Help!!!

[talmidim]

I am doing a study on the Hebrew Alephbet. I need to find the first occurance in scripture of all 22 letters and all five sofit forms. These can occur anywhere in a word (except the sofit form obviously).

I then need to find the first occurance in scripture of words that start with all 22 letters.

I cannot do this with the software that I am using and I need this accomplished quickly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Talmidah]

I don't understand your question...

[shmuel]

I have been told Zeph 3:8.

S

[talmidim]

Ok, I'll try to rephrase my problem.

I need to find the first occurance (chapter, verse and word) of Aleph in scripture. Then I need to find Beyt, Gimel, Dalet etc.

For instance, I have found Beyt, Resh, Aleph, Shin, Yud and Tav in Gen 1:1 in the word b'rashyt "in the beginning" ( בראשׁית ). I need to verify the first occurance of the rest of the Hebrew letters in order, in scripture.



Next I need to locate the first occurance in scripture (chapter, verse and word) of all Hebrew letters that begin a word. In this example we have Beyt as the start of a word (b'rashyt). Where in scripture is the first occurance of the words that start with Aleph, Gimel, Dalet etc.?

I am currently doing this by hand (or eye as the case may be) but I need to know if there is anyone that has already done this research or if there is a program that will do searches like this. I am using e-Sword and it will not do what I need (or I don't know how to make it do this). Anyway, I need to accomplish this fairly quickly as this is a small part of a larger study that I am supposed to present soon. This also needs to be without errors which is why I am seeking to verify my work by computer search.

Thanks for your help...

[talmidim]

Bump

[Sephania]

So the alphabetical order of the word istn' important, just the first letter?

[Sephania]

Can you read hebrew, even just the letters? perhaps reading through a hebrew bible will help?

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm

[Sephania]

Or are you talking about something like Psalm 119?

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt26b9.htm

[talmidim]

Shalom Zayit, :wave:

Thanks for answering. I am trying to isolate the "first use" of Hebrew letters and "first use" of words that begin with Hebrew letters in scripture. I do not read Hebrew, but this is a great way to learn the AlephBeyt. :thumbsup:

I have been tracking down the first occurance of a letter or a word that starts with a letter, but it does me little benefit to find the letter if I do not know what the word means or how it is used grammatically. I am afraid that I have bitten off more than I can chew. On the other hand, I am learning a lot and that is a part of the master plan. :D

I am certain that I am not the first person to isolate the "first use" of Hebrew letters in scripture. I just don't know where to look for this information and don't know the language well enough to do this on my own. :scratch: Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Sephania]

DebiB might be alot more use than I can be. As well as S'muel, koilas, perhaps you could PM them as it seems this is urgent for you.

did you take a look at the 119 Psalm on that link, it shows you how each section is started with the letters in alef-bet order., But it probably isnt' the first instance, but its the only one I know of in all one chapter.

:) Sorry I couldnt' be of more help :(

[shmuel]

I misunderstood. I thought what was wanted was one verse with all 22 leters plus final forms, like what you would use for testing a font. For anything else, I would have to visually search.

S

[Sephania]

In the common form of acrostic found in Old Testament Poetry, each line or stanza begins with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet in order. This literary form may have been intended as an aid to memory, but more likely it was a poetic way of saying that a total coverage of the subject was being offered -- as we would say, 'from A to Z.' Acrostics occur in Psalms 111 and 112, where each letter begins a line; in Psalms 25, 34, and 145, where each letter begins a half-verse; in Psalm 37, Proverbs 31:10-31, and Lamentations 1, 2, and 4, where each letter begins a whole verse; and in Lamentations 3, where each letter begins three verses. Psalm 119 is the most elaborate demonstration of the acrostic method where, in each section of eight verses, the same opening letter is used, and the twenty-two sections of the psalm move through the Hebrew alphabet, letter after letter. --J.A. Motyer, "Acrostic," in The New International Dictionary of the Bible (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1987), p. 12.

We give below one example. In Proverbs 31:10-31 the initial letters of each verse go through the Hebrew alphabet in order. Hebrew is written from right to left, so the first letter on the right is the intial letter in each verse.In the English translation, we put in red the English word that represents the initial Hebrew word in each verse. Sometimes it is very helpful for the student to know that a certain word is used in the Hebrew text mainly for poetic reasons.

The Excellent Wife (http://the%20excellent%20wife/)

Alefאֵשֶׁת־חַיִל מִי יִמְצָא וְרָחֹק מִפְּנִינִים מִכְרָהּ׃10
A worthy woman who can find? For her price is far above rubies.

Betבָּטַח בָּהּ לֵב בַּעְלָהּ וְשָׁלָל לֹא יֶחְסָר׃11
The heart of her husband trusteth in her, And he shall have no lack of gain.


Gimmel 12גְּמָלַתְהוּ טֹוב וְלֹא־רָע כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיה׃
She doeth him good and not evil all the days of her life.


http://www.bible-researcher.com/acrostics.html

[talmidim]

I misunderstood. I thought what was wanted was one verse with all 22 leters plus final forms, like what you would use for testing a font. For anything else, I would have to visually search.

SHi shmuel, :wave:
Sorry I meant to respond sooner. My wife is ill and I haven't been able to get to the computer as often as I would have liked. Thanks for the tip though. It is one I will file away for later use.

[talmidim]

In the common form of acrostic found in Old Testament Poetry, each line or stanza begins with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet in order. This literary form may have been intended as an aid to memory, but more likely it was a poetic way of saying that a total coverage of the subject was being offered -- as we would say, 'from A to Z.' Acrostics occur in Psalms 111 and 112, where each letter begins a line; in Psalms 25, 34, and 145, where each letter begins a half-verse; in Psalm 37, Proverbs 31:10-31, and Lamentations 1, 2, and 4, where each letter begins a whole verse; and in Lamentations 3, where each letter begins three verses. Psalm 119 is the most elaborate demonstration of the acrostic method where, in each section of eight verses, the same opening letter is used, and the twenty-two sections of the psalm move through the Hebrew alphabet, letter after letter. --J.A. Motyer, "Acrostic," in The New International Dictionary of the Bible (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1987), p. 12.

We give below one example. In Proverbs 31:10-31 the initial letters of each verse go through the Hebrew alphabet in order. Hebrew is written from right to left, so the first letter on the right is the intial letter in each verse.In the English translation, we put in red the English word that represents the initial Hebrew word in each verse. Sometimes it is very helpful for the student to know that a certain word is used in the Hebrew text mainly for poetic reasons.

The Excellent Wife (http://the%20excellent%20wife/)

Alefאֵשֶׁת־חַיִל מִי יִמְצָא וְרָחֹק מִפְּנִינִים מִכְרָהּ׃10
A worthy woman who can find? For her price is far above rubies.

Betבָּטַח בָּהּ לֵב בַּעְלָהּ וְשָׁלָל לֹא יֶחְסָר׃11
The heart of her husband trusteth in her, And he shall have no lack of gain.


Gimmel 12גְּמָלַתְהוּ טֹוב וְלֹא־רָע כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיה׃
She doeth him good and not evil all the days of her life.


http://www.bible-researcher.com/acrostics.html Shalom Zayit, :wave:

This is a great link! :thumbsup: Yes I have studied acrostic verses including those in Lamentations, Proverbs and Psalms. While this information is useful for my overall study, it does not address the "first use" of a letter or word in scripture. I really need this information. If you think of anything else, please let me know.

TODAH!

[debi b]

I can help you here. It would require a bit of time tho. What is your time frame?

[debi b]

a Bereshit [Genesis] 1:1 tyvarB

B Bereshit [Genesis] 1:1 tyvarB


G Bereshit [Genesis] 1:16 ~yldGh this is a masculine plural noun with a definite article

16 And God made two great ~yldGh lights; the large light to rule the day, and the small light to rule the night; and he made the stars.

Is this kinda what you are looking for?

[Sephania]

I am doing a study on the Hebrew Alephbet. I need to find the first occurance in scripture of all 22 letters and all five sofit forms. These can occur anywhere in a word (except the sofit form obviously).

Anywhere...........
Ok, First occurance of

Alef Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית
Bet - Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית

Gimel - Genesis 1:16 fifth word in, Gadowl ( means great) הַגְּדֹ
Dalet - Genesis 1:4 fifth word - vayavdel - (divided) וַיַּבְדֵּל


I then need to find the first occurance in scripture of words that start with all 22 letters.


Start with:
Alef - Genesis 1:1 Elohim אֱלֹהִים
Bet - Genesis 1:1 Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית

Gimel - Gen 2:8 Gan ( garden) גַּן


Ok, if I have this correct then I will show you how you can finish it. You will need to use these links and have MS WORD on your pc.

Go here to the JPS http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm

That page copy and paste into a word doc. then using your 'find' feature in the word document, first go to the page in Genesis and find the letter you are looking for ( remember that the verses are numbered in hebrew using the letter for each number. Thus verse one is numbered Alef, etc) . Now copy that one letter and then paste it into your document 'find' feature and look for the first occurance. Now to figure what that word is transliterated go to this site.

http://www.levsoftware.com/verses.htm (http://www.levsoftware.com/verses.htm)

Make sure you key in the right book chapter and verse where you found the letter and click GO and it will show you the hebrew, and English and transliterated word. Find the word ( look for the sounding if possible ) and then go here http://bible.crosswalk.com/ (http://bible.crosswalk.com/) and put in the book,chapter, verse and select using the KJV with strongs numbers Bible and then click on the word you think it is. It will take you to the hebrew for verification of the english word you think it is.

This works for the beginning of the words to, but you will have to search a little further, using more chapters though, for example I had to go to chapter 2 to find a word starting with gimel .

I do hope this helps you, otherwise I am stymied. :sorry:

[talmidim]

Zayit, this appears to be EXACTLY what I am looking for. THIS IS GREAT! Thank you so very much.

debi b, I think that your information is the next step in my studies, but for the time being it is simply over my head. I want to thank you and shmuel and Talmidah for responding to my needs. The information that Zayit provided will help my study along greatly. When I am finished, I will send a copy to you all so that you can see what I am up to and perhaps (if you are so inclined) critique my thoughts.

Once again, thanks to one and all. I believe the word is todah.

b'Shalom
talmidim

[Sephania]

Baruch HaShem!
You are most welcome talmidim, I am joyed that I finally got it! :clap: I anxiously await your results.

Shalom
~Zayit :)

[talmidim]

Baruch HaShem! :bow:

Shalom Zayit!,

Thank you for your help. I am still having a little trouble though, and have a few questions if you don't mind. The next letter I searched for was Dalet and I found it in Genesis 1:4 in the word:
וַיַּבְדֵּל

My first problem is this: The KJV w/Strong's does not appear to be extensive enough (much like my understanding of Hebrew) to contain all the words I find. Here is a representation of my findings at http://www.levsoftware.com/verses.htm The Dalet I found is in the highlighted word:

Hebrew
וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאוֹר, כִּי-טוֹב; וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ.
Translit
va.yar e.lo.him et-ha.or ki-tov va.yav.del e.lo.him bein ha.or u.vein ha.kho.shekh:

English
And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

The Dalet-Lamed sound was easy to find in the transliterated verse, but not so in the English.

Crosswalk yielded:
Ge 1:4 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=ge+1:4&version=str&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) And God (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0430&version=kjv) saw (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07200&version=kjv) * (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0853&version=kjv) the light, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0216&version=kjv) that (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03588&version=kjv) it was good: (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02896&version=kjv) and God (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0430&version=kjv) divided (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0914&version=kjv) * (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0996&version=kjv) the light (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0216&version=kjv) from (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0996&version=kjv) the darkness. (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02822&version=kjv)

Deducing the likely position within the verse and testing for both "that" and "good" with no positive results, I then tried to put the Hebrew word together by using verse context and letter meanings:
----------- Proto-Hebrew --------------
Name ----- Pictograph ------- Definitions
Vav ------ Tent peg --------- add, secure, hook
Yud ------ Closed Hand ------ work, throw, grasp, worship
Bet/Vet -- Tent Floor Plan---- house, family in(to)
Dalet ----- Tent Door -------- movment, hang, enter
Lamed ---- Shepherd's Staff - teach, yoke, toward, bind



I decided that the inferred meaning of "it was" or perhaps "was" in the English fell within acceptable bounds for this verse (without typing out the pretzel logic that led me to this conclusion).

These are very difficult concepts for me and my monolinguistic brain. Am I doing something wrong? If I am correct, then I need a much more comprehensive referrence than the KJV w/Strong's #s.

Thanks for your patience with all of this. I really appreciate your help.

[shmuel]

Vayyavdel is 3rd person imperfect hifil with vav consecutive from the root bet-dalet-lamed. It means "(he) divided".

Strongs generally has the base or lexical form of a word. It does not include the conjugated/inflected forms. Solution learn Hebrew.

S

[shmuel]

Although the alef-bet was derived from pictographs, it is the sound of the letters that is important not the original meaning of the pictographs.

Your time would be much better spent learning Hebrew grammar and basic vocabulary.

S

[talmidim]

Solution learn Hebrew.

SHey shmuel, :wave:

I was afraid of that. :D Not really. I am trying to learn my Aleph, Beyt, Gimmels, but progress is slow. Understandable I would think. Anyway, I need this material in order to finish my study on the Hebrew letters. Any good suggestions where I might locate this information? I think learning Hebrew overnight is (a little :cool: ) beyond my current skill level.

Thanks!

[Sephania]

Baruch HaShem! :bow:

Shalom Zayit!,

Thank you for your help. I am still having a little trouble though, and have a few questions if you don't mind. The next letter I searched for was Dalet and I found it in Genesis 1:4 in the word:
וַיַּבְדֵּל

My first problem is this: The KJV w/Strong's does not appear to be extensive enough (much like my understanding of Hebrew) to contain all the words I find. Here is a representation of my findings at http://www.levsoftware.com/verses.htm The Dalet I found is in the highlighted word:

Hebrew
וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאוֹר, כִּי-טוֹב; וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ.
Translit
va.yar e.lo.him et-ha.or ki-tov va.yav.del e.lo.him bein ha.or u.vein ha.kho.shekh:

English
And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

The Dalet-Lamed sound was easy to find in the transliterated verse, but not so in the English.

Crosswalk yielded:
Ge 1:4 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=ge+1:4&version=str&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) And God (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0430&version=kjv) saw (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07200&version=kjv) * (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0853&version=kjv) the light, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0216&version=kjv) that (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03588&version=kjv) it was good: (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02896&version=kjv) and God (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0430&version=kjv) divided (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0914&version=kjv) * (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0996&version=kjv) the light (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0216&version=kjv) from (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0996&version=kjv) the darkness. (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02822&version=kjv)

Deducing the likely position within the verse and testing for both "that" and "good" with no positive results, I then tried to put the Hebrew word together by using verse context and letter meanings:
----------- Proto-Hebrew --------------
Name ----- Pictograph ------- Definitions
Vav ------ Tent peg --------- add, secure, hook
Yud ------ Closed Hand ------ work, throw, grasp, worship
Bet/Vet -- Tent Floor Plan---- house, family in(to)
Dalet ----- Tent Door -------- movment, hang, enter
Lamed ---- Shepherd's Staff - teach, yoke, toward, bind



I decided that the inferred meaning of "it was" or perhaps "was" in the English fell within acceptable bounds for this verse (without typing out the pretzel logic that led me to this conclusion).

These are very difficult concepts for me and my monolinguistic brain. Am I doing something wrong? If I am correct, then I need a much more comprehensive referrence than the KJV w/Strong's #s.

Thanks for your patience with all of this. I really appreciate your help.

I already did that one for you

Anywhere...........
Ok, First occurance of

Alef Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית
Bet - Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית

Gimel - Genesis 1:16 fifth word in, Gadowl ( means great) הַגְּדֹ
Dalet - Genesis 1:4 fifth word - vayavdel - (divided) וַיַּבְדֵּל

[talmidim]

I already did that one for you

Anywhere...........
Ok, First occurance of

Alef Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית
Bet - Genesis 1:1 first word Bresheet בְּרֵאשִׁית

Gimel - Genesis 1:16 fifth word in, Gadowl ( means great) הַגְּדֹ
Dalet - Genesis 1:4 fifth word - vayavdel - (divided) וַיַּבְדֵּל

OOPS... This is soooo embarassing. I was reading in the wrong direction. :blush:

Thanks

[debi b]

May I ask....

Are you trying to learn the alphabet this way?

Was this your idea or was it an assignment?

What is the goal of this project?

[talmidim]

May I ask....

Are you trying to learn the alphabet this way?

Was this your idea or was it an assignment?

What is the goal of this project?Shalom debi b! :wave:

Of course you can ask. Sorry I haven't answered sooner.

This is an entirely amateur enterprise of my own choosing and yes, I am learning Hebrew as I go. I undertook this study because I believe that there are themes in scripture that correspond to the definitions of the individual Hebrew letters. I am tracing the Proto-Hebraic, Ancient and Modern Hebrew letters etymologies, locating "first use" words, "majority use" words, root words, etc. in order to verify scriptural usage and by extension, an inferred scriptural theme for each letter. I realize that this has been done before (Chaballah) but for this purpose, I am more interested in the etymology and the plainer meanings than the more esoteric conclusions of the sages.

In my quest for themes, I am looking at the acrostic, but I am not stopping there. I am also looking at multiple occurrences of words in scripture (much like Dr. Gary Stearman's and Dr. J.R. Church's study of the word "Mystery" in the Brit Chadashah) and at notable themes such as the sacred calander. As you might imagine, it has been slow going.

During the course of this study, I had been sharing my research with my Messianic Rabbi (a Conservative with an Orthodox education and a Phd published eight times over) and letting him critique my work. You can imagine my surprise when he asked me to present a teaching to the congregation! He thought that I could simplify it and just give an analysis of one of the word/theme studies as a means of whetting their collective appetite for learning Hebrew. I hope this explains the rush. The "first use" research is incomplete and I have been relying upon the unsubstanciated work of others up to this point.

As an aside, I have always been fascinated with the relationship between the tower of Babel and the day of Pentecost after the resurrection. I think that there is a deeper meaning to those two events that has to do with the Hebrew language. I personally believe that the sacred knowledge of language and writing came to us by way of Shem, remaining unpolluted even to the days of Abraham. I have nothing upon which to base that conclusion. It just seems right. Anyway, I hope my ramblings answers your questions. Thanks for showing an interest.

b'Shalom

[debi b]

He thought that I could simplify it and just give an analysis of one of the word/theme studies as a means of whetting their collective appetite for learning Hebrew.

Is it working?

[shmuel]

Talmidim

I offer advice based on my experience. If you desire to learn Hebrew, simply get on with it. The alef-bet and vowels can be learned with serious study in a week or less. Proceeding leisurely it can take several weeks. Once you know the alef-bey you can start studying out of a proper textbook. One ultimately learns Hebrew by reading Hebrew, first practice sentences made up to coincide with one's knowledge of vocabulary and grammar, then the Tanakh itself. Your Rabbi is doing you a disservice if he is not encouraging study from a standard text, even if he has a PhD. PhDs don't necessarily prove anything. I happen to have received a PhD in a hard science nearly 33 years ago. For all practical purposes I have a second PhD in chemical engineering. I published my first peer reviewed paper 35 years ago. My latest peer reviewed paper will appear in print in April. I have taught as adjunct professor at several major universities. So please, if you are serious about learning Hebrew get on with it. Buy a good text, start studying at chapter 1 page 1, do every exercise and when you get to the end of the book you will be on your way.

S

[talmidim]

Is it working?Yes!

[talmidim]

Talmidim

I offer advice based on my experience. If you desire to learn Hebrew, simply get on with it. The alef-bet and vowels can be learned with serious study in a week or less. Proceeding leisurely it can take several weeks. Once you know the alef-bey you can start studying out of a proper textbook. One ultimately learns Hebrew by reading Hebrew, first practice sentences made up to coincide with one's knowledge of vocabulary and grammar, then the Tanakh itself. Your Rabbi is doing you a disservice if he is not encouraging study from a standard text, even if he has a PhD. PhDs don't necessarily prove anything. I happen to have received a PhD in a hard science nearly 33 years ago. For all practical purposes I have a second PhD in chemical engineering. I published my first peer reviewed paper 35 years ago. My latest peer reviewed paper will appear in print in April. I have taught as adjunct professor at several major universities. So please, if you are serious about learning Hebrew get on with it. Buy a good text, start studying at chapter 1 page 1, do every exercise and when you get to the end of the book you will be on your way.

SHi again!

You are of course, correct. And I don't want you to think that my Rabbi has been encouraging me to do otherwise. I posted a little about his background so that debi b would understand why I was having him check my work. He has in fact been encouraging me to do just as you suggest. This is simply the study that I started. It is by its very nature, forcing me to learn Hebrew as I go. Thanks for the good advice, shmuel.