Replacement Theology

[Wags]

Replacement theology came up on another thread few days ago and I thought I'd give the topic its own thread after I came across an interesting article (http://www.jewishvoicetoday.org/magazine/0501/page13.htm) in the Jewish Voice (http://www.jewishvoicetoday.org/index.htm) Today magazine.

For those that still attend (or are in contact with) "mainstream" churches, how prevelant do you find replacement theology to be?

[beej7]

If we mean the same thing by 'mainstream' (Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran... and so forth) even in my small community, I think it exists to a small extent. From what I read concerning national levels, I'd say to a larger extent. (Presbyterian Church divesting,,,etc.) Then the Catholic and orthodox--well...no comment.

I think it would be hard to exist in the Evangelical and Charismatic churches. Most are so Pro-Israel that it would make anyone with even a teensy bit of anti-semitism really uncomfortable. (though it may be a stretch to some. I lump the replacement theology in with other anti-semitic beliefs, and believe it has no place in the church or in the minds and hearts of any believer.)

A woman just left our church. I don't know people's hearts, except that what comes out of their mouth often exposes it. This woman was pro-palestinian. On bad days, I wondered if she was even a believer. On the best days, I believed she was misguided, and tried to gently share with her. (Not that this has anything to do with Replacement theology. I just find that I have been 'judging' people on how they view Israel--politically or spiritually.) :o


Beej

[yod]

I find that every denomination has some aspect of replacement theology lurking in their midst.

For instance, how many christians quote Romans 2:29 to say that believing in Yeshua makes one a "true" jew without reading it in the context of the next 3 verses?

And the 2-House Ephramite groups are teaching another brand of replacement theology to "messianics".

Have you ever noticed that everyone wants to be Israel until persecution comes?

[MyLittleWonders]

In our experience (my husband's and mine), Replacement theology runs deep and strong. I still remember my husband saying something once to a member of our former Bible study to the effect of, "what do you think will happen to the Jewish people ... they are God's choosen people ... they must still hold that place with Him." Immediately the other guy (an "ordained" minister too) replied about how the Jews aren't His choosen people anymore, that they gave up that right ... blah blah blah. With our meeting with our pastor a few weeks back, I'm wondering now too his views on the "church" replacing the Jews/Israelites. Hmm ...

But yes, I believe it's there, it's strong, and it's going to take a lot to break down the belief that the "church" has taken it's place as God's choosen people - and I'm talking about non-denominational type churches ... I believe the feelings are even worse in RC and EO churches ...

[visionary]

Anytime you do not have a right understanding of the Word, you then are caught up in some replacement theology. LEt's replace Christ's flesh rising from the grave to spirit. Let's replace sabbath with sunday. Let's replace Israel with gentiles for the promise. Let's replace faith [believe torah] in to faith [believe]. LEt's repalce grace [God's forgivenness of sins] with grace [no matter what claim grace, like a get out of jail free card]. Let's replace salvation [our hope of glory] with salvation [ once saved always saved].

I see a whole lot of replacement theology going on. So much so, that when you add them all together, you have a whole another religion that has nothing to do with the truth, just the same names.

[beej7]

Anytime you do not have a right understanding of the Word, you then are caught up in some replacement theology. LEt's replace Christ's flesh rising from the grave to spirit. Let's replace sabbath with sunday. Let's replace Israel with gentiles for the promise. Let's replace faith [believe torah] in to faith [believe]. LEt's repalce grace [God's forgivenness of sins] with grace [no matter what claim grace, like a get out of jail free card]. Let's replace salvation [our hope of glory] with salvation [ once saved always saved].

I see a whole lot of replacement theology going on. So much so, that when you add them all together, you have a whole another religion that has nothing to do with the truth, just the same names.

I guess I didn't think of the broader implications....when one looks at it from this 'angle', it IS much larger than I imagined. As yod said in an earlier post, every denomination has some aspect of it lurking in their midst. I guess this is like the little bit of leaven, leavening the whole lump. :(

Beej

[Dr. Shon]

Wags, Thanks for the reminder to go back and read the article. When I started reading this thread, I just went down the posts and forgot to go back and read it. It was excellent!

[Blueskies]

I think Visionary has a great point. Replacement theology has become the norm in nearly every denomination, and I think most prevelantly the Non-denominatonal. I grew up in a church where we were urged to study the old testament, understand the temple, David, Solomon, and that the Jews were his chosen people. That we have just taken that a step further and been grafted in through the grace of Messiah. Whatever happens will happen to the jew and then the gentile.

The first time I went to a church where the commonly held belief was that christians have replaced the Jews, I was floored, to say the least. Now, so many "other" beliefs have entered in that it's downright appalling, to say the least.

[ShirChadash]

Lets look at that quote in CONTEXT.... (context - its a favorite word around here :))



:thumbsup: :clap:

Context context context...

[yod]

There were specific promises made to Israel concerning the land. In the interest of brevity, I'll only list a few.

1. They were told that someday they would be dispersed to the north south east and west.

2. They were promised that someday they would return.

3. They were told that Jerusalem would be trodden underfoot of the gentiles until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.

4. There would be a "covenant with the many" made, a false peace treaty, at the end of the age.

5. When all the nations have come against them, Messiah would stand on the Mount of Olives and judge all the nations who have come against her.




There are so many scriptures that talk about this time that I have to wonder if someone who doesn't know this has ever read the Bible? If today's Israel isn't the fulfillment of these things then God is a liar.

The time has come. Get ready....for our redemption (and hers) draweth nigh....

[insaneinthebrain]

Closed for staff review. Hang tight!

[insaneinthebrain]

Moderation
I've cleaned out several debate posts from this thread, as they were in violation of
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(responses to these posts by Messianics were also removed to keep the thread from getting too confusing ;))

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insaneinthebrain
Moderator

[insaneinthebrain]

Game on! ;)