occasional beer. I probably buy a couple of six packs a year. Most of my christian friends do not drink so I never drink around them It is not that they don't know I like beer, it is just that it would bother them and otherwise tempt them to do something against their principles.

Well... that should be as clear as buttermilk.

Minton
http://www.mintonmiller.org

[solo66 man]

Remember Paul prescribing wine for Timothy's stomach problem?
It is ok to drink, but not to get drunk.

[Droobie]

When we drink, we get drunk
When we get drunk, we go to sleep
When we go to sleep we do no sin
When we do no sin, we go to heaven
So let's all drink, and go to heaven

Anonymous


Seeing that our Saviour Himself drank wine, and it is known that He was sinless... Then I would conclude it alright to consume alcohol. As Solo66 says... be master of the drink, not the drink master over you...

[Apologist]

Originally posted by solo66 man
Remember Paul prescribing wine for Timothy's stomach problem?
It is ok to drink, but not to get drunk.

That is true solo66man, but Paul is prescribing it to Timothy for medicinal purposes, not social drinking. :)
I heard John MacArthur preach a series on this subject and it was very compelling in presenting that Christians shouldn't drink at all.
Maybe he has a transcript at his web site. I'll look and see.

God Bless

[snw7]

Good point Apologist.

I would like to add the following bits of principles for Christian living.

1. We shouldn't do anything that would cause our brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble

2. We still need to be a light for all men to see and salt to the world - people who are searching need to see that there is something different about our lives that sets us apart from them.

3. As Christian we are to be in control of our actions at all times - so we should not take things to there extremes when those extremes take us outside of how God expects us to act.

4. Our body is God's Holy Temple - it's not ours to do with as we wish.

Just for my own personal opinion - I grew up in a very alcoholic accessible environment with all of it's ugly trappings. Growing up, I've never had the desire to even try any type of alcohol or liquor. I'm now 32 and am able to say that I've never had a drink in my life. That's not something I'm bragging about - I just want to use it to make a point. I have several Christian friends who partake occasionly and I never begrudge them or look down upon them. They are extremely responsible and they try to be as congnizant of those in whose presence they do this as they don't wish to be a stumbling block to anyone.

I just think that caution and care should be taken if you choose to drink. It shouldn't be something that you do capriciously or out of peer pressure.

humbly,
Shawn

[OldBadfish]

Wasn't also juice called "wine" in the bible?

Look what happens when people go to bars, people become drunk and promiscuous, which sometimes leads to pre marital sex and all kinds of attrocities.

I also like an occasional beer, but I would have to think God would frown upon social drinking.

A drink or 2 at home may be OK, but going to bars and social gatherings to drink and get buzzed IMO, God would not approve.

[OldBadfish]

Seeing that our Saviour Himself drank wine, Do we know for sure that the wine our savior drank was actually fermented? Or was it just juice of the fruit?

[His_Saving_Grace]

Originally posted by TheBear
Is the consumption of alcoholic beverages a sin?

John My answer is more of a testimony than advice. It's up to each individual on how they take my testimony.

First let me state that wine seems to be a drink of choice, but not often are the people of the bible considered drunk. Lot got drunk (because of his daughters and their plans for continuing life on earth since they assume they were the last living souls on earth, and Noah not long after the flood. In neither situation did good come from it. In Noah, he blamed one of his sons and cursed him, and kicked him out because he was seen drunk and naked. As far as I am concerned, Noah was completely wrong. His son had no way of knowing he was naked, and did the right thing in informing his brothers. They ended up covering their father by walking in backwards, but then they let Noah know how they knew he was naked. So it seems to be the same coverup most alcoholics do to this day.

In the other case, it lead to incest and children from that incest.

Now for the testimony. 24 years ago (more or less) the drinking age in Illinois was only 18. I had a horrible home life and once I could drink, I started just to stay away from home as often as possible. I did this for over 2 years. I drank , every night, $20 on 50 cent drafts (Yes, 40 drafts a night, 7 days a week) I was one of the group, an old timer in the bar, and very popular. Then one day, I decided I would just drink soda the entire night.

As the night wore on, those friends of mine who I thought were cool, started acting more and more moronic, and beligerent. And while I was noticing this, I was almost physically slapped in the head with the realization that I acted the exact same way as I got drunker. I realized that while they were jerks (I would use the true terminology, but this is a christian forum) I was too. I was spending $140 a week to be a "jerk". It occured to me that I could be a jerk for free and save that money. I quit drinking that day, and have only touched wine or a drink a few times since then, and not once inn the past 8 years.

The sin isn't in taking A drink, it is what you do after how many drinks you end up taking. It just makes it so much easier to find yourself sinning in some other way because while drinking your mind ISN'T on God or Jesus, it is on that drink and the person you are trying to impress, or anything else that brought you there drinking.

I heard for years that beer is great when you are thirsty. So is Ice Tea, and I can not drink 40 of them in a day. I couldn't drink 40 glasses of water either. I couldn't drink a 6 pack of water in an hour, yet this is normal for many of us. So beer does not cure thirst, or you wouldn't be able to take more and more.

Anyway, like I said, take my tesimony how you each choose. I do know I have had more money, and more happiness than I ever did while drinking. So I will remain far from anything that effects my thoughts on God and Jesus.

[solo66 man]

It was wine but it was watered down for daily drinking. But it is believed that the water Jesus turned into wine, was the genuine stuff. Wine was the norm, partly, because of the lack of refridgeration. Milk was not widely drunken because of there dietary laws.

Now, if we are in a situation where having a single glass of wine or beer will cause someone to sin because they dont believe it is a sin to drink or it will interfere somehow with our witness to others, then, according to the apostle Paul, we should not drink that glass of wine.

Originally posted by Badfish
Do we know for sure that the wine our savior drank was actually fermented? Or was it just juice of the fruit?

[Blynn]

I think being drunk is a sin.

originally posted by his_saving_grace
The sin isn't in taking A drink, it is what you do after how many drinks you end up taking. It just makes it so much easier to find yourself sinning in some other way because while drinking your mind ISN'T on God or Jesus, it is on that drink and the person you are trying to impress, or anything else that brought you there drinking.

I think this is a good statement.

I personally do not drink. I am an alcoholic. Alcohol has a different effect on me. I have a complete personality change, can't stop at one, and could end up blacking out for the evening or end up missing for a few days ... Alcohol and I do not get along at all.
I have been sober for 13 years. :)

God Bless,
Roberta

[RNwannabe]

I know what it is like when one drink leads to another.

To me just the sight of alcohol is sickening. It brings back memories of times that if it werent for the Lord, I would have walked away from my mom and brothers. I am so very grateful that Jesus saved them and delivered them from their alcoholism.

To me it is a sin to drink. Not everyone stops at one, or even two.
And if a person does then they are rare indeed.

Each person has their own perspective on the issue of alcohol, and the above is mine. Some people have horror stories associated with alcohol, some have never went through the bad side of alcohol. I guess your view depends on what you have experienced first hand.

I guess we will only know for sure when we get to heaven and ask the Lord.

[TheBear]

Let me bump this up a notch. Many insurance companies, employers and state motor vehicle departments, consider a person technicaly "impaired" after consuming only one drink. Do these standards exceed God's?

John

[kezekiel]

Two things are for sure:

1) You won't ever get drunk if you don't drink, and

2) Whatever you decide, you can't choose for somebody else.

Be prudent, be wise, be patient, be forgiving. Do all that, and alchohol will never be a problem for you, and you won't be a problem for other people. Sometimes, in the alchohol debate, we may forget that both of those - our own consumption of alchohol and how we deal with the subject with our fellow man - are of equal concern.

God bless!

Kevin

[Optimus_P]

look at it this way. When the rules on drinking were established some people were told not to drink. and everyone else was told not to drink anything strong, and not to get drunk.

and by anything stong i take that as hard liquar. i only drink beer (and i only have a few+2 ) no more mixed drinks.

rule 1) never drink along (always sit infront of a mirror) hehehhe


ok ok ok i know we have some alci's here. so ill just say this i watch it pull my family apart we had alot of drug abusers/law offenders/alki's in my house growing up so i know what its like.

[TheBear]

Misc. fact:

The alcohol content is the the same in one shot of whiskey, one glass of wine, or one bottle/can of beer.

[Optimus_P]

yeah i learned that one at Parkplace.

Sometimes it makes ya wish the Bible was a bit more consise in exactly what strong liquar is.

[TheBear]

What is "Parkplace"? :confused:

John

[kezekiel]

Originally posted by Optimus_P
Sometimes it makes ya wish the Bible was a bit more consise in exactly what strong liquar is.

You might look at it this way: since we are no longer under the old Jewish law, the kind of hair-splittling that they would often engage in ("what really is hard liquor?...") is not the way that we are to approach such a question. The guidelines we are given are not to get drunk, to avoid strong drink (likely for the same purpose), and to avoid stumbling our neighbor. There's enough there to go on; we don't have to scratch our chins and wonder what the Bible means by "strong drink."

[StogusMaximus]

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; " Ephesians 5:18

[Redeemed1]

I guess my question would be this: Why do you want to drink? Is it simply because you like the taste of alcohol, or is it because you want the feeling it gives? As in everything else, the motivation of our heart is often the deciding factor on whether or not something is a sin, if it is not clearly defined in God's Word.

[His_Saving_Grace]

Originally posted by blynn
I think being drunk is a sin.
I personally do not drink. I am an alcoholic. Alcohol has a different effect on me. I have a complete personality change, can't stop at one, and could end up blacking out for the evening or end up missing for a few days ... Alcohol and I do not get along at all.
I have been sober for 13 years. :)

God Bless,
Roberta God bless you in your fight to remain sober.

I agree in the personality change. Many people call it "to loosen up" or "to unwind". I know from my experiance, I am a very easy going guy almost all the time. But while I was drinking I wasn't In fact, the change started coming over me BEFORE my first drink. and just got worse from there. I would start sizing everyone up for a fight. I didn't (even drunk) try to START a fight, but when I was drunk I never backed down from one either. And if the opportunity was there, I would get involved in someone elses fight.

I congratulate you on not only realizing the problem, but accepting and, by accepting, finding the strength to deny it.

[His_Saving_Grace]

Originally posted by TheBear
Let me bump this up a notch. Many insurance companies, employers and state motor vehicle departments, consider a person technicaly "impaired" after consuming only one drink. Do these standards exceed God's?

John Just a curious question. Are you searching for edification to drink? Or scriptural backing to help someone else slow or altogether stop drinking?

[TheBear]

His_Saving_Grace,

You ask:

"Just a curious question. Are you searching for edification, (I think you meant 'justification'.), to drink? Or scriptural backing to help someone else slow or altogether stop drinking?"

The answer is no, to both questions. :D

John

[Optimus_P]

Parkplace is a rehab center. For substance abuse drugs/liquor.

Dont ask why i was there I am still trying to figure that one out. At the time i was sent i was clean as a whistle. I just gave teachers a hard time. They said i was useing cocain.

[JohnR7]

>>Remember Paul prescribing wine for Timothy's stomach problem?

1 Tim. 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Paul told Timothy to use a LITTLE bit of wine. In the Greek, the word really means a small amount. It is used by James to talk about how little our tounge is, but how great of damage it can do. This is the word used to talk about Noah and his family, how few they were, and yet they were the only ones God saved.

In the same letter Paul tells Timothy, that deacons and church leaders are not to be given to drinking wine. I suppose they are to set a example for others. But under the law, the Levi priests were not to drink, so their judgement would not be hindered as to what was holy and what was not holy.

What is the reason for drinking wine? As Christians we sure do not need to drink. We have the Holy Spirit of God, we have all the love, joy, peace, contentment and satisfaction of Heaven. At Pentacost, the world accused the Church of drinking. Peter actually had to defend themselves against the charge.

Acts 2:15-17
For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. [16] But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

[17] 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

If anyone has ever had a Holy Spirit Inspired dream, they are awesome. I have had them every now and then if I go to sleep after reading and studying the Bible for two or three hours. In a moment of time, it is like being in Heaven in tecnocolor. God will show you more in a moment, than you could gain or learn in a whole lifetime of study. They usually last, that is I carry them with me for two or three days.

I remember the last one I had. God showed me that everyone, sinner and saint alike, are going to get the desires of their heart. Everyone is going to end up getting exactly what they want. That is why it is SO important to purify our heart before God, so that we end up only getting good things. Thanks, JohnR7

[Jaysun]

Originally posted by Droobie


Seeing that our Saviour Himself drank wine, and it is known that He was sinless... Then I would conclude it alright to consume alcohol. As Solo66 says... be master of the drink, not the drink master over you...


Back then Wine so waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than it is today. In act it had way less alcohol in it, and it was better than the water, the water had waste products and other things in it. So you can't use that as justification.

[Mike K]

"Many insurance companies, employers and state motor vehicle departments, consider a person technicaly "impaired" after consuming only one drink. Do these standards exceed God's? "

These are standards imposed by those who would lose money from your impairment.

They're not saying "don't drink" or even "don't get drunk", they're saying, if you do, and it effects us, we're not covering you.

To bump it up another notch, if we sign an agreement saying we won't drink on the job, or while driving, and we do, we have sinned against them and God by breaking a contract.

You brought up a really good point; responsibility.

mk

[Apologist]

Originally posted by Jaysun



Back then Wine so waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than it is today. In act it had way less alcohol in it, and it was better than the water, the water had waste products and other things in it. So you can't use that as justification.

Actually Jaysun you are partly correct. They used to add water to wine in 3:1 up to 10:1 parts which made it difficult to get drunk on the wine. They added the wine to the water to purify the water which was, as you said, not fit to drink. When wine was drank 'straight' it was considered, "Strong Drink" and was forbidden as scripture declares.

God Bless

[oncewaslost]

just a little fact i thought i throw in. wine was cleaner than water was considering they gave the animals water and washed clothes and bodies and such in water and there were no purification systems so water wasn't actually all that clean....

[JohnR7]

>>so water wasn't actually all that clean....

If you boil water for 20 min. it will be save to drink. A lot of people around the world have to boil their water. In asia they have a appliance that you put the water in and it automaticly boils it, and shuts itself off after 20 min. Of course they are for "rich" people. Poor people can not afford things like that to purify the water, but they can boil it in a pan over their fire. Thanks, JohnR7

[Christopher]

"Wine is a mocker ,strong drink is raging; whosoevr is decieved therby is not wise." Proverbs says

" if any of you lack wisdom,let him ask of God which giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not" James says

want to be wise, leave alcohol alone... need to know what God thinks, ask him for his wisdom [leave it alone].

Since God is good, and he tells us to leave it alone, and the scripture tells us God woold not have us to be unwise, then...

"to him that knoweth to do Good and doeth it not to him it is SIN"
again in James


as for the wine in bible days. There is clear understanding from the scripture concerning God's will towards fermented wine and acoholic beverages.

IN the greek there are 3 words for wine besids the hebrew.. one always means fermented, one can mean either or, depending on the conyexy, and one means plain old grape juice, or something simliar. All that the scriptures forbids regarding strong drink,etc. is clearly soeaking of alcoholic beverages, the other referances are either a word that can be taken either way, or as non-acoholic. Considering God's attitude towards the clearly acoholic passages, and that God and his holliness change not, we are foolish to assume that we the "priesthood" of believeers are any less than required to abide by God's stabdard and decalred will... and that to not do that is SIN.

btw - yes they used the water down method, as well as the concetrate/paste method , which was pure grape juice, and they had other methods as well.

As for Jesus drinking wine, serach it in the greek....

as to him turning the water into wine, you can just use commonsense. A jewsih wedding was 7days. They were already well drunk ( not drunken) that is they had druhnk so much they needed more... now... if they were drunk already, not only would Christ have broken his own standard ( drunkness is a work of the flesh, and those that do such shall not inherit the Kingdom ) , not only would he have had pleasure in them that do such things, not only would he sin.... but how in the world would they in a druken stooper/condition be able to affirm that this was the best of all the wine they had drunk. It makes no sense whatsoever to think that Christ would promote drunkness, alcohol consumption, or even do uch himself, and if he wouldn;t do it.. should we who wear the name of Christlike do it? NO

Now, if it takes a certain person 5 beers to be drunk... and they drink one, then just how drunk are they.

Not only are drunkards forbidden inheritance in the Kingdomj, but so also are they that do SUCH LIKE... the occasional,social,etc., drink is such like the drunkard and drunkeness, is it not?

Not only is Christ a High priest, but he is a Nazarite ( as well as a Nazarene - just making sure that you guys know I know the difference ), he therefore would not have drunk alcoholic beverages.... again, neither then should we.

Speaking of wine, Proverbs warns us to look not upon the wine when it moveth itself about- that is when it is fermenting or is fermented.... if we are not to look at ...what makes us think we are to drink it?! That is the real point, God is saying leave alcoholic beverages alone, they are off limits to you!


Paul tells us to be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit... there is one sure way to avoid breaking that command in regards to being drunk... abstain from alcoholic beverages... a little leaven leavens the whole lump... a little alcohol leavens the whole bottle... a little drink defiles the whole heart....

let us not defile the temple of God.... it belongs to him, glorify him with it... do you really think that alcoholic consumption is glorifying to God?


Is it sin? most definitly.


Christopher