Hmmm... I won a raffle

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

What's the SA take on raffles? I never thought of this!

Basically a lady at work's husband has Alzheimers, and asked us to get involved in a raffle being done to raise money for research.

I went in and won first prize - a 2001 Cab Sav Magnum (basically it's worth around $100 - I'm going to get it valued and maybe try and sell it).

Someone asked me if Salvos could do that, and to be honest I didn't even think! :doh:

I'm not a soldier, so it's really a non-issue for me, but it did make me think.

Are raffles off limits?

Sasch

[Abiel]

In the Uk soldiers are not supposed to take part in raffles, but make a donation instead, if they wish. I have never heard of a raffle addict, but I guess we need to be consistant!

[Andy Broadley]

Years ago, whilst out on the pub round with the papers, a lady said to me that she would buy a paper if I would buy one the their raffle tickets (they were eaising money for a charity, I forget which one). I did this, and then left to get on with the round (22 pubs takes a while to get round). This led to a major disagreement with my officer in the car, who said that I should not have done this. My counter arguement was that
a) As we had left the club and I had not put my name on the ticket, I could not possibly win, so it was not a gamble.
b) By buying the ticket I had got another copy of the 'War Cry' into another pair of hands.

I think sometimes we need to remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees about the Sabbath being made for man not t'other way round.

[Abiel]

Years ago, whilst out on the pub round with the papers, a lady said to me that she would buy a paper if I would buy one the their raffle tickets (they were eaising money for a charity, I forget which one). I did this, and then left to get on with the round (22 pubs takes a while to get round). This led to a major disagreement with my officer in the car, who said that I should not have done this. My counter arguement was that
a) As we had left the club and I had not put my name on the ticket, I could not possibly win, so it was not a gamble.
b) By buying the ticket I had got another copy of the 'War Cry' into another pair of hands.

I think sometimes we need to remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees about the Sabbath being made for man not t'other way round.

I think you did the right thing- effectively, you made a donation, and blessed the person in the process, without engaging in any finger wagging.

[elm0]

Very interesting indeed.

I've been told that raffles are gambling and therefore a big no-no, but I have real issues with being told I can't give money to a good cause by buying tickets. I mean, if I was to walk up to them and say I'd rather just make a donation, how am I to know the money will be included? If people have bought tickets, the money has to be accounted for.

P.S. Sascha, what do you plan on doing with your ill-begotten money when you sell the bottle? :P

[Andy Broadley]

Perhaps buying B a 'FOOTBALL'

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Pffffft....

It's going straight to 'Sascha's European Galavant' stash...

Sasch

[TheDag]

Very interesting indeed.

I've been told that raffles are gambling and therefore a big no-no, but I have real issues with being told I can't give money to a good cause by buying tickets. I mean, if I was to walk up to them and say I'd rather just make a donation, how am I to know the money will be included? If people have bought tickets, the money has to be accounted for.

P.S. Sascha, what do you plan on doing with your ill-begotten money when you sell the bottle? :P

from being involved with these things in the past I can say most groups do have a receipt book on hand or an list that you put your details on and they send you a receipt.

[Warren Peace]

In the Uk soldiers are not supposed to take part in raffles, but make a donation instead, if they wish. I have never heard of a raffle addict, but I guess we need to be consistant!
If it's a fund raiser, then you should still be able to make a donation, and be sure to ask for an official receipt or write a cheque just to be sure the seller does not get tempted to keep the money.

If for some reason they don't take one-off donations and you really want to help the cause, then buy a ticket and give it to someone... just ask them not to tell you if they win anything ;)

And of course, my Corps Officer would likely just tell you to make the donation to Salvation Army, West Hill Citadel instead :cool:

By the way, this past Christmas I received a bottle of wine from one of our vendors... even though they know that 4 of the 7 on our team don't drink :scratch: We took the bottle to the liquor store and got $20 back for it.

Blessings...

[Andy Broadley]

Pffffft....

It's going straight to 'Sascha's European Galavant' stash...

Sasch


When she will be able to watch some of the best teams in the world play football?;)

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Not unless the coach has a tv!

And something tells me I'd rather be looking out the window at sights like Lake Como and the Matterhorn, rather than one of a thousand players called RONALDO...

:P

Sasch

[Andy Broadley]

Heresy!! Blasphemy!! And probably true.

Long way from Brisbane to Europe on a coach

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Seeing B and I are looking at marriage sometime next year (not official as yet, but talked about), someone suggested, seeing next year is 2006, going to Germany for our honeymoon...

Anyone in here possibly know why that would be?

:sigh:

Sasch

[Andy Broadley]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39594000/gif/_39594933_germany_2006_203.gif This answer your question?

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I think so...

:D

Sasch

[elm0]

How about Melbourne then?

http://www.melbourne2006.com.au/_content/article/00000605-thumbnail.gif

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Hey I'd LOVE to be a volunteer there!

Sasch

[David Brider]

Are raffles off limits?

I'm not a Salvationist myself, but my girlfriend is. Recently I was out at a charity quiz night with her and raffle tickets were being sold in support of the charity, but she refused to buy them as it counts as gambling.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with this stance - it does seem overly legalistic - but I can understand why it's taken.

David.

[Abiel]

I'm not a Salvationist myself, but my girlfriend is. Recently I was out at a charity quiz night with her and raffle tickets were being sold in support of the charity, but she refused to buy them as it counts as gambling.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with this stance - it does seem overly legalistic - but I can understand why it's taken.

David.

We do it because it's the official postion of the army. Whether we personally agree is another matter I suppose. I guess the problem is where is the line? Years ago, I helped with a tombola stall at my school fete. The prizes were not very exciting. And yet the excitement and cash the stall generated seemed out of all proportion.

[Andy Broadley]

Anyone noticed a subtle change in the wording of the Articles of War? Wheras there used to be definate and clear instruction to abstain from alcohol and nicotine, it now has a commitment to abstain from 'enslaving substances'. It is possible that this could be open to a wide degree of interpretation. For example, at what point could alcohol be defined as 'enslaving'. If alcohol is drunk on a regular basis (say daily or or several times per week) then there is a clear and viable potential for this to become enslaving. However, a glass of red wine taken with a meal once or twice a week, could be viewed in a different light (potentially).

Is anyone aware of why the wording has been changed? It wouls seem only to serve to muddy once clearly defined waters.

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

It could also be used to cover other addictions such as gambling and promiscuous sex???

Just a thought...

Sasch

[Evangelina]

Anyone noticed a subtle change in the wording of the Articles of War? Wheras there used to be definate and clear instruction to abstain from alcohol and nicotine, it now has a commitment to abstain from 'enslaving substances'. It is possible that this could be open to a wide degree of interpretation. For example, at what point could alcohol be defined as 'enslaving'. If alcohol is drunk on a regular basis (say daily or or several times per week) then there is a clear and viable potential for this to become enslaving. However, a glass of red wine taken with a meal once or twice a week, could be viewed in a different light (potentially).

Is anyone aware of why the wording has been changed? It wouls seem only to serve to muddy once clearly defined waters.

Could you post the entire text of that article/paragraph? This is the only Aussie one that I could find - I'm pretty sure this is what I signed too -

I will abstain from alcoholic drink. tobacco, the non-medical use of addictive drugs. gambling, pornography, the occult, and all else that could enslave the body or spirit.

[Abiel]

I think that was mine too ITF.

[Andy Broadley]

Could you post the entire text of that article/paragraph? This is the only Aussie one that I could find - I'm pretty sure this is what I signed too -

[color=#9f0000][b]

The bit that ITF quoted was what I signed as well. I can't reproduce the full version because I don't have it. It was at an enrollment on Sunday. The Major in charge read though what he said were the Articles of war and he clearly used the term 'enslaving substances' (and if we are going to be consistant then that could include coffee, and dare I say it, chocolate), when covering the section on abstinance.

I reckon it's been some time since we signed our AoW, so things could have changed recently. Surely Tracy could get hold of a new copy. I find this rather concerning, if it indeed the accepted wording.

[Andy Broadley]

Articles Of War For Salvation Army Soldiers



back to 'Articles Of War' (http://www1.salvationarmy.org/heritage.nsf/AllSubCategories?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=Articles_Of_War&main=Events)


The text, which is quoted below, reflects the Army's determination to remain faithful to its standards and principles. Soldiers (including officers of all ranks) are urged from time to time to re-read the solemn undertakings to which they have set their hand and to reaffirm before God their dedication to Him and to His Army, so that their life and service may always be in keeping with the Articles of War

(*nb: the paragraphs starting 'We believe...' included in this document, are the eleven historic Doctrines of The Salvation Army)

Articles of War for Salvation Army Soldiers

Having accepted Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord, and desiring to fulfil my membership of His Church on earth as a soldier of The Salvation Army, I now by God's grace enter into a sacred covenant.

I believe and will live by the truths of the word of God expressed in The Salvation Army's eleven articles of faith:

We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God; and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.

We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship.

We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead - the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory.

We believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the Divine and human natures are united, so that He is truly and properly God and truly and properly man.

We believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocency, but by their disobedience they lost their purity and happiness; and that in consequence of their fall all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has, by His suffering and death, made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will may be saved.

We believe that repentance towards God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and regeneration by the Holy Spirit are necessary to salvation.

We believe that we are justified by grace, through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ; and that he that believeth hath the witness in himself.

We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ.

We believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

I will be responsive to the Holy Spirit's work and obedient to His leading in my life, growing in grace through worship, prayer, service and the reading of the Bible. I will make the values of the Kingdom of God and not the values of the world the standard for my life.

I will uphold Christian integrity in every area of my life, allowing nothing in thought, word or deed that is unworthy, unclean, untrue, profane, dishonest or immoral.

I will maintain Christian ideals in all my relationships with others; my family and neighbours, my colleagues and fellow salvationists, those to whom and for whom I am responsible, and the wider community.

I will uphold the sanctity of marriage and of family life. I will be a faithful steward of my time and gifts, my money and possessions, my body, my mind and my spirit, knowing that I am accountable to God.

I will abstain from alcoholic drink, tobacco, the non-medical use of addictive drugs, gambling, pornography, the occult and all else that could enslave the body or spirit.

I will be faithful to the purposes for which God raised up The Salvation Army, sharing the good news of Jesus Christ, endeavouring to win others to Him, and in His name caring for the needy and the disadvantaged.

I will be actively involved, as I am able, in the life, work, worship and witness of the corps, giving as large a proportion of my income as possible to support its ministries and the worldwide work of the Army.

I will be true to the principles and practices of The Salvation Army, loyal to its leaders, and I will show the spirit of salvationism whether in times of popularity or persecution.

I now call upon all present to witness that I enter into this covenant and sign these articles of war of my own free will, convinced that the love of Christ, who died and now lives to save me, requires from me this devotion of my life to His service for the salvation of the whole world; and therefore do here declare my full determination, by God's help, to be a true soldier of The Salvation Army.



Just pulled this off the Army's website, so perhaps the good major was paraphrasing.

[Abiel]

That's what it says on my articles of war. However, I recall that at my actual enrollment, the officer made up his own ceremony based on the articles, rather than using them as written. Maybe that's what is going on.