Kicked Out of Church?

[Mea Culpa]

Kicked Out of Church?


Hi!

I was wondering if anyone has been "kicked out" of their congregation, or if the have been asked to leave?

If you have been, what were the reasons?

Thanks!

[Bruce101]

I have a friend that was in several positions that were politely taken from her when she started making her views known. She no longer attends any church at all. I am part of a "No Holds Barred" Bible Study group, not affiliated with any churches, she says the group is her church. We meet on the Sabbath and there is a definite Hebrew flavor to the group, though not all are on board.
Bruce

[nerdypants]

hmm this lady got kicked out of our church because she laughed really loud during the service, i think she was mentally disturbed though

[Echad]

Has anyone been asked or [pushed] to leave there church for your messianic belief’s ?

[Beth-el girl]

I have always left before they could because it is SO hard tostay were you dissagree so much.

[visionary]

The group home church moved to a new home to hold their services together and didn't tell me... does that count?

[Beth-el girl]

The group home church moved to a new home to hold their services together and didn't tell me... does that count?


Vis,
Sorry that kind of made me giggle. ;)

[visionary]

Vis,
Sorry that kind of made me giggle. ;)something like this...http://www3.christianforums.com/images/mood/Happy.gif

[P_G]

I was told point blank when I was licensed as a pastor (Messianic) that I was part of a cult and that I was not allowed to tell any one that I was licensed. That the pastor of that church was protecting the flock and me from becoming the next David Koresh or Jim Jones. (Assembly of G-d)

I left within 2 weeks in tears. My relations with that church are very strained and of all the congregations in the area NC has recieved the least support from them.

PG

[Beth-el girl]

something like this...http://www3.christianforums.com/images/mood/Happy.gif
YEP!:thumbsup:

[visionary]

Yes, I saw the humor in the sad situation too. The Pastor probably really believed he was doing his flock a favor....or maybe it had nothing to do with the flock's salvation that he was concerned about...it happened, and at the time, I thought that was a cleaver move on the Pasotr's part...

We were discussing the new garden of eden coming at the last bible study... and I mentioned that there will be no more meat eating in the garden...much to the pastor's dismay...while some in the gathering could see what I was saying... the pastor could not.

So ended the relationship..

[Beth-el girl]

Yes, I saw the humor in the sad situation too. The Pastor probably really believed he was doing his flock a favor....or maybe it had nothing to do with the flock's salvation that he was concerned about...it happened, and at the time, I thought that was a cleaver move on the Pasotr's part...

We were discussing the new garden of eden coming at the last bible study... and I mentioned that there will be no more meat eating in the garden...much to the pastor's dismay...while some in the gathering could see what I was saying... the pastor could not.

So ended the relationship..
Vis,
You remind me of my sister. She has had things like that happen and it happened in the messianic group she was with and other groups!

[Pray4Isrel]

I have never been asked to leave, but have left out of my own choice because of my Messianic beliefs/practices.

[Mea Culpa]

Well as the original starter of this thread, I have to ask a question.

Echad suggested I post this question in the Messianic section of the Christianforums.com site. So I said, ok. :)

I see that most of you have felt that your Messianic beliefs were violated in one way or another. Without going in to tons of detail, what exactly is different about your Messianic Judaism and the "mainstream" (forgive me if that offends you, I just don't know what to call it) church?

I live in a very small northern British Columbian town in Canada, so I have never met a Messianic Jewish person to know what they believe.

It is cool though, since Christ came first to the Jews, and then to the Greek.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for your posts, they are great!

visionary - that is terrible! And yes, I believe that that counts!!

[visionary]

Hey, I use to live Osoyoos....do you live near there?

[beej7]

Well as the original starter of this thread, I have to ask a question.

Echad suggested I post this question in the Messianic section of the Christianforums.com site. So I said, ok. :)

I see that most of you have felt that your Messianic beliefs were violated in one way or another. Without going in to tons of detail, what exactly is different about your Messianic Judaism and the "mainstream" (forgive me if that offends you, I just don't know what to call it) church?

I live in a very small northern British Columbian town in Canada, so I have never met a Messianic Jewish person to know what they believe.

It is cool though, since Christ came first to the Jews, and then to the Greek.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for your posts, they are great!

visionary - that is terrible! And yes, I believe that that counts!!


There are many (and I believe major) differences between mainstream churches and Messianic Congregations---but I think there are major differences between many mainstream churches and Christianity,

There undoubtedly will be others who have been here on this forum longer and been Messianic's much longer to explain things better, but I will start off by saying that Jesus didn't come first to the Jews---He WAS a Jew. He was observant of the Jewish Law (Torah) during His time on earth. It was the good news of His Resurrection, and of salvation, that was preached to the Jews first, then the Greeks.

I believe that we who believe in Jesus should be looking at the Jews and the Hebrew faith for the understanding of the scripture we need to continue to grow in the Word. The Old Testement was written for, by, and about God's Chosen People. The New Testement was also written by Jews who were either alive during Jesus time on earth, or at least during the first century after His resurrection. Those men, and those who lived by their teaching on the Messiah were still Jewish, and still following the Torah, observing the feasts and Holy Days that had been ordained by G-d.

It is my belief that today we should be doing the same thing the first century believers did. I have heard and read up on several of the Holy days and feasts, and feel like as a Christian, I have missed out SO much---not for the sake of the days, but for their meaning---and I am beginning to see they have Layers of meaning, as well. But ALL of them direct us to the rememberance of Adonai, our L-rd. www.aish.com (http://www.aish.com/) tells more about the Holy Days, about Shabbat, and certainly you can find among the threads here all kinds of information about them.

But even as important as the Holy Days are, as G-d was the One who set the times, is the study of the Word, of the Law, in the 'original.' I have found out more in the last few weeks than I have in many many years in the 'church.' (I can't read or understand Hebrew, but there are many on this forum who do, and who are willing to explain the scripture, and there are many many books out in the 'real' world that do the same.)

I hope this helps.

Beej :wave:

[Wags]

Here are a few articles that will help to answer you questions on the differences. They explain the what, hows and whys...

Apostolic Judaism & Historic Christianity: The Core Difference (http://www.torahresource.com/Newsletter/ApostolicJudaism.pdf)

Basics of Messianic Judaism (http://www.messianic.com/articles/basics.htm)

The Growing Split between Synagogue and Church in the 1st Century: the Fiscus Judaicus (http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Last%20Fiscus%20Judaicus.pdf)

Acts 15 and the Jerusalem Council (http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Acts%2015.pdf)

Are the Festivals (Moedim) for Today? (http://www.torahresource.com/English%20Articles/Are%20Festivals%20for%20Today.pdf)

If you would like to learn more about messianic beliefs you can recive a free copy of Messiah Magazine by clicking here. (http://ffoz.org/Magazines/mag_free_issue.shtml)This magazine is put out by First Fruits of Zion (http://ffoz.org/Home/) which is "an educational ministry dedicated to strengthening your relationship to the Land, the People and the Scriptures of Israel."

[beej7]

Thanks for the links! :hug: I really needed these!

Beej

[Wags]

Thanks for the links! :hug: I really needed these!

Beej

Most of those articles came from Tim Hegg's website - TorahResource.com (http://www.torahresource.com/) - and are only the tip of the iceberg on what he offers (for free!) there.

I would highly recommend getting his book:
http://www.torahresource.com/Images/intro%20to%20Torah%20Living.jpg (http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductListing.aspx?GID=4776234&Dept=241785) Introduction to Torah Living. The table of contents and sample pages are available on-line. It is well worth the $20!

Of course I recommend all of his books - The Letter Writter, You Have Heard It Said... etc :thumbsup:

[Mirelys]

My husband and I were asked to leave our last church...because my husband had courted the pastor's daughter before he met me, and for some reason the pastor was ticked when we got married :D
Anyway...
My family has never been asked to leave because of our beliefs, but we have been cold-shouldered out of a couple of churches. The nicest, most sympathetic pastor we ever had, actually sat down and respectfully debated with us, then told us we could attend his church as long as we didn't share our beliefs with anyone.
I agree that there's a huge difference between Messianic and mainstream congregations. Not just in belief, but in attitude...
I had major doctrinal differences with the only Messianic congregation I've attended, but I still felt more at home there then at the AG, Baptist, or non-denominational congregations. I would give up a mainstream congregation with whom I agreed with 75%, for a Messianic congregation that I only agreed with 25%, as long as that 25% was the Sabbath and the other appointed times. They are precious to me.

[Mea Culpa]

Hey, I use to live Osoyoos....do you live near there?

No, actually, north of Prince George!

[visionary]

I went up salmon fishing at Terrace on an Indian reserve where there is a gorge that has not bottom, cliffs on each side where the Indians stand on cliff shelfs 20 feet down the cliff and ten feet above the foaming waters gaffing salmon and tossing them up to the top of the cliff. Do you know where that is?

[visionary]

Wait... wait... if I remember right, Prince George is out on the pains in the center of BC. From there you can head out to Bella Coola. As soon as you get down in the valley if you follow the creek south on the non existant road, you can get so far back into the valley that it is called lost.... and if you hike back far enough you will come to Lost Lake where a hermit lives and looks after the only breeding Loone flock in the world. Awesome country.

[Mea Culpa]

Wait... wait... if I remember right, Prince George is out on the pains in the center of BC. From there you can head out to Bella Coola. As soon as you get down in the valley if you follow the creek south on the non existant road, you can get so far back into the valley that it is called lost.... and if you hike back far enough you will come to Lost Lake where a hermit lives and looks after the only breeding Loone flock in the world. Awesome country.

I live north of Prince George! Bella Coola is south west of Prince George. I have never been there, though it seems like beautiful country. I know nothing about this dude who looks after the only breeding Loone flock in the world. I wonder about that. There are loons all over this lake, and if they didn't do "anything" there wouldn't be any here!! How is that for logic? :)

[Mea Culpa]

There are many (and I believe major) differences between mainstream churches and Messianic Congregations---but I think there are major differences between many mainstream churches and Christianity,

There undoubtedly will be others who have been here on this forum longer and been Messianic's much longer to explain things better, but I will start off by saying that Jesus didn't come first to the Jews---He WAS a Jew. He was observant of the Jewish Law (Torah) during His time on earth. It was the good news of His Resurrection, and of salvation, that was preached to the Jews first, then the Greeks.

I believe that we who believe in Jesus should be looking at the Jews and the Hebrew faith for the understanding of the scripture we need to continue to grow in the Word. The Old Testement was written for, by, and about God's Chosen People. The New Testement was also written by Jews who were either alive during Jesus time on earth, or at least during the first century after His resurrection. Those men, and those who lived by their teaching on the Messiah were still Jewish, and still following the Torah, observing the feasts and Holy Days that had been ordained by G-d.

It is my belief that today we should be doing the same thing the first century believers did. I have heard and read up on several of the Holy days and feasts, and feel like as a Christian, I have missed out SO much---not for the sake of the days, but for their meaning---and I am beginning to see they have Layers of meaning, as well. But ALL of them direct us to the rememberance of Adonai, our L-rd. www.aish.com (http://www.aish.com/) tells more about the Holy Days, about Shabbat, and certainly you can find among the threads here all kinds of information about them.

But even as important as the Holy Days are, as G-d was the One who set the times, is the study of the Word, of the Law, in the 'original.' I have found out more in the last few weeks than I have in many many years in the 'church.' (I can't read or understand Hebrew, but there are many on this forum who do, and who are willing to explain the scripture, and there are many many books out in the 'real' world that do the same.)

I hope this helps.

Beej :wave:

Hey,

thanks for the info!! And I will look at the web page too. sorry I didn't respond sooner!

[Tishri1]

The group home church moved to a new home to hold their services together and didn't tell me... does that count?

Your an orphan! I'd adopt you if I could, how far are you from San Diego?

I left before the fire got to hot, but I took a few gals into my home to teach em, and now they are there ruffling feathers too. More than I ever did!

[Tishri1]

But even as important as the Holy Days are, as G-d was the One who set the times, is the study of the Word, of the Law, in the 'original.' I have found out more in the last few weeks than I have in many many years in the 'church.' (I can't read or understand Hebrew, but there are many on this forum who do, and who are willing to explain the scripture, and there are many many books out in the 'real' world that do the same.)

I hope this helps.

Beej :wave:

BeeJ You sound just like me a few weeks after I discovered this too... 8 years ago, and I am still amaized how much there is to learn....never got that sitting in the pew at my sundayschool class:(

Tishri1

[visionary]

The freedom of learning because of the internet has exponentually helped the Word of God spread like wildfire. For people are free to follow their heart, at home, without the world seeing who they are... and they can taste and see that the Lord is good before the world bombards them with worldly dictates. The last days will be rapid ones. I wonder if a person can absorb it all.

[Velcro]

I was excommunicated. Long story. Keep it short(er). :)

The first thing that ticked them off was when I took Greek back in 1977-8. They were sure I would be led astray, because they believed and taught us that they had the only truth, the whole truth, and learning Greek would certainly lead me into error.

When I started taking Hebrew in @1996, they really had a cow. :) They watched me and critiqued everything I did; however, it was fine for one person in the ministerial staff to take Greek then.

At the time, I was visiting my shul once in a while, and they were really influencing me. That really upset their apple cart.

So I started visiting one of the older ladies from the church, who had had serious brain surgery that did not work, and she was place in a home. We went every Sunday, and the home then asked me to consider doing church there. I was not fully with the Messianic community yet, although I attended. I was still afraid to leave that church, because all my life, I had been taught that if I left, I would go straight to hell, and those teaching and that kind of fear are hard to shake. So, with that church's backing, I started making sure that home had church every Sunday by arranging the music, musicians, and the ministers and by attending every Sunday myself..

At the time, I also taught Sunday school, sang solos and in small groups, did the church's newsletter, and did a number of other jobs for the church. In the meantime, the pastor was being railroaded out of the church by some very unscrupulous folk, and after they succeeded, they began to work on me through telling complete untruths to the new pastor or by complaining about things I really did do.

What things did I really do? Three things:

I brought NIVs for my Sunday school students and used them in my class
I wore a watch on a chain, because I am allergic to metal, and the ones on the chain did not cause me to break out in hives like the wrist watches did -and-
I wore a wedding band, which I took off at the pastors request when I entered the church, while he allowed a couple others to wear theirs in the church.
Oh! Let me add a fourth: I did not lick the boots of the complainers.

So one day, the pastor told me that I could wear the watch, if I wore it on a "rope" and not on a chain. Now, this was where I got beligerant. I went to the basement and pulled a nasty-looking fat string off an old green tarp, put my watch on it, and wore it that Sunday morning, with the fanciest suit I owned. One of the women who had been one of my main thorns in the flesh, came up and pretended to be interested in my new grandchild, so that she could get a close look. It was So Funny! And the pastor came up and complimented me! This was hilariously sad!

So I told him that next time, the watch would be on its chain, and I would no longer play the hypocrite for him by taking off my wedding band. He told me that I could no longer participate in the church, then. And then, after a little thought, he told me that I could continue doing the nursing home ministry! I had to laugh at that! The only reason he said that was because no one else would do it, especially not him! I often had to buy these people lunch, just to get them to do it! I told him that if I was not good enough to represent his church, I was not good enough to do the nursing home services.

So I was out. The same weekend, my son and his family left; a little over a year later, my husband left, and about two years after that, my daughter and her family left. In fact, starting immediately after they got that pastor I mentioned removed, the congregation dropped by (let me use my calculator) 85.5% within 1.5 years.

Well, that pastor did me a favor! Thank HaShem, He knew what I needed -- the push required to commit myself to Torah!

[visionary]

And they do this all in the name of Jesus... He must be shaking His head....going tst, tst.