The Waste Land

[Maximus]

Have you all ventured out into the Theology Forum lately?

Whoa! What a mess of strange, twisted vestiges of Christianity!

How does one begin to deal with it all?

How can one reach those who seem to lack even the most basic knowledge of history?

:eek:

[Orthosdoxa]

I read a saying by a monk that we should be making sure our own paths are straight before we set out to help others. I too like to help those who are caught in the horrid lies that many Protestants live in, but lately I've become more aware just how far I have to go, and I have less and less interest right now in reaching out to those who have no interest in Truth. Of course, seekers who ASK is different. But I truly think that for many super-fundies, there must come some sort of crisis in their faith before they'll be ready to listen.

All that to say, I stay out of those forums. But God bless you in your efforts. May they bear fruit.

LK

[Michael the Iconographer]

I deal with it by not going there!

[Kripost]

St Athanasuis, pray for us!
St Nicholas, pray for us!
St Constantine, pray for us!

[Maximus]

I deal with it by not going there!

That may ultimately be my solution, too.

Still, as Oblio and Prodromos can testify, we once belonged to an Evangelical/Fundamentalist board. We and the Latins were often viciously attacked, but in the end, patient exposition of the Orthodox faith bore some fruit.

A number of people at that board began to investigate the Faith, and a few even converted.

Of course, that was the work of the Holy Spirit, but He evidently used our posts to help those folks along.

[Oblio]

It is a jungle out there, have you seen the Christ and God (http://www.christianforums.com/t1214667-god-and-christ-one-and-the-same.html) thread. There is a Baptist who steadfastly declares that Jesus was created, quoting Heb 1:4 as proof :doh:

Perhaps I should take LK's advice.

[Oblio]

We and the Latins were often viciously attacked, but in the end, patient exposition of the Orthodox faith bore some fruit.


I've always wondered who of the rabid anti-Apostolics from there came over here. I especially wondered if our old nemesis Berean55 lurked or registered here under a different name. Certainly there are some current CF antagonists that fit the mold. I know that the site manager registerd here and posted but he was banned, IIRC for self promotion.

[prodromos]

Have you all ventured out into the Theology Forum lately?
You will usually see us refer to that forum and General Apologetics as General Heresies and HRU (Heresies R Us), though I often get confused as to which refers to which :D

[ExOrienteLux]

I use them interchangeably, and I tend to keep out of there, more now than I did before. I just can't take the rampant willful ignorance and stoneheadedness (is that a word? Well, it is now.) that prevails out there. I'm thinking of giving up HRU permanently, at least posting-wise. Maybe I could be an advance scout to call in our big guns from TAW and OBOB against the anti-Apostolics...

[vanshan]

If I could time travel back in time and talk to myself when I was a heterodox charismatic, I wonder what I could have said to myself that would have been persuasive? I know what helped me see past my delusions, but if my heart had not been prepared by God's great mercy, I would have never seen the truth.

I think feeling pity for those outside the Church is valuable, but direct debate can be discouraging since some are not ready to receive the gift of truth. I guess we still must be a voice in those forums so that those who are ready to receive it might be exposed to Orthodoxy. I debate there less than I have before, and try not to say anything in response to those who staunchly defend falsehood.

Basil

[Dust and Ashes]

There is a Baptist who steadfastly declares that Jesus was created, quoting Heb 1:4 as proof :doh:

Perhaps I should take LK's advice.

I find myself wanting to ask St. Nicholas to stiffen my palm and strengthen my arm. :eek:

Guess it's time I took a break as well. I haven't posted much lately but I've been lurking and it's still having the same effect on my heart. I suppose it's good to be saddened by their willful ignorance but never to be provoked to contempt. Definately time for a break. :sigh:

[countrymousenc]

I find myself wanting to ask St. Nicholas to stiffen my palm and strengthen my arm. I can relate to that. (You've made me smile this morning, earlier than I'd planned on. :) )

Seriously, I am not ready to take it on, and it is depressing to see ideas (such as the Arianism of the afore-mentioned Baptist) that would not have been expressed among even evangelicals 20-30 years ago. All respect for the historical Church has been thrown out, like the baby with the bathwater.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner, and have mercy on those who wander in darkness.

[vanshan]

I find myself wanting to ask St. Nicholas to stiffen my palm and strengthen my arm.

Don't we all feel like that? That's funny. ^_^

Basil

[Michael the Iconographer]

So not only do I need to continue to ask St. Nicholas to pray for Suz on her travels, but I also need to ask him to help us all keep our tempers under control and keep from smacking all the furry parasites (heretics) over in HRU??

[NewToLife]

I also find GT a fairly depressing forum but I find GA less so and I think its important that there is an Orthodox presence out there on that forum. I believe this because many ( but certainly not all ) of the atheist, agnostic and pagan posters are in fact earnestly seeking the truth, now many of them are indeed constantly attacking Christianity but I would point out that those areas that they often find objectionable are most often the same areas in which Orthodoxy differs heavily from the western forms of Christianity that they are familiar with. I too for instance object to the idea of a God that demands the death of His own son merely in order to satisfy his sense of justice, but then as an Orthodox I know that this is not the God that we worship. We ought to be making it clear to the non Christian posters in GA that Christianity as practised in the west is not the original or authentic form, they have often rejected a poor substitute for the truth and not the truth itself, they deserve to hear the Gospel even if it is but one voice in a cacophony of heresy ( and GA is certainly that ).

[Eusebios]

I too must admit that I generally stay away from those areas as I know two things to be true:
1. I am not in a spiritual state to be trying to clean up someone else's messy theology. (Think prayer of St. Ephriam)
2. Love is far better than polemics, which is what debates in those fora generally seem to come to.
In Xp,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Maximus]

NewtoLife: a cacophony of heresy

Now and then someone captures the very essence of something in just a few words.

You have certainly done that, NewtoLife, in your description of the Theology and General Apologetics forums.

I remember the feeling I had yesterday in visiting the Theology forums. I felt like I was drowning in a septic tank.

[Eusebios]

It is a jungle out there, have you seen the Christ and God (http://www.christianforums.com/t1214667-god-and-christ-one-and-the-same.html) thread. There is a Baptist who steadfastly declares that Jesus was created, quoting Heb 1:4 as proof :doh:

Perhaps I should take LK's advice.
Wow,
It is hard to believe the ammount of Arianism that is out there. There were two folks in that thread who were clearly so and didn't seem to care.
The thread has now, mercifully been closed.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Oblio]

The thread has now, mercifully been closed.


Thankfully !

Sometimes one has to cut off a limb that has grown gangrenous. I could just imagine if it had grown into one of those multihundred post threads rife with heresy. The problem begins when a lurker not grounded in the faith, with the Church to guide them, reads that k**p and begins to start thinking that perhaps the Holy Spirit is leading them unto a new revelation of Holy Scripture. :sigh:

[Wiffey]

Ahhh, that is why I venture only into Apostolic-friendly waters...


Honestly, the aggravation is not beneficial to my soul.

[Mary of Bethany]

I read, but rarely post in there. And sometimes I really feel that I shouldn't even read in there. It's not profitable, and since I'm not an able defender of Orthodoxy, I probably shouldn't even go there. I appreciate the efforts of Oblio and Prodromos and others (you know who you are!) who are able and willing to defend and promote our Faith in a loving and non-combative manner.

I will say that it saddens me to see any of us start threads or make comments that are obviously meant to be confrontational or combative or to put down other churches. I just feel that it can accomplish nothing good. We will not change others' hearts, only the Holy Spirit can do that, and I don't think He would use our words that are said without love towards others. Love is the only thing we have that can draw others towards Christ and His Church.

Mary

[elizabethevangeline]

Someone upthread commented that it would probably take a crisis in faith before most would be receptive to hearing something different than what they've always been taught. I can vouch for that...I was sitting in a sermon and the application point was "is there something I believe that keeps me from really knowing or loving God?" I had been struggling with the experiencing/loving God issue for at least 2 years. Right there in the service I prayed that I would repent of whatever those wrong beliefs might be. It wasn't until after I did that that I was able to read anything about Orthodoxy with anything close to an open mind. I also agree that a kind explanation of Orthodox teaching is important in those other areas, or even just an Orthodox asking thot-provoking questions that don't provoke the emotions. Tricky! Also, pick the arguements wisely, teach in simple increments, one concept at a time. And ignore some people, don't even respond to 'em. In fact, could we organize that...get everyone to never respond to certain folks til they got frustrated and stopped talking?

I'd come to the conclusion a few years ago that the evangelical church culture was rather neurotic and uninformed...but now I'm really embarrassed to see just how bad it is.

[Maximus]

I've taken today off from looking at the Theology forum.

It's too easy to make it into a career.

I've got too much work to do at my present career to get started on a new (and unpaid) one! :sorry: