Inauguration & American Civil Religion

[CrossWiseMag]

This is my first Inauguration since I learned about "American Civil Religion" and how it is distinct from Christianity. It puts much of the ceremony in a new perspective.

For example, the opening song, "Heal Our Land," spoke much of God, but not at all of Christ. Then I learned it was co-written by Orrin Hatch of Utah, who I believe is Mormon.

I don't have much to say about that -- except that it lends a new perspective to the religious ceremony surrounding the Inauguration to understand that Christ is often intentionally left out, even while "God" is invoked.

[ChiRho]

This is my first Inauguration since I learned about "American Civil Religion" and how it is distinct from Christianity. It puts much of the ceremony in a new perspective.

For example, the opening song, "Heal Our Land," spoke much of God, but not at all of Christ. Then I learned it was co-written by Orrin Hatch of Utah, who I believe is Mormon.

I don't have much to say about that -- except that it lends a new perspective to the religious ceremony surrounding the Inauguration to understand that Christ is often intentionally left out, even while "God" is invoked.


It's been there from the start...Jefferson, Franklin etc. This country was founded on tobacco, not Christ (maybe religious freedom but not Christ!).

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[CrossWiseMag]

It's definitely been there all along. I just didn't notice before, because I wasn't paying attention.

Even the invocation today was prayed "In your most holy name..." with no mention of Christ. What a cop-out.

[Qoheleth]

It's been there from the start...Jefferson, Franklin etc. This country was founded on tobacco, not Christ (maybe religious freedom but not Christ!).

Good point

Even the invocation today was prayed "In your most holy name..." with no mention of Christ. What a cop-out.

It would seem to deny Christ is politically correct, which would affirm ChiRho's previous statement to some degree


Q

[Qoheleth]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CrossWiseMag again."

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChiRho again."


How much Rep. do I have to spread around before I can give you guys some...sheesh


Q

[CrossWiseMag]

At the same time, I guess my new understanding of American Civil Religion and the Two Kingdoms helps me deal with the fact that "Christ" should be left out of the Inauguration ceremony. It is a left-hand Kingdom event, after all. My problem is not that Christ is left out, but that a generic "god" is invoked, outside of Christ.

[pastel]

"Those who are ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of them the Son of Man will also be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of them the Son of Man will also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." Mark 8:38 - NRSV

This country was founded on tobacco, and still is. The only difference now is the fact it is genetically altered tobacco, and genetically altered corn our country lives off of.

[CrossWiseMag]

Hmm...was that a name-it-and-claim-it benediction/speech by a Methodist minister?

At least he did mention Christ!

[CrossWiseMag]

How much Rep. do I have to spread around before I can give you guys some...sheesh

It's the nature of being Lutheran. Others might give their reputation to people with whom they disagree doctrinally -- but we're only going to give reputation to "right teachers!" The system limits us! The "Man" is keeping us down!

[Qoheleth]

but we're only going to give reputation to "right teachers!" The system limits us! The "Man" is keeping us down!

LOL Its the Big Brother thing.

Charlene, thanks, very considerate

Q

[pastel]

How much Rep. do I have to spread around before I can give you guys some...sheesh

It's the nature of being Lutheran. Others might give their reputation to people with whom they disagree doctrinally -- but we're only going to give reputation to "right teachers!" The system limits us! The "Man" is keeping us down!


Hey, what I do is give reps to the newbies coming as a welcome. That's why I can come here and rep the people I want to, usually. I hear ya on only repping people that say the right things. However, since I don't know what the newbies believe exactly, that isn't a factor. ^_^

[pastel]

LOL Its the Big Brother thing.

Charlene, thanks, very considerate

Q

:thumbsup:

[SPALATIN]

This is my first Inauguration since I learned about "American Civil Religion" and how it is distinct from Christianity. It puts much of the ceremony in a new perspective.

For example, the opening song, "Heal Our Land," spoke much of God, but not at all of Christ. Then I learned it was co-written by Orrin Hatch of Utah, who I believe is Mormon.

I don't have much to say about that -- except that it lends a new perspective to the religious ceremony surrounding the Inauguration to understand that Christ is often intentionally left out, even while "God" is invoked.

And the final Hymn was "God of our Fathers" which also doesn't mention Christ. Very solemn and reverent, but is not one that is often sang in our church. Couldn't even find it in the old TLH. Very Deist in nature.

[KagomeShuko]

And the final Hymn was "God of our Fathers" which also doesn't mention Christ. Very solemn and reverent, but is not one that is often sang in our church. Couldn't even find it in the old TLH. Very Deist in nature.
Well, our founding fathers were diests. . .not that I'm for elimiating Christ from these things! That's definitely not the case. . .just stating a fact.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Qoheleth]

Well, our founding fathers were diests. . .not that I'm for elimiating Christ from these things! That's definitely not the case. . .just stating a fact.

I would not totally disagree with this. An interesting and difficult topic to say the least, historically speaking

Q

[SPALATIN]

I would not totally disagree with this. An interesting and difficult topic to say the least, historically speaking

Q

Many consider Jefferson to have been a true Christian, but from what I understand he would often cross out words in the Bible that he didn't agree with and write his own words in their place. I don't know if anyone here can corroborate with that or not.

[Protoevangel]

Many consider Jefferson to have been a true Christian, but from what I understand he would often cross out words in the Bible that he didn't agree with and write his own words in their place. I don't know if anyone here can corroborate with that or not.http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/jefferson.html

[AngelusSax]

And the final Hymn was "God of our Fathers" which also doesn't mention Christ. Very solemn and reverent, but is not one that is often sang in our church. Couldn't even find it in the old TLH. Very Deist in nature

I don't necessarily have a problem with it. It doesn't mention Christ, true... but neither does Amazing Grace.

When we pray in his most holy name, I know it means Christ. It may not be said, but my faith is such that it is God who is still hearing the prayer in the name of Christ, for what other name is most holy?

[KagomeShuko]

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/jefferson.html
That's hardly "truly" a Christian. . .

Actually, quite disturbing. . .might as well be what the Muslims claim - believing that Jesus was a great prophet. . .:sigh:

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Tetzel]

I'm fine with them not mentioning Christ. Christ does not need the lipservice of politicians.

In fact, I'd be happier if they would leave God out of it completely when what they really are worshiping is our nation-state.

[AngelusSax]

In fact, I'd be happier if they would leave God out of it completely when what they really are worshiping is our nation-state.

I'd say for a vast majority of politicians, that's true. Bush, however... I just feel like he really is trying to do the will of the Father. He may well fail in doing that will, of course, but I get the sense that, to him at least, he's not just serving himself and the nation-state.

[pastel]

Wasn't Jefferson the one who fathered an illegitimate child with one of his slaves? He wasn't much of a Christian then. :(

[Jim47]

Hey, what I do is give reps to the newbies coming as a welcome. That's why I can come here and rep the people I want to, usually. I hear ya on only repping people that say the right things. However, since I don't know what the newbies believe exactly, that isn't a factor. ^_^

So what forum is best to visit to spread a little rep? :holy:

[AngelusSax]

Wasn't Jefferson the one who fathered an illegitimate child with one of his slaves? He wasn't much of a Christian then.

Unless I missed something, the farthest they could prove was that "a Jefferson" and not "The Thomas Jefferson" fathered the illegitimate child with a slave girl.

[KagomeShuko]

So what forum is best to visit to spread a little rep? :holy:
I go to the relaxation forums and the "official" reputation thread. It is for spreading rep. .that and the new members forum if you want to rep new members.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Tetzel]

So what forum is best to visit to spread a little rep? :holy:

Obviously it is Theologia Crucis, where the truth is fought over and wrestled with but never denied

But that puts us back to square one where we have to spread it around more. I usually go to general theology and see what's going on in the constant warfare there. Rep to those who are most correct in their arguments

[AveMaria]

And the final Hymn was "God of our Fathers" which also doesn't mention Christ. Very solemn and reverent, but is not one that is often sang in our church. Couldn't even find it in the old TLH. Very Deist in nature.

I ran across something about that hymn earlier today, which I thought y'all might find interesting. It was written in 1876 for a celebration of the centennial of the Fourth of July & the U.S. Constitution, which makes it a very cool choice for an Inauguration. From what I read, it's also the Official National Hymn - I had no idea we had one!

[Tetzel]

I'd say for a vast majority of politicians, that's true. Bush, however... I just feel like he really is trying to do the will of the Father. He may well fail in doing that will, of course, but I get the sense that, to him at least, he's not just serving himself and the nation-state.

I salute your proper and strict adherence to Commandments 4 and 8 on this issue. Sadly, I find myself unable to be so generous in my explanations of that particular neighbor's actions.

[SPALATIN]

Unless I missed something, the farthest they could prove was that "a Jefferson" and not "The Thomas Jefferson" fathered the illegitimate child with a slave girl.

It is now a well documented fact that Thomas Jefferson fathered several children with Sally Heming. Even the Jefferson family has accepted this as fact.

[AngelusSax]

It is now a well documented fact that Thomas Jefferson fathered several children with Sally Heming. Even the Jefferson family has accepted this as fact.

Ah. Well, guess I was out to lunch when this was in the news or something.

[Protoevangel]

Wasn't Jefferson the one who fathered an illegitimate child with one of his slaves? He wasn't much of a Christian then. :(I wonder which sins automatically disqualify us from being Christian. Maybe if we make a list, we can all save ourselves. ;) :D

[AngelusSax]

I wonder which sins automatically disqualify us from being Christian. Maybe if we make a list, we can all save ourselves. ;) :D

A pearl of wisdom, ladies and gents! Salvation comes not by us not sinning, but by being forgiven of the sins we do commit...

Jefferson may have fathered illegitimate children (I hate that term, because it puts a stigma on the children who had no choice in their parents' actions, and it somehow says the kids are less worthy of being legitimate people or something... ok, better not get on the soapbox), but that's hardly blaspheming the Holy Spirit... the only unforgivable sin.

[Jim47]

I wonder which sins automatically disqualify us from being Christian. Maybe if we make a list, we can all save ourselves. ;) :D

Sins against The Holy Spirit.

Mt 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.