pub/street ministry, is it fund raising?

[SonOfThunder]

Hi,

Is shaking a wooden box around pubs or standing behind a small table with the same wooden box in the streets a ministry or a fund raiser predominantly?

My name is James, this is my first post in this area after visiting the local Salvation Army church for 2 weeks.

I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses until the age of 23 and left that just over a year ago now to follow Jesus rather than a false religion.

At first I attended a Baptist church and posted heaps in the Baptist forum, two weeks ago I attended the local Salvation Army church and listened to some impressive figures of fund raising last week and got to learn how this money was raised.

After the service I went to talk to the man who had the street/pub ministry and asked him what he did in that. He said that the local pubs/clubs allow The Salvation Army in on peek times (Friday night) he is not allowed to pressure people but shake his wodden box and if people respond he takes the money. If they want to talk this is where the opportunity comes to minister.
He explained that few talk, but over the years he has been able to share about Jesus Christ with many. Likewise on the street he sits behind a small table and the same 'no pressure' tactics apply.

The work of The salvation Army is loved by the people here, it has a NAME that is good and people give freely.

If we were to line up every church behind tables with wooden boxes or send them into the pubs shaking the box for donations I doubt that people would dig deep.

Has this become a charity rather than a ministry?
Is it revenue raising rather than ............


MAT 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
MAT 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Nice to meet you all :wave:


James

[something from the fridge]

hrmmmmm, that's a tough one.

I suppose it is the pub patrons decision as to whether they give or not. But the thing that concerns me is that people think they are giving to the charity work and not a church group who wants a new projector or something.

similar questions could be rasied about the youth group i lead. it is mainly a fun, run a muck type of thing. Is it just a social activity or is it ministry. I look on it as being a lead in to ministry. It provides a more friendly connection to the church, and gives the person the opportunity to decide if they want to find out more about why the person is doing it or not.

[Evangelina]

I wonder about this too... not in a criticising/judgmental kinda way but just... not entirely sure that it feels 'right' to me. But I don't feel God has spoken to me one way or another on the issue, except to encourage me to consider OTHER ways for us to minister to the community around us.

[Andy Broadley]

Ministry!!


Absolutely 100%, without doubt or question. True, there is little doubt that many Corps rely on the funds generated for their very survival, but first and foremost, the idea is to get the 'War Cry' into as many hands as possible.

I was a Herald for many years, both in the pubs and on the street. In both situations, only a part of the sales are to 'casual' customers. On street sales, a high level of sales are to regular customers who purchase their papers week in week out, and make it clear that you where missed if you are not able to stand for any reason. This is not about fund raising, it is Ministry, and it is about relationships, built up over years of being there every week, and often a focal point where people can bring their problems and be listened to and helped.

With pub sales, there are two main groups, the regulares and the casuals. Working mens clubs and 'local' pubs tend to generate more sales to regular customers, while town centre pubs tend to bring more sales on a casual, one off basis, although these are generalisations and by no means rigid.

Personally, I preferred the town centre pubs. Valuable though sales to the 'middle aged' 'regulars' (generalising again) in the clubs are, when I was in the 'trendy' pubs I was getting God's word into the hands of kids, who almost certainly never had any other contact with Him apart from this. You never get to see results from these contacts, you simply go in faith and leave the rest to God.

I have found that, as a rule, Salvationists who consider this to be only fundraising are usually those who do not go out there with the papers.

Flag Days? Different matter. As is the Annual Appeal, and playing Christmas Carols outside the shopping centre. However, even here, there is the unescapable fact that we are providing a visible presence. The Army is grounded on a basis of 'whosoever', and throughout it's history has always been there for those who others may not wish to know. So when we are out on the streets, we are a point of contact, our reputation and our uniform clearly say "We are here, and we want to help, come and talk to us".

IMHO, at a Corps level, this is by far and away the most important. and sadly neglected, work of all. In most Corps where the are paper sales, it tends to be carried out by a small minority. The frustration I experienced when I looked round the Corps and saw what could be achieved...

I'm getting into 'soap box' territory now, so I'm going to stop, but I want to say to anyone who could get involved in this, but for whatever reason does not, please give it some serious thought. We have to be realistic and wake up to the fact that the ONLY way we are ever gonna get through to people, is to go out to them. They are NEVER going to come to us. And if the kids are in the pub, that's where we need to be as well. And I'm convinced that Jesus would do exactly the same.

[Abiel]

For me the answer is yes. It is ministry- we want to get the word into people's hands, and yes, we need funds to provide community outreach programmes. My small Corps operates on a shoestring, yet we touch the lives of 200+ people through our mid week programme. The Army is not a church that has huge financial assets behind. The money that is raised is spent, many for the benefit of people outside the organisation- the lost who we are trying to reach.

[SonOfThunder]

Thankyou for replying.

As an ex Jehovah's Witness we were seen to be out there doing door to door work. I guess the visible presence and opportunity for people to go to you and ask or be free to seek out what Christianity is all about is the key.

My post was from curiosity, I am finding it very difficult to fit in since leaveing home.

This is a good medium for me to ask, without me offending a new church I go to. From this medium and me going to services and Bible study I hope Jehovah God gives me a place that is 'truth'


thanks again...James

[Abiel]

Bless you S of T. This is a hard time for you, but God is with you, he will not forsake you. We have a lady at our Corps who is ex-JW. I understand a little of your difficulty. Give yourself lots of time. Don't be hard on yourself. You are very welcome here.

[TheDag]

I often tend to think of it as fund raising simply because usually when I hear people mention it they actually say we need people who would be willing to go around the pubs collecting. That phrase says alot about how the church views it. I don't deny that ministry can happen when doing this tho.

[Andy Broadley]

Absolutely. Just look at the collection of people we have. When it comes to mixing different ingredients together, God makes Delia Smith look like a rank amatuer. He has taken former Salvation Army officers and placed them in the Catholic Church. He has taken a former Anglican and made her an officer. He has taken an ex Officer candidate and made him an Anglican (but who still considers himself a Salvationist).

If I've learned anything from life, it's to stop trying to understand whats going on, and simply be glad to know that God knows what He is doing.

[SonOfThunder]

Absolutely. Just look at the collection of people we have. When it comes to mixing different ingredients together, God makes Delia Smith look like a rank amatuer. He has taken former Salvation Army officers and placed them in the Catholic Church. He has taken a former Anglican and made her an officer. He has taken an ex Officer candidate and made him an Anglican (but who still considers himself a Salvationist).

If I've learned anything from life, it's to stop trying to understand whats going on, and simply be glad to know that God knows what He is doing.

Good point. The Salvation Army has a wonderful name here in Australia. One that shows the Christian spirit through and through.

How many other churches can boast such a ministry?


James