Just a bit disturbing. . .

[KagomeShuko]

I got this in an e-mail today. . .
---------------------------
The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!!

Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?" The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.
-----------------------------------------------------
We've started a study about different religions in Sunday School and we did Muslims last Sunday. In the book it said Muslims are supposed to be completely tolerant of other religions. In fact, that they are to believe that all the religious pray to the same God. . .that Allah is also the Christian God. . .

So, yeah, I don't understand any of that stuff. . .

I personally would've have gone so far to say such a thing about the friend part. . .that's disturbing to me as well. . .

Hmmm. ..I'm just glad I'm Christian! I'm not confused about that!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Rechtgläubig]

In fact, that they are to believe that all the religious pray to the same God. . .that Allah is also the Christian God. . .

I got into a debate with some muslims on a martial art board before it disappeared. They were rock solid convinced that the Christian were Polytheists. :confused:

[KagomeShuko]

I got into a debate with some muslims on a martial art board before it disappeared. They were rock solid convinced that the Christian were Polytheists. :confused:
Confusing, but I got that here from some person when I posted my Holy Trinity study. . .that thread caused a headache and I stopped posting when it got repetative. . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Phoebe]

I have read/ heard about the fact that they are to kill the infidels. Believe it or not, it was probably in a Hal Lindsey book. I have also heard this on a news magazine program. (Like 60 Minutes)

[Qoheleth]

I got into a debate with some muslims on a martial art board before it disappeared. They were rock solid convinced that the Christian were Polytheists. :confused:

Same here, and the "militant" Muslim group of gentlemen I was speaking with said that this is even more fuel for fundamentalist terrorist groups.

[Rechtgläubig]

Same here, and the "militant" Muslim group of gentlemen I was speaking with said that this is even more fuel for fundamentalist terrorist groups.

Yeah I got that too. Also got a lot of koran anti polytheist talk...


"But for the 100th time will you just read the Creed of Athanasius...."


LOL

[GlowingFirefly]

I think I read something about this on Yahoo News.

I don't usually get e-mails like this. I only get e-mails like this if I sign up for something, which I usually don't. :)

[Jim47]

Very sad indeed that there are more muslims than Christians.

Mt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

[Zoomer]

got into a debate with some muslims on a martial art board before it disappeared. They were rock solid convinced that the Christian were Polytheists

In the Qur'an it teaches the Christians and Jews worship other "lords"....

at-Taubah: Repentance

"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!"

[pastel]

I was reading somewhere (forget where exactly) that "Allah" is an ancient moon god. They have elevated this "Allah" to be like our God the Father. The site was supposed to be a witness to Muslims for turning them to belief in Christianity.

[night2day]

We've started a study about different religions in Sunday School and we did Muslims last Sunday. In the book it said Muslims are supposed to be completely tolerant of other religions. In fact, that they are to believe that all the religious pray to the same God. . .that Allah is also the Christian God. . .

How can it be taught Muslims and Christians worship the same God when in Islam Jesus is lowered to the status of a mere prophet while Christianity teaches Jesus is worshiped as the True God and True Man, Second Person of the Holy Trinity?

[•Amadeus•]

How can it be taught Muslims and Christians worship the same God when Islam Jesus to the status of a mere prophet while Christianity teaches Jesus to be True God and True Man, Second Person of the Holy Trinity?

It is essentially correct what KagomeShuko says. This is what the Muslims are taught. Not that it is true, and they do not understand this. So don't correct Kagome, correct the Muslims. They are the ones in error.

[KagomeShuko]

It is essentially correct what KagomeShuko says. This is what the Muslims are taught. Not that it is true, and they do not understand this. So don't correct Kagome, correct the Muslims. They are the ones in error.
Exactly, it is what THEY are taught. . .er, supposedly, though. . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[night2day]

It is essentially correct what KagomeShuko says. This is what the Muslims are taught. Not that it is true, and they do not understand this. So don't correct Kagome, correct the Muslims. They are the ones in error.

Hmmmm...since it was commented on she was referring to what was being taught within the class, is it being stated I'm disallowed to question what the book itself was teaching? Why assume I was correcting the poster and not the book for what it proclaimed? Hopefully my slight corrections in my earlier post clarify what I was stating.

Be that as it may, instead of making assumptions please ask if what is written within the post is not understood.

As for what itself Islam teaches, it is taught within the Koran Jesus (who they call Isa) was a prophet, the last before Mohammed. Since it's denied Jesus' being both God and Man, hence unable to be our or anyone else's Savior, it's impossible for Christians and Muslims to even pretend to worship to the same God. The same goes for those of the Jewish faith which also totally rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior.

The book that was referred to within the original post seems to be more from a Universalist world-view -- especially given the claims "...all the religious pray to the same God..." Which is a viewpoint that is strongly at odds from even the most basic teachings of Christianity itself.

[•Amadeus•]

Hmmmm...since it was commented on she was referring to what was being taught within the class, is it being stated I'm disallowed to question what the book itself was teaching? Why assume I was correcting the poster and not the book for what it proclaimed? Hopefully my slight corrections in my earlier post clarify what I was stating.

Be that as it may, instead of making assumptions please ask if what is written within the post is not understood.

As for what itself Islam teaches, it is taught within the Koran Jesus (who they call Isa) was a prophet, the last before Mohammed. Since it's denied Jesus' being both God and Man, hence unable to be our or anyone else's Savior, it's impossible for Christians and Muslims to even pretend to worship to the same God. The same goes for those of the Jewish faith which also totally rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior.

The book that was referred to within the original post seems to be more from a Universalist world-view -- especially given the claims "...all the religious pray to the same God..." Which is a viewpoint that is strongly at odds from even the most basic teachings of Christianity itself.

You did not at all make that clear. Making clearer posts would be advisable in the future, so no one misunderstands you. No one made assumptions here.

[sculpturegirl]

I got this in an e-mail today. . .
---------------------------
The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!!



I have read that this is because Muslims are reproducing. Most Western Nations are technically "Christian" and are not having many, if any, children. I think the children are counted in these statistics. Plus, many Christian denominations only count adult members, especially ones who practise adult baptism.

I don't think that there are more Muslims in the world than Christians. But then again, it doesn't matter really.

[night2day]

You did not at all make that clear. Making clearer posts would be advisable in the future, so no one misunderstands you. No one made assumptions here.

As requested, ask if it's misunderstood or not all that clear. All that I'm asking. Otherwise responding to something not understood can be classified as assuming.

At any rate, the post had been corrected for clarification earlier. At least for the most part the incoherence on my part (hopefully) doesn't occur all too often.

[night2day]

I have read that this is because Muslims are reproducing. Most Western Nations are technically "Christian" and are not having many, if any, children. I think the children are counted in these statistics. Plus, many Christian denominations only count adult members, especially ones who practise adult baptism.

I don't think that there are more Muslims in the world than Christians. But then again, it doesn't matter really.

While Christian denominations usually count baptized members, communicants, and/or those who are "born again" within the neo evangelical sense, it should be noted Christianity itself is not a cultural religion. Nor can it ever be. The Holy Spirit works through the Gospel to bring individuals, not entire nations, to faith in Christ. Once Christianity becomes a cultural religion it is no longer a form of Christianity but reduced to a religion of do's and do not.

However, within the world of Muslims, Islam is indeed seen as a cultural religion where entire families are considered Muslim by default. When one is born in a family of Muslims, they are considered Muslim by with no say whatsoever. When a woman of another faith marries a Muslim, she's automatically viewed as changing her faith to Islam.

Christianity and Islam deeply clashes on this point. And it's one many within the Muslim world misunderstand about Christianity. For the most part, Christianity is equated with Western civilization, which is why Islam sees little difference between the Christian and the Westerner. The concept of personally being brought by grace to faith in Jesus Christ is not fully understood. Or why Christianity may influence the culture...but is not the culture itself.

Tis why Islam as a whole sees Christianity and Judaism as a threat to their faith. It has to do with their entire culture.

[SPALATIN]

While Christian denominations usually count baptized members, communicants, and/or those who are "born again" within the neo evangelical sense, it should be noted Christianity itself is not a cultural religion. Nor can it ever be. The Holy Spirit works through the Gospel to bring individuals, not entire nations, to faith in Christ, not nations. Once Christianity becomes a cultural religion it is no longer a form of Christianity but reduced to a religion of do's and do not.

However, within the world of Muslims, Islam is indeed seen as a cultural religion where entire families are considered Muslim by default. When one is born in a family of Muslims, they are considered Muslim by with no say whatsoever. When a woman of another faith marries a Muslim, she's automatically viewed as changing her faith to Islam.

Christianity and Islam deeply clashes on this point. And it's one many within the Muslim world misunderstand about Christianity. For the most part, Christianity is equated with Western civilization, which is why Islam sees little difference between the Christian and the Westerner. The concept of personally being brought by grace to faith in Jesus Christ is not fully understood. Or why Christianity may influence the culture...but is not the culture itself.

Tis why Islam as a whole sees Christianity and Judaism as a threat to their faith. It has to do with their entire culture.

The fact that Christianity is not a cultural religion is shown in the diversity of the different doctrinal positions that are held alone in America. Europe is mostly split between Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox. The US has Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian, Assembly of God/Pentecostal etc.

Each of these denominations has their separate offshoots as well. Culture may play a part in some of the offshoots like the Amish or Mennonite communities that stress law more than Gospel.


Last I heard there were almost 300 million people in the US and out of that there are about 9 million Lutherans. 5 million belong to the ELCA. 2.5-3 million in the LCMS and the rest belonging to the WELS and ELS and other offshoots.

[night2day]

The fact that Christianity is not a cultural religion is shown in the diversity of the different doctrinal positions that are held alone in America.

Unfortunately, what is true and what is believed to be true are two separate things. Many Muslims are taught, for example, that Christians are polytheists...that we worship three gods. Not one. One can only suppose Islam sees Christianity as a cultural religion merely because Islam itself is a cultural religion. Therefore having various different branches doesn't matter just as Islam itself has it's own various branches.

Islamic teaching as a whole doesn't speak of itself as a religion based on grace, through faith...but one of works which rests on the 5 pillars of Islam, where there is no assurance given of God's love and forgiveness.

Christianity at the most basic level teaches by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior from sin, death, and Hell we have complete forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

The focus on works by Islam is a stark contrast to the focus of grace, through faith in Christ within Christianity. It's that difference which many within the Muslim world fail to understand and more than likely won't be able to understand.

[Treestand]

Praise be to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit amen.
We were studying the religion of Mohammed in Bible class. They believe Jesus was the Messiah, that He was born of a virgin and was a prophet. I find it curious that if they believe Jesus was born of a virgin, how He can be anything other than the Son? If He is the Messiah, the promised one, how He can be anything other than God Himself?
Mohammediesm is a "religion of works", as we all should know, "works don't work". The simple question to ask any muslim is,"How can you ever be sure you have done enough of the right things to merit paradise"? The only honest answer is you can never be sure. How awful.
In Christ Jesus we know for a certaintity that we have been forgiven and that God has clothed us in righteousness by the blood of the Lamb. John 19:30 tells us that the full and awful price was paid. To God be the Glory!

[sculpturegirl]

Treestand- thank you for that imput. I see that you are new here- WELCOME!

[Dr. Martin Luther]

Welcome, Treestand.

:preach:

[night2day]

We were studying the religion of Mohammed in Bible class. They believe Jesus was the Messiah, that He was born of a virgin and was a prophet. I find it curious that if they believe Jesus was born of a virgin, how He can be anything other than the Son? If He is the Messiah, the promised one, how He can be anything other than God Himself?

Good question. As I understand it, the Jewish faith doesn't accept the Messiah will be God Himself either. Neither Islam nor Judaism teach the Messiah is the Savior from sin, death, and Hell, but as you stated, merely a prophet.

Even at the time of Christ the religious system in place was placed on works. Instead of the various religious laws which were meant to point to the Savior who was to come, the Lamb who would take away the sins of the world, the laws became ends unto themselves. Even though ever since the Fall it is by grace through faith an individual is saved. In the Old Testament that was by the promise of the Savior to come.

Islam, while it presents itself differently, also is a religion based on works.

Their understanding of the term "Messiah" (meaning "anointed one") and what the Messiah was actually to do apparently differs greatly. Yet without the Holy Spirit to reveal this through God's word they, sadly, won't know this.