who is this woman? and who are the remnant?

[visionary]

Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. She flees into the wilderness for 1260 days....
Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.The next thing that is said that she is given two wings of the great eagle for her to fly into the wilderness, where she is feed and nourished for 3 1/2 years...safe from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.Then we are taken again to the wilderness and a woman is found sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast, ....

Woman is organized religious body
remnant of her seed is all that is left in the end times.

2 Kings 19:31
For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

Ezra 9:14
Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping?

Zephaniah 3:13
The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

Zechariah 8:6
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.

Zechariah 8:12
For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Dr. Shon]

Revelations 12:6 & 14 are speaking of the Jews in Israel who - I believe - are the 144, 000 who are witnesses during the tribulation.

Revelations 17:3 is speaking of nations possibly. The seven heads and ten horns represent nations/political areas - I think.

[visionary]

Revelations 12:6 & 14 are speaking of the Jews in Israel who - I believe - are the 144, 000 who are witnesses during the tribulation.

Revelations 17:3 is speaking of nations possibly. The seven heads and ten horns represent nations/political areas - I think.commonly taught too.

[Sephania]

How do you see it Vis?

[visionary]

How do you see it Vis?
At the end of Rev 12... the focus changes from the woman who flees into the wilderness to the remnant of her seed....So.... I am wondering....nothing conclusive mind you... but just want to have the commonly understood reconsidered....what happened to the woman that went into the wilderness...

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

So what is this flood that can get the woman carried away? What does it mean to be carried away?

Revelation 12:16
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Who/what is this earth that opens up her mouth and swallows up the flood?

Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Did this woman get confused as to where her salvation comes from?

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Here we are taken to the wilderness and shown a woman now sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast....Remember we after eating the little book are to prophecy again to all the nations, kindred and tongue... just how extensive is our understanding suppose to see differenctly from what we have prophecied before????

[Sephania]

I think I know where you are going, but could we side-track a moment? I went to read through 12 myself and noticed something.

The woman clothed with the sun and under her feet the moon, in verse one I always saw this as Israel, but is it the nation? Reason I am saying this is because of this prat of the verse: she screamed in agony of the labor.

Chapter 11 is speaking of the temple

And from Isaiah 66:
6 That uproar in the city, that sound from the temple, is the sound of ADONAI repaying his foes what they deserve. 7 Before going into labor, she gave birth; before her pains came, she delivered a male child. 8 Who ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Is a country born in one day? Is a nation brought forth all at once? For as soon as Tziyon went into labor, she brought forth her children. 9 "Would I let the baby break through and not be born?" asks ADONAI. "Would I, who cause the birth, shut the womb?" asks your God.

See what that says, "Before her pains came, she delivered a male child"

Contrast that with Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and about to give birth, and she screamed in the agony of labor.

[visionary]

interesting...pain before birth and the other verse says pain after birth....sounds like two different births...maybe....

Not only that the repeat of the woman fleeing into the wilderness....once without wings and the other with the help of the eagle's wings....two different fleeings...maybe tied to the two abominations in the place where it should not be...???

[Sephania]

Also Adonai brought out Israel on eagles wings during the feast of unleavened bread~~~~~~~~~~

[visionary]

Also Adonai brought out Israel on eagles wings during the feast of unleavened bread~~~~~~~~~~elaborate please??

[Sephania]

OK, after looking up the scripture I see that he may not have been referring to that exact week.

Ex:19:4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

For this is what it says before that:

1 In the third month after the people of Isra'el had left the land of Egypt, the same day they came to the Sinai Desert. 2 After setting out from Refidim and arriving at the Sinai Desert, they set up camp in the desert; there in front of the mountain, Isra'el set up camp. 3 Moshe went up to God, and ADONAI called to him from the mountain: "Here is what you are to say to the household of Ya'akov, to tell the people of Isra'el:

[visionary]

OK, after looking up the scripture I see that he may not have been referring to that exact week.

Ex:19:4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

For this is what it says before that:

1 In the third month after the people of Isra'el had left the land of Egypt, the same day they came to the Sinai Desert. 2 After setting out from Refidim and arriving at the Sinai Desert, they set up camp in the desert; there in front of the mountain, Isra'el set up camp. 3 Moshe went up to God, and ADONAI called to him from the mountain: "Here is what you are to say to the household of Ya'akov, to tell the people of Isra'el: Now this "in the third month" would put it in around June by today's calendar?

The eagle's wings bringing the people out of Egypt...if applied to Revelation's reference of eagle's wings must mean that the first flee that the woman did is not like the second where my miracles after miracles the people are taken out of Egypt... by pillar of cloud and fire...

Can you picture a group of people today being lead through the atlantic ocean to the promised land with the waters parting before them?

[Sephania]

Yes, summer months, when the fig is ripe. :)

Not sure what you are saying about the Atlantic?

[visionary]

Yes, summer months, when the fig is ripe. :)

Not sure what you are saying about the Atlantic?Just getting carried away....the sea will be turned to red blood in the last days...and the Israelites crossed the Red Sea to Mount Sinai... so in the last days could we not be crossing our own red sea [atlantic ocean... for example] to Mount Sion.

[chunkofcoal]

In Chapter 12 there is the woman - Israel -
12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nournished for a time, and times, and a half a time, from the face of the serpent."

I think this has to do with the church of Philadelphia - 3:9-10 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
(Philadelphia - from 'phileo' - brotherly love. Family!)

And the remnant -
12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

I think this has to do with the church of Smyrna -
2:9-10 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but though art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer; behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

[Sephania]

Check this out:



Isaiah 59:19 1 ADONAI's arm is not too short to save, nor is his ear too dull to hear. 2 Rather, it is your own crimes that separate you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he doesn't hear. 3 For your hands are stained with blood and your fingers with crime; your lips speak lies, your tongues utter wicked things. 4 No one sues with just cause, no one pleads honestly in court, they trust in empty words and say worthless things; they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. 5 They hatch viper eggs and spin spiderwebs; whoever eats their eggs dies, and the crushed egg hatches a snake. 6 Their webs are useless as clothing, their deeds are useless for wearing; their deeds are deeds of wickedness, their hands produce violence. 7 Their feet run to evil, they rush to shed innocent blood, their thoughts are thoughts of wickedness, their paths lead to havoc and ruin. 8 The way of shalom they do not know, their goings-about obey no law, they make devious paths for themselves; no one treading them will ever know shalom.

9 This is why justice is far from us, and righteousness doesn't catch up with us; we look for light, but see only darkness, for brightness, but we walk in gloom. 10 We grope for the wall like the blind; like people without eyes we feel our way; we stumble at noonday as if it were dusk, we are in dark places like the dead. 11 We growl, all of us, like bears and moan pitifully like doves; we look for justice, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far from us. 12 For our crimes multiply before you, our sins testify against us; for our crimes are present with us; and our sins, we know them well: 13 rebelling and denying ADONAI, turning away from following our God, talking about oppression and revolt, uttering lies which our hearts have conceived. 14 Thus justice is repelled, righteousness stands apart, at a distance; for truth stumbles in the public court, and uprightness cannot enter. 15 Honesty is lacking, he who leaves evil becomes a target. ADONAI saw it, and it displeased him that there was no justice. 16 He saw that there was no one, was amazed that no one interceded. Therefore his own arm brought him salvation, and his own righteousness sustained him. 17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate, salvation as a helmet on his head; he clothed himself with garments of vengeance and wrapped himself in a mantle of zeal. 18 He repays according to their deeds - fury to his foes, reprisal to his enemies; to the coastlands he will repay their due; 19 in the west they will fear the name of ADONAI, and likewise, in the east, his glory. For he will come like a pent-up stream, impelled by the Spirit of ADONAI.

20 "Then a Redeemer will come to Tziyon, to those in Ya'akov who turn from rebellion." So says ADONAI. 21 "And as for me," says ADONAI, "this is my covenant with them: my Spirit, who rests on you, and my words which I put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, now or ever," says ADONAI.

KJV says:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Flood-

stream, river
stream, river
(underground) streams

[chunkofcoal]

I love this by the way! Our Father gave us a book and we are like a bunch of kids trying to put together a puzzle! :clap:
Thank you Father! :bow:

[chunkofcoal]

Would the flood from the serpent be lies? He was a liar from the beginning? We were warned about the false christs and false prophets. And we were told in Jude to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints.

[Sephania]

But he has been a liar since the beginning, to me a flood is something that comes unexpectantly and suddenly. Yeshua warned us of false deception as did Sh'aul so those that know the word won't be unexpectant of it coming.

:)

[visionary]

KJV says:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. We know that the four winds are holding them [the enemy] back until we are sealed...that is all that God is waiting for..

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Daniel 8:8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.Winds I understand to be controversies, to be concepts of God that the Devil doesn't want us to understand... like four corners of the tallits, the corners of the foundation of truth..
Daniel 7:2
Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.Sea is the multitude of people out of every nation, kindred and tongue.
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.The spirit of God is covering the world and breathing life into His Word... while the devil is restrained...
Ezekiel 37:9
Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.The gathering is happening right under the world's nose, and as it gathers, it will become noticable, just as Israel became noticable as the Jews turned the desert into a blooming land in spite of opposition.Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So the day will come when the people of God will stand out in the societies they live in... as peculiar people...Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. So who are these people, these peculiar people?Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.The chosen generation, to be the royal priesthood for the kingdom to come... The people that will judge the angels1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;The keepers of the covenant....Exodus 19:5
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:Deuteronomy 26:18
And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;And all this will happen during the striving, the time when the four winds are blowingDaniel 11:And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

[Sephania]

..........the four horns of the altar,the four beasts that sit before the throne...............

[visionary]

..........the four horns of the altar,the four beasts that sit before the throne...............The copy cat four beasts that rise out of the earth...

God has his true....
Revelation 19:4
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Man has his copy of the true...
Daniel 7:17
These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
The kingdom of this world will become the kingdom of God...
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.When we understand things as they really are... then we will be singing the new song... prophecying again to all nations, kindred and tongues.
Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.The sea being people from all nations... vs the earth where the people come out of a tribe/nation.....
Daniel 7:3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.Look where the vials of wrath come from....
Revelation 15:7
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.They must be upset with the poor representation of themselves that they see here on earth of those beasts that come out of the sea/earth...
Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.With eyes looking within... they must be full of introspect...Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.We study the great imitation of that is to come before the true returns...and maybe we should look deeper into how the whole scene will be imitated .... that if it were possible, it would deceive even the elect.

[visionary]

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Now the list of faults for the Babylon woman...

Revelation 18
1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

She has fallen twice which indicated that she was up and then down and up again. She has taken demons into her, and like the chained insane man, is raging, hurtful, and out of control.

3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. She has not only got drunk on her interpretation of scriptures but she has got all the world powerful leaders in on the delusions and they bought it, and people are making big bucks off it.

It is a complete system in itself, and then the doors will be closed to all who will not co-operate. No buying or selling unless you have the mark.

[visionary]

bump should we really be satisfied with what we already think we know... or should we continue to study to learn more ....