Trying to understand the Methodist, Nazarene mindset?

[Wanderer977]

I grew up in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. However, after graduating seminary and enetering the "real" world, I have become more and more intrested in the Methodist/Nazarene/Wesleyan type of theology. Specifically I am intrested in why it is taught that salvation can be lost. It is simply heresy to say that in my church, but I am not sure it isn't true. I am looking to my brothers in another denomination to explain this to me if you will. Also, if you know of any good books on the topic, feel free to share. Thanks.

P.S. Obviuosly I am not very familiar with your denominational beliefes, so I apaologize if I have charecterized you incorrectly.

[seeking.IAM]

I'm no theologian-just a humble believer. But, I"ll share one Methodist's mindset. I believe in free will. God's salvation is available to those that accept the call to discipleship and confess Jesus Christ as Lord. I believe in "costly grace," not "cheap grace." That is, that saying "yes" to Jesus means obedience to His will, repentence, and changing my life. It is "costly" in that it requires something from me: living a life worthy of being a disciple. Confessing Jesus Christ as Lord is insufficient if the obedience of discipleship does not go along with it.

I believe we are creatures of free will. Every morning we have a fresh opportunity to follow God or turn away. If we turnaway repeatedly and return to a sinful life without repentance and change, God may eventually turn away from us. I believe we cannot continually live in a state of unrepentent sin and expect God's salvation.

I believe that God is willing to give us lots of second chances, but we have to do our part: repentance, confession, turning away from sin, and love our neighbors as ourselves.

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seeking.IAM

[herev]

I am now expressing my own beliefs--and to put in a disclaimer as a United Methodist Pastor: The following represent the views of herev and may or may not represent the views of The United Methodist Church as a denomination;)

I believe that salvation is by grace through faith. I believe that it is possible that once you were saved by faith, but later you turned your back on God and chose not to believe--not to have faith. If you are saved by faith and then lose that faith, then you are no longer saved. However, I do not believe that God will yank away my salvation due to my actions or lack thereof. Salvation is a gift, and God will not take it back, but, as is indicated above, free will allows us to give it back if we choose.
God bless

[ClementofRome]

And from another perspective (same disclaimer as above...my interpretation alone):

I believe that one cannot loose their salvation. I am of the opinion that once someone truly is saved and professes Christ in a real way, then there is no way that this person would change their mind. So, what this means is that those who say they once believed and then turn to unbelief, were never believers in the first place. I realize that this is baptistic/presby in flavor, but Whitefield, that great Oxford Methodist, would agree with me! :) And though herev and I may part ways on the above, I too agree that if my salvation might be in jeopardy due to my actions, I am in a world of hurt, cause I am far from perfect.

[brotherjim]

. . . I have become more and more intrested in the Methodist/Nazarene/Wesleyan type of theology. Specifically I am intrested in why it is taught that salvation can be lost. . . . I am looking to my brothers in another denomination to explain this to me if you will. . . .
Dear Wanderer,

If you "look down" on the "Wesley Parish" menu about, what is presently, 6 threads, you will see one entitled "Nazarene Doctrines and Beliefs?" Click on it, then scroll to Post #4 by me. There you'll find copied and pasted Article X of the Nazarene doctrine. If you examine especially the latter half, i.e., sub-article 14, you will find both the position of at least this denomination, along with the Scriptural references behind their stance.

Your assessment was of course correct, btw, but is by no means limited to the Wes/Naz/Meth. group of denominations. There are numerous Evangelical and charismatic denominations which also have this as part of their doctrine. In fact, most charismatic/pentecostals believe this (or at least their denominations do, e.g., A. of G.).

Realize, too, that we do not inherit eternal Life when we are born-again (contrary to widespread opinion). There would be no reason for us to. What we DO inherit is the "seal" and "hope" of its promise. But eternal Life, per se, is obtained by eating from the Tree of Life, which Tree is presently guarded--and has been since Adam and Eve's fall--in the orchard of New Jerusalem, only to again appear post-Millennium (Rev. 22:14, etc.).

God would NEVER commit Himself to man via "guarantees" of eternal Life: this is a basic and multi-reaching Kingdom principle, warned of in John 2:23-25, et al., which please see. We can never rest on past-received laurel wreaths, but we can rest (Heb. 4:9) in our Faith in Christ, if we have committed in the Law of our mind (Rom. 7) at any and all costs "not to harden [our] hearts, as in the Day of Provocation in the wilderness," which hardening virtually all who name Christ today--I'm deeply sorrowed to say, but by no means was said out of condemnational, sinful judgment--have done.

The Good News: we can also receive an assurance to abide in us, if we meet certain post-New Birth requirements (1 John 2:3-5, 1 John 4:16-18, Luke 10:25-28, etc.). God offers more Grace, and Grace upon Grace.

". . . the manifold Grace of God."

"Grace and Peace be multiplied onto you," wanderer, jim


Perhaps also kindly see my brief thread entitled "Theology," under the Soteriology sub-group of the Theology section.

[brotherjim]

P.S. Btw, someone can be both a Calvinist/Sovereign Gracer, for the most part, and believe as has been stated on this thread--again contrary to widespread opinion.

(I myself never discuss that part [Calvinism vs. Arminianism] publicly, believing such is intended for the local church and its denomination [it being potentially too divisive, and of little need if someone just teaches/preaches/discusses the Gospel].

(This post script in response to what I just read on the Soteriology section in reply to your same request over there, wanderer.)

bj