L-rd's supper?

[Jasmine-FL]

Hi guys, :wave:
i was thinking about the L-rd's supper, it is a passover memorial is it not?
If it is, does not Exodus 12 apply?

"If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe ADONAI's Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it." (Exodus 12:48 - CJB)

Also, why don't messianic communities tell people that they ought to be circumcised to eat passover? Sure, circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, but it is a mitzvah is it not? At least to me Exodus 12:48 sounds pretty to the point about the conditions for eating it. Did I miss something? :help:

Luv,
~J~

[Henaynei]

Hi guys, :wave:
i was thinking about the L-rd's supper, it is a passover memorial is it not?
If it is, does not Exodus 12 apply? some say that it does

"If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe ADONAI's Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it." (Exodus 12:48 - CJB)

Also, why don't messianic communities tell people that they ought to be circumcised to eat passover? Sure, circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, but it is a mitzvah is it not? At least to me Exodus 12:48 sounds pretty to the point about the conditions for eating it. Did I miss something? :help:Some communities do require it, others spiritualize it as circumcision of the heart, others fear PC and being called judgemental and don't address it at all......

what do you think should be done?

[yod]

Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

[mjterry87]

Well, I personally feel that you should get it done. Just because Torah says you should, plus it shows your faith in HaShem. Although, it does not make you better than a man who is not, only the heart can do that!

[ShirChadash]

Most excellent reply, young master Michael. :)

[Sephania]

i was thinking about the L-rd's supper, it is a passover memorial is it not?




I am beginning to not see it as such, but if you only want to talk about circumcism this is not the place for me to discuss why. :)

[visionary]

The Lord made a special announcement regarding three of the feasts in which there is a demand for everyone to attend and not miss.

2 Chronicles 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

The basic meaning of the three festivals where it is mandatory for all men to appear before the temple of God are for the blessing contained within.

Pesach or Passover is known as the festival of freedom from bondage. Freedom from the bondage of the Pharoahs of our life. Through the sacrifice and blood of our Lord Yeshua on the cross, we have freedom from sin. Sin, the leaven that we are to no longer partake of.

Shavuot better known as the Feasts of Weeks or Pentecost is the festival of walking in freedom towards the promised land. At the first Pentecost people were given the Laws of God that are to govern our day to day life, as shown to Moses on Mount Sinai. This is also the time of the first fruits of the harvest of believers that received the Holy Spirit.

Sukkot or Feast of Tabernacles is the festival of fellowship and union with God, with a God with us understanding. As was illustrated in the forty years in the wilderness, with God dwelling with his people in the tabernacle and latter in the temple at Jerusalem, it is the ultimate goal of God to be with us. In the great ingathering at the end of time, where the believers are raptured as the wife of the Lamb. It is forever that God wishes to have this union with man.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread

Lev 23:4 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5 The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6 On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

Moed is the Hebrew word for appointed time, often translated as festival, but actually means appointment. Passover and The Feast of Unleavened Bread are moedim or appointed times. They are the LORD's appointed times for doing business with man. The idea of Passover as an appointed time is expressed by the words of Yeshua as he prepares to meet his own appointed time in Jerusalem. In Mathew 26:17,18, Yeshua calls this particular Passover my appointed time. Yeshua has identified the appointed time of the not only the Passover but also the Festival of Unleavened Bread as his appointed time for fulfillment. Thirty three years Yeshua lived and walked on the earth. But that year, he says that the Passover is His appointed time.

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[Jasmine-FL]

Nice posts, but back to my question: does one (if male) need to be circumcised to participate in Pessach seder? If the L-rd's supper is a pessach memorial (as it seems to indicate) then does not Exodus 12:48 apply?

[By Grace]

The way it's been explained to me is that one only needs the spiritual circ to participate. I'm not sure I agree with that, though. I think that as a person grows in Torah obs, he will also, eventually, submit to circ. And perhaps that should come before observing Pesach. That's why Zayit's proposal that the Lord's Supper was not a Pesach meal is appealing, b/c I think men should be able to participate in that even before being physically circ. But then the whole statement about staying uncirc if you come uncirc is also confusing to me. How can one stay uncirc, yet then eventually obey the Pesach mitzvot?

I don't know the answers. I hope more people will contribute to this discussion.

[yod]

I believe that the Spirit of the Law is all that concerns Adonai.

In other words, when we receive Yeshua as our Passover, we have kept the spirit (orignial intent) of the Passover. When we receive the Holy Spirit we have circumcised our hearts. Zemirah can explain this very well if you need more.

But it was made very clear in Galatians that anyone who thinks they can perfect in the flesh what the Ruach HaKodesh has done has made Messiah of no avail and fallen from grace.

Unless you were circumcised on the 8th day, you can never fulfill this commandment in your flesh.

I also believe that christians fulfill these feast days when they receive Yeshua (Passover) and turn from sin (Unleavened Bread) and are immersed and rise as a new creature (Firstfruits) and receive the Spirit (Shavuot) even though they don't realize the depth of what they are doing because of an illiteratacy of Torah.

If & when they find out the deeper signicance of the Feasts, they feel like they've been robbed.

[visionary]

I also believe that christians fulfill these feast days when they receive Yeshua (Passover) and turn from sin (Unleavened Bread) and are immersed and rise as a new creature (Firstfruits) and receive the Spirit (Shavuot) even though they don't realize the depth of what they are doing because of an illiteratacy of Torah.

If & when they find out the deeper signicance of the Feasts, they feel like they've been robbed.I agree...in all probability the "born again" christians do not realize the depth of walking in the Way is Torah and they by following the Holy Spirit convictions are already doing the Will of God. That is why more and more christians are becoming vegetarian and/or biblical clean eaters.... keeping one spouse... staying away from adultry...doing the things that are right before God...following their convictions....

I also believe that God will awaken the people to the soon fulfillment of the Fall Feasts and while they may not have all knowledge regarding the keeping of them... will be prepared by God to receive the event in their life at the appointed time....just like the unprepared/prepared crowd received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost...and they knew it not until the floods came...and I believe the final outpouring will be as astounding as it was for Paul on the way to Damascus....and many will rejoice while others will curse the light.

Haggai 2:1 In the seventh month, in the one and twentieth day of the month, came the word of the LORD by the prophet Haggai, saying, 2:9 He said, don’t worry about it….., The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

[beej7]

I agree...in all probability the "born again" christians do not realize the depth of walking in the Way is Torah and they by following the Holy Spirit convictions are already doing the Will of God. That is why more and more christians are becoming vegetarian and/or biblical clean eaters.... keeping one spouse... staying away from adultry...doing the things that are right before God...following their convictions....

I also believe that God will awaken the people to the soon fulfillment of the Fall Feasts and while they may not have all knowledge regarding the keeping of them... will be prepared by God to receive the event in their life at the appointed time....just like the unprepared/prepared crowd received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost...and they knew it not until the floods came...and I believe the final outpouring will be as astounding as it was for Paul on the way to Damascus....and many will rejoice while others will curse the light.

:thumbsup: Very nicely said.

Beej