Protestant

[Dream]

Peace in Christ.

I've got a quick question for you.

I once read somewhere that Lutherans don't view themselves as Protestants, but rather as the "Reformed Catholic Church." First of all, is that true? And secondly, if it is true, what do you consider "Protestants" to be?

Thanks for the responses.

[helmikaarina]

Lutherans at least in Finland are considered as Protestants. The starting point is however in reformation of Catholic Church which began when Luther nailed his thesis in Wittenberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_churches

[pastel]

Being a Reformist is a little more accurate than the term Protestant it seems. I agree.

[Dream]

Being a Reformist is a little more accurate than the term Protestant it seems. I agree.

Then what do you consider "Protestant?"

[SPALATIN]

Then what do you consider "Protestant?"

The word Protestant comes from two words "Protesting Estates" it referred to those who followed Martin Luther and they were also known as "Evangelicals" or in German "Evangelische"


Today Lutherans are only called "Protestant" because they are still not part of the Roman Catholic Church, but they are still part of the catholic church.

[ByzantineDixie]

The word Protestant was indeed first applied to Lutherans as a result of the 1529 Diet of Speyer which reversed the decision of the 1526 Diet of the same name. The 1526 decision basically allowed the prince to determine the faith of his people. If the prince was Catholic...the people would worship as Catholics, if the prince was Lutheran, the people in the prince's domain would worship as Lutherans. Cuius regio, eius religio. The Roman Catholic forces reversed this practice of tolerance in the 1529 Diet, essentially requiring all the people to be Roman Catholic, regardless of how the princes practiced their faith. The princes responded "We protest!" and that is how the word Protestant came about.

However, many (hopefully most) Lutherans do not embrace the word. Lutherans are not Protestant and are not Roman Catholic...but are catholic and many embrace the term Evangelical Catholics, a term preferred by the Luther and the early Lutherans (the word "Lutheran" was a term applied by the Roman Catholics and originally considered a negative term). We separate ourselves from the Protestant sects which have rejected things the Church has always taught and believed such as infant baptism, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and the like.

Peace

Rose

[theologia crucis]

For me, "protestant" is kind of paradoxical. Lutherans (and Zwinglians) historically were the two groups that protested and testified at the Second Diet of Speyer in 1529. So, in my estimation, these two groups can rightly lay claim to the title historically. When other non Roman Catholic Christians use this title, they don't us it in its correct, historical sense. In the strict, historical sense, I don't mind being called a "Protestant"; in fact, I like it!

However, when the term "Protestant" is used in the sense that is generally used today, and all the theology that can be implied with it (rebaptizing, spiritual presence or memorial meal at the Lord's Supper, decision theology, etc., i.e., a theologia gloriae), I absolutely despise the term, and hate being considered one!

The same goes for "Evangelical". Historically, Lutherans were the first Christian group to call themselves this. And it is a fantastic term, and I would love being called this, because no Christian group is more Evangelical than Lutherans!!!

But, to many Lutherans, today, that term denotes the same bad theology that I listed above for "Protestant", that I cannot stand, because it is not Scriptural or historical, and so we don't liked being lumped in with them, either!

And yes, we do consider ourselves, based on Scriptural, apostolic doctrine, with great historical evidence from the ancient church fathers, the re-formed catholic church from the time of the first Pentecost. Of course, we also consider ourselves orthodox as well.

So, as I've posted before, I consider Confessional Lutheranism to be the purest part of the one, holy, apostolic, catholic, orthodox, evangelical, Christian church!

However, we are not "THE" church, "THE" church is invisible and wherever people believe Jesus Christ is their only hope of salvation. The marks of "THE" church are:

1.) possession of God's Holy Word
2.) Holy Baptism is practiced
3.) the Lord's Supper is practiced
4.) the office of the keys (absolution)
5.) the office of ministry (pastors, etc.)
6.) prayer, public praise and thanksgiving
7.) possession of the cross, i.e., experience of suffering

Clear as mud?!

[pastel]

Much clearer than mud...you guys said it much better than I ever could. I prefer to differentiate between Lutherans, Calvinists, and others, for the simple fact the denominations are very different.

[Qoheleth]

Clear as mud?!

Another awesome post. Thanks