New Covenant unfulfilled

[By Grace]

Okay, something just occurred to me. A covenant is about things *hoped for*, not already attained. God made a covenant with Adam and Eve, the promise of the *hope* for a Messiah who would come and provide a way out of the sin they had allowed into the world. They never saw the Messiah--the covenant was not fulfilled until thousands of years later. (Yeshua fulfilled this covenant, but God's providing what He promised in no way negates His instructions for us.)

God made a covenant with Noah that He would not again flood the whole world. The promise that Noah *hoped for* is still being fulfilled, every day that our world is not totally flooded.

God made a covenant with Abraham that He would give him innumerable descendents, and the Land of Israel. But Abraham never saw that promise fulfilled. He lived in *hope* that God would someday honor His promises.
God made a covenant with us, in the "New Covenant", where His laws will be written on our hearts. Where we won't have to teach each other b/c we'll all know Him. These are things we *hope for*. It's not yet fulfilled, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't yet exist. It just means that there's something wonderful to be fulfilled in our future. The completion of the Covenant He has with us.

Does that make sense?

[Shimshon]

Yes, a covenant is a promise. A promise is an occurance that is hoped to come to pass. However there was always a 'sign' of the covenant.

Noach's sign was the rainbow. Avraham's sign was circumcision. Moshe's sign was Torah observance. Yeshua's sign.........Ruach.

Each sign was a physical display of the promise to come. It was not just a promise in word only to be fulfilled by action in some later time. It has process and fulfillment. Yes we have a wonderful hope of complete perfection without sin to battle and eternal lives to glorify YHWH with. But as with Noach, his sign was a 'physical' reminder of his promise. With Avraham, his sign was a physical reminder of his promise. With Moshe, again a physical reminder of his promise. And with Yeshua, a physical reminder. We are 'sealed' by his Ruach who keeps us till the day of judgement. We physically walk differently than those who do not have Torah living in and through them. As is defined over and over by the Talmidim in the Ketuvi'im.

The new promise, new covenant, or next step in his continuous plan is to place the old promises within our hearts instead of on our bodies.

It's no more a "NEW" thing than the next step toward his presence. If I plot out the path to my house that takes exactly 100 steps and then start taking steps to reach it. Have I taken a NEW path when having reached the 50th step? It's not like the other 49 i've just stepped on. It's completely new. And so is the next step, and the next. But it is all in the path YHWH has placed us on. Most of them did not follow the path, but YHWH always maintained the path. Now he makes it possible to follow the path, because he places himself in us and walks if for us. As long as we agree with his IF. THEN he can fulfill his part of the promise. The problem is most don't agree with the IF and so nullify the THEN. And so nullify the promise YHWH made with them. But YHWH's NEVER nullifies his covenant with us. He promised people would fall away, and he promised people would return. And it was, will be, and is so.

We have a hope for the complete fulfillment of Yeshua's work/word. But we are sealed with his Ruach as a sign of this promise. He said this sign would remind us of all things that YHWH ever said to us and lead us in ALL Truth, keeping us blameless till the day Yeshua comes to reveal the completion of his promise. Right now we have hope because of the sign that leads us endlessly to the presence of YHWH, Yeshua.

[Beth-el girl]

Jill as Far as I see it in my studies with my Pastor the promises that they and we hope in yet many never saw... Will be given after Christ returns..

[visionary]

Jill as Far as I see it in my studies with my Pastor the promises that they and we hope in yet many never saw... Will be given after Christ returns..after??? as in when we will have earth returned to the garden of eden state?

When does God take away our sins?? On the Day of Atonement, when the sanctuary [the temple - your mind] is cleansed.
Romans 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The covenant of Christ that is confirmed by His blood was the Mount Sinai covenant..

Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

By becoming the mediator rather than the Levi ministry, by becoming the mediator by his offering for sin, rather than the sacrifice of sheep and goats...

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
For He is able to perform what lambs and sheep can not, He is able to perform what Levi ministry can not....

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

This covenant will happen on the Day of Atonement... just like wedding vows...the two shall become one...united in Yeshua...

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[Beth-el girl]

after??? as in when we will have earth returned to the garden of eden state?

When does God take away our sins?? On the Day of Atonement, when the sanctuary [the temple - your mind] is cleansed.


The covenant of Christ that is confirmed by His blood was the Mount Sinai covenant..



By becoming the mediator rather than the Levi ministry, by becoming the mediator by his offering for sin, rather than the sacrifice of sheep and goats...


For He is able to perform what lambs and sheep can not, He is able to perform what Levi ministry can not....



This covenant will happen on the Day of Atonement... just like wedding vows...the two shall become one...united in Yeshua...
Right! That's the promise they recieved but never saw the end result. IMHO.

[Shimshon]

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

This covenant will happen on the Day of Atonement... just like wedding vows...the two shall become one...united in Yeshua...

Vis, does Yeshua still find fault with us? Is the offering of lambs for sin still required? Are we still living under the old covenant that he still finds fault with us? Has not the Light cast away the shadows of Temple worship? Has he not already dealt with sin?

28 so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, i will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to deliver those who are eagerly waiting for him.

I remember him saying he 'ratified' the new covenant with his blood. He 'confirmed' it, validated it, assured us it will happen. And then told us what to do in the meantime while he was away preparing a place (this preparation is our lives, when all have been made ready he will return). Yeshua and all his talmidim said; turn from sin, be blameless when he returns.


26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies.

Yes the first coming was the fulfilling of Pesach and the giving of the wedding vows. Yes when Yeshua comes back to fulfill the Day of Atonement it will be our wedding day to remain forever in union with Moshiach. YET, did they all not describe the bride as a 'spotless' lamb, a 'virgin' bride, pure holy and blameless? Does the lamb when it is sacrificed become spotless when it is slaughtered? No, it's supposed to already be a spotless lamb without defect. The brides were to keep their lamps filled with oil (Ruach). The ones who did not were left behind. Not given oil from the other virgins nor by Yeshua but told to earn it like you were supposed to, like the rest. The leason was don't waste your time sleeping in the ways of this world but wait dilligently for Yeshua to return. Keeping yourself pure and clean by the power of his Ruach he left us.

11 Since everything is going to be destroyed like this, what kind of people should you be? You should lead holy and godly lives, 12 as you wait for the Day of God and work to hasten its coming. That Day will bring on the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt from the heat; 13 but we, following along with his promise, wait for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will be at home. 14 Therefore, dear friends, as you look for these things, do everything you can to be found by him without spot or defect and at peace.

Don't go saying the new covenant is not in effect yet. When you promise your kids you will give them thier desires if they will behave, do you let them misbehave and still give them the promise? If you do your word means nothing to them and that is what your teaching them. It's like saying, "I'm not married YET so I can fool around alittle, but when I say "I DO" I am supposed to remain faithful then." Do you really believe that?

If the new covenant is "unfulfilled" and it only becomes fulfilled when Yeshua returns then when he returns, will he find anyone who is "faithful"?

[visionary]

My flesh does so easily beset me... in my own strength I can do nothing...Yet not I ...

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. So here I am looking forward to the day when the Lord will perfect in me what I can not perfect in of myself...

Hebrews 13:19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner. 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Yeshua, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Yeshua Messiah; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.It is the joyod our faith that we not look at what ourselves can do or can not do in sinful flesh but what the Lord has wroth within...
2 Corinthians 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.It is the mystery of God in plain sight and found in the Day of Atonement...
1 CORINTHIANS 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory 8: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Yeshua Messiah: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So what is all this sanctification process suppose to do for us? It is perfecting holiness in us. Perfect holiness is God’s command (1 Thess. 4:7) and purpose.

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely.

Sanctification is a process that continues during our lives as believers. Until the last generation, where those who are alive and awaiting the Lord’s return, it has been that only after death are the saints referred to as “perfect” (Heb. 12:23).

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Sanctification involves the believers in the process and a responsibility as commanded in the Bible. We are commanded to be holy; to be perfect and to present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness and purity.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 This is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God

[By Grace]

I hesitate to say anything at this point, b/c Shimshon and Vis are both such learned people, and I'm very curious to see where this goes. But I also feel I need to get my thoughts out there, so I can get some feedback on how in/accurate they may be.

I kind of agree with Vis, that "sanctification is a process." The whole promise of the new covenant is a process. Part of the promise of the new covenant is that we would all have G-d's Torah written on our hearts. Yes, I'm learning to obey from the right heart attitude rather than from a fleshly desire of doing it all myself. But I don't think that represents the fullness of what's promised in the new covenant. Once this covenant is fulfilled, we won't even have to study the written word, b/c the laws will be so thoroughly written on our hearts that we won't have any desire to ever do anything else. But as it is now, I'm still quite dependent on the words that were written on stone in order to learn what G-d expects of me.

Also, it says we won't have to teach each other, b/c we'll all know G-d so well already. I don't know about anyone else, but I definitely still need teaching.

From what I understand right now, it's a process, one that is not yet complete.

"Trusting is being confident of what we hope for, convinced about things we do not see." (Heb 11:1)

"All these people kept on trusting until they died, without receiving what had been promised. They had only seen it and welcomed it from a distance, while acknowledging that they were aliens and temporary residents on the earrth." (Heb 11:13)

It's like we're still in the desert. We've been delivered from Egypt (sin), which is part of the promise. But we've not yet experienced the fullness of that promise--we've not yet entered into the Promised Land. We're being tested: will we obey the commands of G-d? Where will we place our loyalty? Apparently, we failed the first test, b/c we received a sentence of 40 years in the desert (or in our case, nearly 2,000 years and counting) so that the old generation could be weeded out and replaced by the new generation. But this new generation will lead us into battle, a battle where we're assured of victory, so long as we've learned our lesson and persevere in our loyalty to G-d and His will.

"All of these had their merit attested because of their trusting. Nevertheless, they did not receive what had been promised, because God had planned something better that would involve us, so that only with us would they be brought to the goal." (Heb 11:39-40)

So I see evidence of the new covenant in action, but I also see that there's much more to come before the promise is complete. Yeshua is the Initiator and the Completer (12:2). He's initiated our trust, but it's not yet been completed. Right now, we're in training; we're being disciplined and strengthened through endurance. Yeshua is still mediating the new covenant.

Okay, that was longer than I thought it would be. I wouldn't be surprised if someone can find tons of holes (even though holes don't weigh much ;) ) in my thinking here, b/c I'm really not sure yet what I think. But I'm looking forward to learning more from others' thoughts...

[Shimshon]

No holes Jill,:) It is a process. But it's certainly NOT "unfulfilled" It began/birthed when YHWH first spoke to Adamah and Chavah, became a child with Noach, became an adolesant with Avraham, matured into a young man with Moshe, became a distinguished gentleman with David/Shlomo, into a wise old man who laid down his life for his children as Yeshua. And becomes a COMPLETED born again being when the end is reached and all are reserected to life.

Not ONCE did YHWH say, "don't follow what I say and you will still be my child". Noach was righteous because he BELIEVED what YHWH said would happen and what to DO regarding it. Avraham, because he BELIEVED what YHWH said would happen and BELIEVED what YHWH said to do regarding it. Moshe, because he BELIEVED what YHWH said would happen and BELIEVED what YHWH said to do regarding it. David/Shlomo, Yeshua, because they BELIEVED what YHWH had said before and BELIEVED what YHWH told them to do regarding his promise.

We are Justified by the work of Yeshua. Yes, what is his work? SANCTIFICATION of his children. We are Justifed to be Sanctified. Not JUST sanctified, nor JUST Justified. Both. He Justified us in YHWH's sight by his Sanctification of our souls. BOTH the work of Yeshua. Seen visibly in us. Because he lives his life through us. I've heard it said recently; "I don't speak for YHWH". Well, if he's not speaking through your heart, who is?

No holes Jill,:) It is a process. But it's certainly NOT "unfulfilled". It's in the 'process' of being fulfilled. But many seem to want to believe it won't be initiated till the return. But, then Yeshua will come to take the virgin bride with the oil, and the ones who waited till the end to get some are left behind.

[By Grace]

I agree that it has been initiated. That's not what I meant by "unfulfilled." I think we basically agree--it's started, but not completed.

I think I had been more heavily influenced by dispensational theology than I thought. My understanding of "covenant" was that it was something that happened at one point in history, then whatever covenant was in effect at the time defined our relationship with G-d from there on until things were changed again according to a new covenant; I understood "covenant" to be similar to "reigning power" or "system of laws", which could be changed just like when we elect a new President or move to a new state. I know most people here already knew that the new covenant was not yet completed, but something just clicked in my head yesterday, where I suddenly understood that that's the way covenants have always been. That a covenant is a promise of something that is in process. The same way G-d's covenant with Avraham was not completed upon initiation, so G-d's covenant with us is not completed at Yeshua's death and resurrection--there's more to be done.

Hole-ly thoughts today, I guess. ;)

[visionary]

Absolutely right... :thumbsup: by grace... but more than that ... we are entering into the final process... when the fulness of time shall come...Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,Just as with the first coming was a "fulness of time" so also will the shadow of things to come will be fulfilled...We are to look forward to the completion in us that the Messiah promised...Colossians 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that [B]ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.Now how can we stand perfect and complete unless we are taught...and who is our teacher??John 3:2
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.and what is the instrument of instruction from which to teach?? and where is the classroom??...Exodus 24:12
And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.Unless we receive instruction from the master.....Exodus 18:20
And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. we will misunderstand the depths and breath of instruction for every step of our walk...for the path is narrow...for many people today have thought that they were able to teach and yet they have never sat down to learn the first principles of the oracles of God...
Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.in fact I would venture to guess that they do not have a clue as to what the first principles of the oracles of God are...and until they receive the comforter who will teach and lead one into all truth... it is a jungle of misinformation out there1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.The first thing that I would advise anyone... is to seek this anointing where the Word of God is unlocked and opened before your eyes, that you may read for yourself what is true.... that way you can read and study all that is out there and have the discerning Holy Spirit lead you into all truth... Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,How would you like to not just taste the good word of God but to have it fully in you...and for you to experience the world to come.... for we do not realise how little of the life we are really living now...we do not walk on water... appear here and there....walk through walls... healing faith....and so much more... all the above gifts I believe will be common among those whose faith is more real than who we experience today.... and I believe the day is soon coming where we will be walking in that kind of faith... because of our relationship with our teacher who has instructed us in the Way. I believe that it will be realised by those who have eaten the little book...
Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.When we reach the point where we are more like the disciples and can raise the dead by faith, because we are "in Messiah Yeshua"1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Messiah Yeshua, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: "In" being the key word. How would you like to have your spirit perfect in Yeshua???Heb 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first born, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.I believe that the Lord will perfect that on Mount Sion on the Day of Atonement just like He did for Moses.... Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Messiah:

[chunkofcoal]

Could the atonement still be a process like it was in the Levitical priesthood? The High Priest offered sacrifice for himself, then his family, then the people. Is the atonement still a process, but with only one sacrifice, Yeshua, our High Priest? Family first and then the people? Hebrews 3:6 - "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." His house being "family"?

As for sanctification, in the wilderness didn't they have to be sanctified and wash their clothes before they came up to the mount? Now we wash our clothes in the blood of the Lamb.

I'm also pondering that before the Sabbath the people received a double portion of manna - bread from heaven. Yeshua is the true bread from heaven, so are we receiving our double portion now?

:groupray:

[visionary]

Could the atonement still be a process like it was in the Levitical priesthood? The High Priest offered sacrifice for himself, then his family, then the people. Is the atonement still a process, but with only one sacrifice, Yeshua, our High Priest? Family first and then the people? Hebrews 3:6 - "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." His house being "family"?

As for sanctification, in the wilderness didn't they have to be sanctified and wash their clothes before they came up to the mount? Now we wash our clothes in the blood of the Lamb.

I'm also pondering that before the Sabbath the people received a double portion of manna - bread from heaven. Yeshua is the true bread from heaven, so are we receiving our double portion now?

:groupray:I can see the experience of the Day of Atonement spread like wildfire... like the day of Pentecost where it started in the upper room and then spread out from there very shortly afterward, all on the same day... and three thousand were saved.

We know that judgment begins at the House of God... begins at Jerusalem....so yeah.. I can see what you are saying....

As far as receiving the double portion...there is nothing in the fall feasts, that I know of at this time that talks about the double portion. The two witnesses announce the start of the Feast of Trumpets.... would that be a double portion?

[Beth-el girl]

Hey Vis,
We could use you at for sabbath school any chance you live in N.E. Ohio?

[visionary]

Hey Vis,
We could use you at for sabbath school any chance you live in N.E. Ohio?Sorry ... you will just have to study for yourself and with prayer start to absorb all this ... so that you may share with others.

[Beth-el girl]

Sorry ... you will just have to study for yourself and with prayer start to absorb all this ... so that you may share with others.

Been studying for 7 yrs but still so much to learn. :thumbsup: :prayer:

[visionary]

Been studying for 7 yrs but still so much to learn. me too... 20+ years and still a bab in the woods..it starts here... :scratch: ..goes here... :bow: and revealed.. :idea: and it dawns upon my dim mind :doh: in which I rejoice in the Lord for His goodness :clap:

[Beth-el girl]

me too... 20+ years and still a bab in the woods..it starts here... :scratch: ..goes here... :bow: and revealed.. :idea: and it dawns upon my dim mind :doh: in which I rejoice in the Lord for His goodness :clap:

I agree!

[chunkofcoal]

As far as receiving the double portion...there is nothing in the fall feasts, that I know of at this time that talks about the double portion. The two witnesses announce the start of the Feast of Trumpets.... would that be a double portion?


There is also a Sabbath Rest for the people to come. But, maybe the Sabbath comes after the fall feasts. :scratch: :confused:

[visionary]

There is also a Sabbath Rest for the people to come. But, maybe the Sabbath comes after the fall feasts. :scratch: :confused:I think that would be a good place to have a rest.... six days to create and rest of the seventh... six [days]thousand years dealing with sin and rest a thousand years. IN fact I thnk it will start on simchat torah... where else would be a good place to start the study of the Word of God than at the beginning at the feet of the author and our Saviour.

Leviticus 23:33-44. The LORD said to Moses, 34. "Say to the Israelites: `On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the LORD's Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. 35. The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. 36. For seven days present offerings made to the LORD by fire, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present an offering made to the LORD by fire. It is the closing assembly; do no regular work.After all the eighth day is also considered a sabbath... this one I believe will be the sabbath of rest promised... the millinium...

Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
Matthew 13:39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Matthew 13:40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

Matthew 13:49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous.

Matthew 24:3 As Yeshua was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

When Yeshua spoke of the end of the age He was referring to an astrological age. They are "for SIGNS" which came from the Hebrew 'oth, which is from 'athah, which means to come. Signs are therefore of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. The passing from one zodiac age to another is one zodical constellation happens aproximately every 2,160 years. The sun entering the Age of Pisces [the fish] in around at 6 BC. Yeshua was born in around 3 BC. Then it will be the Age of Aquarius.

The twelve major constellations are referred to in the bible as the "Mazzaroth." It is written in Genesis 1:14 that the stars were created by God and are for signs. It is written in Numbers 2:2 that the children of Israel were to camp each one by his own banner, beside the sign of his father's house. What are these signs, and how do the signs of the Mazzaroth (Zodiac) pertain to the Twelve Tribes of Israel?

Job 38:32 anst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Aries, the lamb prepared from the foundations of the world, the unblemished sacrifice for mankind. Aries was the sign before 6 BC during the time of Abraham on. To summarize, the Age of Aries was marked in the Old Testament by the Passover lamb.

Exodus 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.We will soon be entering the Age of Aquarius....A water-bearer (Aquarius) is the next age to come, pouring out an endless supply of water.

On the eighth and final day of the feast, the high priest of Israel, in a great processional made up of priests and tens of thousands of worshipers, descended from the Temple Mount to pause briefly at the Pool of Siloam. A pitcher was filled with water, and the procession continued via a different route back to the Temple Mount. Here, in the midst of great ceremony, the high priest poured the water out of the pitcher onto the altar.

Yeshua is our endless supply of water...flowing from the throne of God.

Deuteronomy 8:7
For the LORD your God is bringing you into a good land of flowing streams and pools of water, with springs that gush forth in the valleys and hills.

2 Kings 3:20
And sure enough, the next day at about the time when the morning sacrifice was offered, water suddenly appeared! It was flowing from the direction of Edom, and soon there was water everywhere.

Isaiah 30:25
In that day, when your enemies are slaughtered, there will be streams of water flowing down every mountain and hill.

Revelation 22:1
And the angel showed me a pure river with the water of life, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

[chunkofcoal]

I've heard of the "ages" before, but I have a dumb question - why do they go backwards - Aries, Pisces, Aquarius?

[visionary]

I've heard of the "ages" before, but I have a dumb question - why do they go backwards - Aries, Pisces, Aquarius?IT has to do with the tilt of the earth and what is the sign on the horizon... called axial procession. In other words, the North Star, will not always point ot the north pole.

While the worldy zodiac does the daily horoscope... that has nothing to do with the biblical story in the stars...

When you read Ezekiel and His vision of the wheel within the wheel... the images of the beast is also the layout of the four corners of the signs in the heavens. Before there was written word, God's people studied the heavens and read within them the future. As with everything, satan gets his fingers in it and preverts it, so that what we see in magazines and newspapers is not about the story of the battle between good and evil written in the skys but some mumbo jumbo on self.

There are videos and tapes that can help one explore the stars...
http://www.atlbible.org/astronomy/biblical.htm

[By Grace]

If Yeshua is the water, and the Spirit is the oil...

Oil and water don't mix--what's up with that?

[debi b]

except for when you shake them up real hard together :D

[talmidim]

I can see the experience of the Day of Atonement spread like wildfire... like the day of Pentecost where it started in the upper room and then spread out from there very shortly afterward, all on the same day... and three thousand were saved.

We know that judgment begins at the House of God... begins at Jerusalem....so yeah.. I can see what you are saying....

As far as receiving the double portion...there is nothing in the fall feasts, that I know of at this time that talks about the double portion. The two witnesses announce the start of the Feast of Trumpets.... would that be a double portion?Hi vis, :wave:

The prophecies in Joel 2 would not be so much a double portion as it would a great increase, but they (the prophecies) are definitely connected with the fall feasts and specifically the Day of Atonement. Just a little food for thought. :)

[chunkofcoal]

Thanks Visionary! After I read your post about Aquarius it dawned (:D) on me why the disciples were supposed to find a man carrying a pitcher of water. (Mark 14:13)
Our Blessed Lord hid all kinds of little treasures and nuggets for us to find. :bow:

[visionary]

Hi vis, :wave:

The prophecies in Joel 2 would not be so much a double portion as it would a great increase, but they (the prophecies) are definitely connected with the fall feasts and specifically the Day of Atonement. Just a little food for thought. :)Joel 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion,

declare a holy fast,

call a sacred assembly. Lev 23:3 The LORD said to Moses, 24 "Say to the Israelites: 'On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.
16 Gather the people, Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


consecrate the assembly;

bring together the elders,

gather the children,

those nursing at the breast.

Let the bridegroom leave his room

and the bride her chamber. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut,

17 Let the priests, who minister before the LORD ,

weep between the temple porch and the altar.Rev 11:1 Nehemiah 8:9
And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.

Let them say, "Spare your people, O LORD .

Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn,

a byword among the nations.

Why should they say among the peoples,

'Where is their God?' "



The LORD 's Answer
18 Then the LORD will be jealous for his land
and take pity on his people.



19 The LORD will reply [a] to them:



"I am sending you grain, new wine and oil,

enough to satisfy you fully; Nehemiah 10:39
For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.

never again will I make you

an object of scorn to the nations. Isaiah 65:8
Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.


20 "I will drive the northern army far from you,

pushing it into a parched and barren land,

with its front columns going into the eastern sea

and those in the rear into the western sea. [c]

And its stench will go up;

its smell will rise."



Surely he has done great things. [d]

21 Be not afraid, O land;

be glad and rejoice.

Surely the LORD has done great things.

22 Be not afraid, O wild animals,

for the open pastures are becoming green.

The trees are bearing their fruit;

the fig tree and the vine yield their riches.

23 Be glad, O people of Zion, Deuteronomy 4:30
When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even [B]in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

rejoice in the LORD your God, Deuteronomy 8:16
Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;
for he has given you

the autumn rains in righteousness. [e] Exodus 4:8
And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign.

He sends you abundant showers, Deuteronomy 11:14
That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

both autumn and spring rains, as before. Isaiah 41:22
Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.


24 The threshing floors will be filled with grain; Jeremiah 5:24
Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.
the vats will overflow with new wine and oil. Jeremiah 23:20
The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

[talmidim]

You do have a way with His Word...

[visionary]

thread revisited

[plum]

I need to come back to this one and read it over and over. i'm afraid my brain is missing some of it! thanks for the bump!