Why not double your giving?

[ElElohe]

I saw this poll on another website, but it didn't include all of the options I thought it should. But it is a great question, and now I pose it to you.

[BWB]

I'm a college student with no income.

[New_Wineskin]

I checked "other" . I give what the Lord wants me to give . I usually see no reason to go beyond that .

[StevenL]

Why don't we just quit trying to teach the left hand what the right hand is doing?

[ydouxist]

Have you ever told the Lord you would give it all away?

Not intended as a flame btw,just a question.

[Surprised by joy]

Some people of great faith have given up all they possess and even given themselves to serve God. I'm not saying that everyone should do this. Everyone should give what God would have them give. However, I do respect those who have become poor for the sake of the Gospel, and who have burned themselves out in God's service.

As for me: I'm no shining example myself, so I do not mean to put anyone else down.

[ElElohe]

This is an oft misquoted portion of Scripture. It doesn't say that we have to give in secret. It was about the pharisees hypocrisy in doing things to be seen by men.

For instance, God doesn't deride the fact that the giving at the temple was done out in the open. When the poor widow put her last two coins in the offering, everyone could see, and Christ made a point to tell those that didn't!

Further, giving is listed in Scripture as a gift. How will those of us who are younger and have the gift of giving know how to engage in that if we don't have more seasoned examples in the church, that we can look up to.

Why don't we just quit trying to teach the left hand what the right hand is doing?

[jsfrk2]

I try to give a 10% to my Church and on top of that I give an offering to missions, building fund, or any evangelist or teacher that might come, But sometimes I am not always faithful:sorry:

[StevenL]

Well, lest I "misquote" it, I'll just post it: :D

Matthew ^:1 TAKE CARE not to do your good deeds publicly or before men, in order to be seen by them; otherwise you will have no reward (reserved for and awaiting you] with and from your Father Who is in heaven. 2Thus, whenever you give to the poor, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites in the synagogues and in the streets like to do, that they may be recognized and honored and praised by men. Truly I tell you, they have their reward in full already. 3But when you give to charity, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4So that your deeds of charity may be in secret; and your Father Who sees in secret will reward you openly.

JSFRK2 -- Since you are under no Scriptural obligation to do what you're talking about here anyway, you really don't have to worry about being faithful to it. :) You are not commanded to give anything to a "church" by Jesus or any of His messengers. If you believe you are, please post here the portion of Scripture containing the command. That will clear the whole matter up quickly!

[StevenL]

Now, the OP question was, Why not double your giving? My answer is....we're not dealing in percentages and we're not competing with one another in giving. Our giving, more or less, is to be directed by God in private within our own selves. We're not to pat ourselves or one another on the back in congratulation for reaching the "giving goal."

[christosdoulos]

why should I double my giving? Do I owe it to this institution that we call church?

[Andyman_1970]

What's the point of doubling my giving, does God need it?

[ElElohe]

With this I agree, and the original question was never about a percentage. Truth is our giving is lousy in America, regardless of whether or not a tithe is NT or just OT as some people like to argue over.

What did God call others to, such as the rich young ruler? Give it all up. But I never said nor did He this was for everyone; in fact the disciples retained possessions during their service as well.

Now, the OP question was, Why not double your giving? My answer is....we're not dealing in percentages and we're not competing with one another in giving. Our giving, more or less, is to be directed by God in private within our own selves. We're not to pat ourselves or one another on the back in congratulation for reaching the "giving goal."

[ElElohe]

(see http://www.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=87&page=155#150)

This is a good point; God doesn’t need our money. In the Scriptures He says, “I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. ... If I were hungry I would not tell you, for the world is mine, and all that is in it” (Psalm 50:9-12). Indeed, those of us who are the most enthusiastic about giving do well to remember this fact. But to say that God doesn’t need our money is not to say that we shouldn’t give. He doesn’t need our money, but He does want it—not for its own sake, but as a token of our total commitment to Him in response to what He has suffered for us (http://www.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=1&page=43) (Matthew 6:21). And as it turns out, giving to God is actually in our own best interest. We should give to God not because He needs it, but because we need it (Philippians 4:17).


What's the point of doubling my giving, does God need it?

[StevenL]

And you know "our giving in America is lousy" by what measure? Give us the statistics upon which you base your knowledge of American giving. I've got a sneaking suspicion that the proportion of "giving in America" is the highest in the world. Just because some say that a small percentage of church people "tithe" doesn't mean that people aren't giving. Maybe they've just rightfully rejected church law in favor of something better.

[ElElohe]

See here: http://www.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=28&page=
And our measure should not be other countries.

The average giving among Americans is 1.5% (catholic) and 2.9% (protestant). It was 3.6 during the great depression (things that make you go hmmm). Frankly I don't know if this is just to churches or total giving. My guess is that it's a person's total giving, because you can't poll a church to compare a percentage of a person's income. Churches don't know how much their parishoners make.

The IMB, the southern baptist mission board, doesn't have enough money to send out all of the their missionaries. Niether does OM, as their founder George Verwer has noted "we have the bodies to go, but not the money to send them."

I really don't know what you mean by "rejected church law in favor of something better." Jesus was addressing "church law" if I understand your phraseology in Matthew when he told the people listening that giving in order to be seen by men and for your own warm-fuzzies is the wrong motivation; you quoted the passage. Christ certainly commended sacrifical giving. Acts and the early church is filled with examples of regular and spontaneous giving(Acts 4:32 on, 2 Cor 9:7).

American's are making more and giving less. If this isn't indicative of their priorities (and poor money management), I don't know what it is. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
And you know "our giving in America is lousy" by what measure? Give us the statistics upon which you base your knowledge of American giving. I've got a sneaking suspicion that the proportion of "giving in America" is the highest in the world. Just because some say that a small percentage of church people "tithe" doesn't mean that people aren't giving. Maybe they've just rightfully rejected church law in favor of something better.

[StevenL]

If true Christians are giving like Jesus told them to, you have NO IDEA how much they are giving. And you shouldn't.

[9-iron]

What's the point of doubling my giving, does God need it?




:D NO, but man and organized religion needs a lot of money.

[New_Wineskin]

:D NO, but man and organized religion needs a lot of money.
That's why the two most sermonized topics are on giving ( to the club ) and club attendance .

[Telrunya]

why should I double my giving? Do I owe it to this institution that we call church?


1 Corinthians 9:1-11 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. My defense to those who examine me is this: Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working? Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock? I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING " God is not concerned about oxen, is He? Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops. If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

Those who do God's work are entitled to be supported by believers. God doesn't need our money. All things come from Him and all things belong to Him. You didn't have a thing when you came into this world and the only thing you'll be able to take with you when you leave is other people. We give as an act of worship to the One who provided us everything we have. Giving is the only thing God tells us to test Him on:

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

[ElElohe]

Interesting perception, as giving is usually touted as one of the least talked about and most feared topics among pastors in my experience.

That's why the two most sermonized topics are on giving ( to the club ) and club attendance .

[ElElohe]

I think you're still missing the point of the poll, and that may partly be my fault in answering your posts.

I'm not at all interested in how much a "true Christian" is giving with regards to this thread. The question is much more simple; I never intended to get into such a debate (though don't necessarily mind when it is warranted). The question is simply:

Why not double your giving?

Why not invest in eternity more than in the temporal things of this world? "Go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." Matt 19:21

If true Christians are giving like Jesus told them to, you have NO IDEA how much they are giving. And you shouldn't.

[9-iron]

Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.


I am not a Jew living under the law at the time this was written. This has nothing to do with the New Testament believer.

[9-iron]

Why not invest in eternity more than in the temporal things of this world? "Go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." Matt 19:21



I don't have a problem giving to those who are truly in need. However, most I have encountered are looking for a handout. The Bible also says basically if you don't work you don't eat. A good example is a guy I gave money to and also bought him groceries while he was in between jobs. He then takes some of the money I give him and buys cigarettes and lotto tickets. Two days later he is back in my office asking for more money. Much easier to ask for handouts than go find a job. Therefore I am always leery of who I give money to.

As far a giving more to a church, I find it extremely difficult. Why? I have noticed locally that most churches are updated and remodeling their buildings. The problem I see with that is it makes the poor intimidated to come to those churches. I mean when a place is full of marble, plush carpeting, wood-grain molding, shiny tile floors, people dressed to a T, it can be intimidated for the poor to open themselves up to being cared and ministered to.


So in these two cases doubling my giving would be a futile effort.

[ElElohe]

I am not a Jew living under the law at the time this was written. This has nothing to do with the New Testament believer.

No, none of us who are saved are living under old testement law. Jesus came to fulfill the law, but He didn't discredit the law. Some things he changed, but He cited the OT in a positive light again and again and again . . .



I don't have a problem giving to those who are truly in need. However, most I have encountered are looking for a handout. The Bible also says basically if you don't work you don't eat. A good example is a guy I gave money to and also bought him groceries while he was in between jobs. He then takes some of the money I give him and buys cigarettes and lotto tickets. Two days later he is back in my office asking for more money. Much easier to ask for handouts than go find a job. Therefore I am always leery of who I give money to. .

This is unfortunate though I assure you not isolated. But God will still reward you for your giving out of a pure heart.

When it comes to giving to the church or missions, this verse in Luke is very clear:
LK 10:5 "When you enter a house, first say, `Peace to this house.' 6 If a man of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; if not, it will return to you. 7 Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages.

There are organizations dedicated to financial accountability among non-profits. If you are skeptical about your giving, you can find research on reputible organizations there.

As far a giving more to a church, I find it extremely difficult. Why? I have noticed locally that most churches are updated and remodeling their buildings. The problem I see with that is it makes the poor intimidated to come to those churches. I mean when a place is full of marble, plush carpeting, wood-grain molding, shiny tile floors, people dressed to a T, it can be intimidated for the poor to open themselves up to being cared and ministered to.


So in these two cases doubling my giving would be a futile effort.

This is a different issue and I've discussed that in the forums before. It is a concern though, and my wife and I give less to our church than other places because the church's priorities are not as we think they should be.

Thanks for you post!

[9-iron]

It is a concern though, and my wife and I give less to our church than other places because the church's priorities are not as we think they should be.


We can walk in agreement here. I prefer to give to other places and to individuals. I feel okay about giving to organization who feed the hungry, at home or abroad.

However, I do attend a church on occasion and my children are active in Sunday school there. I feel obligated to give to this place as my family is ministered to there.

[Telrunya]

As far a giving more to a church, I find it extremely difficult. Why? I have noticed locally that most churches are updated and remodeling their buildings. The problem I see with that is it makes the poor intimidated to come to those churches. I mean when a place is full of marble, plush carpeting, wood-grain molding, shiny tile floors, people dressed to a T, it can be intimidated for the poor to open themselves up to being cared and ministered to.

You ought to come to my church LOL. We're trying to build a new church true, but thats only because the one we're in now is literally falling apart at the seams. We're not going for the marble and shiny tile floors. Our folks are not normally dressed to a T but wearing a T...shirt that is. Oh We'll have the wood grain molding but thats only because we live in the northwest and wood is cheap. Especially since many who go to my church are tradesmen and have ready contacts for building supplies.

BTW What's wrong with Aggies? It's an excellent engineering school.

[Diane_Windsor]

I'm a job seeker with no income.

[daverain]

.



Giving is great!

("It's better to give than to receive.")


However...

Sadly many Christians feel that they need to do 'beyond' what Christ has done for them. Christ has died for them on the cross, yet to them (sadly) MORE is requred.

I've got the verse:

Galations 3:10 "Anyone under the law is under a CURSE."


We CAN eat Pork

We CAN work on Saturdays


-Peace in Christ.



.

[viperblue72]

As far a giving more to a church, I find it extremely difficult. Why? I have noticed locally that most churches are updated and remodeling their buildings. The problem I see with that is it makes the poor intimidated to come to those churches. I mean when a place is full of marble, plush carpeting, wood-grain molding, shiny tile floors, people dressed to a T, it can be intimidated for the poor to open themselves up to being cared and ministered to



I attend a church in a very poor community and yet my church falls into your category. We have grown tremendously in the past few years, and it is mostly poor people that are the new members, and we also have severeal people a week who come and ask for service in the way of food and things. I dont think it really intimidates them at all.

[daverain]

.





As far a giving more to a church, I find it extremely difficult. Why? I have noticed locally that most churches are updated and remodeling their buildings. The problem I see with that is it makes the poor intimidated to come to those churches. I mean when a place is full of marble, plush carpeting, wood-grain molding, shiny tile floors, people dressed to a T, it can be intimidated for the poor to open themselves up to being cared and ministered to.





Yes.

I feel this as well.


People feel the need to 'dress up',

so,

how COULD this make one feel, who is NOT?



Yet...
------

When doing 'street ministry',

most dress in 'jeans and a t-shirt'



(Why not go to church in jeans and a t-shirt ; and do 'street-ministry' in a suit-and-tie?)



?

Also:
----

If one MUST give to a church

(keep in mind Galations 3:10, however.),


WHICH ONE??


(=Which denomination is WITHOUT ERROR?)

(Is not 'non-denominational', also a denomination?)


Helping PAUL is one thing

(Paul was an APOSTLE who had 'signs and wonders' following him, and he did NOT speak error.)


P.S. Please read my marriage-threads

(There MAY be a few 'tables to overturn', as it were.)



-Peace in Christ.


.

[ElElohe]

.

Yes.

I feel this as well.


People feel the need to 'dress up'

.

There are regional differences here. Our church is one where you won't, you just won't see anyone in a jacket, let alone a suit. However, in NE men wore suits regularly. HOWEVER, others in the same church were certainly dressed down.

Perhaps it has to do with the church's dynamics as much as anything, but as James said, don't show partiality.