Joining a church [Archive] - Christian Forums

SonOfThunder

12th January 2005, 01:37 AM

JMandrell

12th January 2005, 02:18 AM

I don't want to be a church basher or anything, but it seems to me like the church you are attending is not trying very hard to make you feel welcome. At my church, we are baptist, but my pastor will tell you up front that we are christians first and baptists second. Anyone who wants to learn about Jesus and enjoy worshipping him is welcome at our church whether your beliefs are strictly baptist, pentacostal, catholic, or any other.

daveleau

12th January 2005, 11:06 AM

It's now been a couple of months since I started going to the Baptist Church locally.

I realised they won't let me take communion at first, I understood I have to be a member.

Now the pastor said I have to be saved and then baptised in order to be a member when I asked about being able to take the communion as they had it last Sunday again and I wanted to take it so badly.

As yet I don't know all the beliefs and cant say without a doubt I believe in them all, it's too soon. I have been a believer all my life and love God a whole lot.

Why so many rules? why can't my love of God and recognition that Jesus died for my sins be enough?

I have been baptised before when I was 13, is anyone able to help me on the rules as I dont want to get deep with the pastor and say too much.

James

There is nothing in Scripture that says that you have to be a member of a church to take communion. It says you must be saved, period. It really ticks me off a bit when churches withhold communion wrongfully like this. You have to be saved, but you do NOT have to be the member of the church. Below is most of the Scripture regarding the Lord's Supper and there is not one mention of exclusion because of church membership. I would confront the pastor with these verses and ask him to show you why you can not take communion until you joined his church. Make him give you a Scriptural answer.

Only you know if you are saved: if you have asked Jesus to come into your heart and if you believe He is your personal saviour. As for baptism, if you were saved at the time of your baptism, then you do not have to be baptized again. The pastor can accept your membership 3 ways:
1: by letter of transfer from another church
2: by baptism in his church
3: by statement of faith which you make saying that you have been baptized and saved but have no past church membership to transfer

Check these for the requirements of church membership for the Lord's Supper:

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Gwenyfur

12th January 2005, 12:15 PM

Well in our church you don't have to be a member in order to take communion. You do however, have to be saved... ;)

As for beiing re baptized, if you were a member of another baptist church, they should be able to tranfer your membership by letter of reference.

If they are unable to do these things I'd really question joining that church. rebaptizing for membership strikes me as being along the lines of "vain repititions

Hope it all works out for you :)

Crazy Liz

12th January 2005, 01:14 PM

Most orthodox Christian churches accept baptisms in other churches, Baptists and Anabaptists with the proviso that it was on confession of faith. A few require that it have been by immersion, but I think most will accept a baptism by anotehr mode if it was on confession of faith.

However, most do not accept baptisms in unorthodox churches, such as those by Mormons and JWs.

For yourself, I think you need to begin exploring a little. You were attracted to this fundamentalist Baptist church because, as a former JW, you are used to a church with a lot of rules - a strict emphasis on holiness. Churches that are strict like that often have closed communion. Churches with open communion (many other Baptist churches, Evangelical Free, etc.) may also be expected to have fewer rules on other things, as well.

Think about whether you are ready for more freedom, or prefer to stay in a church that has a more strict view of holiness. If the rules are too strict for you, you may be able to find another church where you are more comfortable, perhaps another Baptist church, an Evangelical Free church, or some other denomination.

SonOfThunder

12th January 2005, 05:09 PM

There is nothing in Scripture that says that you have to be a member of a church to take communion. It says you must be saved, period. It really ticks me off a bit when churches withhold communion wrongfully like this. You have to be saved, but you do NOT have to be the member of the church. Below is most of the Scripture regarding the Lord's Supper and there is not one mention of exclusion because of church membership. I would confront the pastor with these verses and ask him to show you why you can not take communion until you joined his church. Make him give you a Scriptural answer.

Only you know if you are saved: if you have asked Jesus to come into your heart and if you believe He is your personal saviour. As for baptism, if you were saved at the time of your baptism, then you do not have to be baptized again. The pastor can accept your membership 3 ways:
1: by letter of transfer from another church
2: by baptism in his church
3: by statement of faith which you make saying that you have been baptized and saved but have no past church membership to transfer

Check these for the requirements of church membership for the Lord's Supper:

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Thankyou for replying.

I am not ready to face the Pastor and confront him with Scripture, always preferring to lie low and pray and listen as so much is different.

I should say at this stage that I grew up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my baptism was within that org. I left because of false teachings, and now find so mush is very different and rather than 'rock the boat' I am deciding to listne and go home and study the differences and praying.

Salvation, as I understand the concept from mainstream churches = belief in what God has done in sending his only begotton Son Jesus Christ for us all. I think also some say you have to know that Jesus is God and believe it. This is also called 'born again'.

I understand rules and being careful as I come from that myself. I think I am afraid of commitment so soon in case I raise my hand into other false teachings. May I ask if a person raises their hand and commits if they have to declare they believe all the doctrine? Also may I ask why my baptism isn't recognised by mainstream churches?

James

Crazy Liz

12th January 2005, 05:45 PM

Also may I ask why my baptism isn't recognised by mainstream churches?

James

Most mainstream churches accept baptism if it was in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Baptist and Anabaptists add a proviso that it be on confession of faith, and some Baptists require that it be by immersion.

Your church may not accept your baptism for any or all of these reasons. I don't know whether JWs say in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but if they do (as Mormons do), most mainstream churches still won't accept it because Mormons and JWs do not believe in the trinity, so when they say Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they mean something different than mainstream churches believe.

A Baptist church also would say, I think, that a JW baptism could not be on confession of faith because the person would not have confessed THE faith. But you would have to ask your church about that. In thinking about the history, it would be interesting to hear what Eastern Orthodox Christians would think about a JW baptism, since they recognize Constantine as a saint, and he was baptized by an Arian. If this is of interest to you, you could ask in TAW. They are a pretty friendly and knowledgeable bunch.

RED that's ME

12th January 2005, 09:57 PM

Most Baptist churches in my area allows all believers to take communion at their church whether they are a member or not. They will caution them as well as anyone taking communion to make sure their hearts are right before the Lord before taking communion.

I don't know why your church doesn't recognize your Baptism unless you made your decision for Christ/became a Believer after you were baptized. Baptism is an outward showing of what Christ has done for you on the inside. If a person is Baptized and then makes Jesus their Savior and Lord the Baptist believe they just got dunked and wet not truly Baptized. It's like getting the cart before the horse.

http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A1/05/A10593B-md.jpg

SonOfThunder

12th January 2005, 11:55 PM

Your church may not accept your baptism for any or all of these reasons. I don't know whether JWs say in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but if they do (as Mormons do), most mainstream churches still won't accept it because Mormons and JWs do not believe in the trinity, so when they say Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they mean something different than mainstream churches believe.

A Baptist church also would say, I think, that a JW baptism could not be on confession of faith because the person would not have confessed THE faith. But you would have to ask your church about that.

Thankyou for replying, this is my point exactly, faith alone is not enough, provisions seem to stop every step. I believe in Jesus Christ and what He did and feel I am Christian through and through. Yet I don't understand a lot, ie The Trinity, I cannot proclaim the Nicene Creed, nor can I get my head around every doctrine. This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.

My head is swimming and all the while I know what Jesus said in John 1 about belief, that He would give you power if you believe. and what Philip said when the eunich said "what prevents me from being baptised"? what is confessing The Faith...to me it is as simple as knowing Jesus Christ, embrasing that he is The Son of God and understanding the freedom He brings through His death and resurrection for me personally.

The week after Christmas a total stranger came into church and raised their hand at the end of the service to declare they believed. I was curious as this is the first I have seen and everyone was excited after and I heard them saying to this person about being white as snow, and baptism to follow. I had a chance to ask this person personally their background and found it was the first time they had been into a church, they hadn't read the Bible before but knew about Jesus a little.

This person hasn't prayed previously, cannot know about trinity or the Nicene creed or any Bible principles as yet. My interest here is there are no rules for this person and yet so many for me. Does this person have to agree to what they don't know before baptism? will this person after Baptism be a member (yes) and can take the bread and the wine.

I am interested in the rules and have pointed this out not because of 'sour grapes' but out of interest in how it is all done. Any light on my confusion will be appreciated.

My past has confused me, and now I am supposedly free from that I have stepped into another set of rules it seems.

James

ps I know I haven't quoted much in this thread from the Bible. Guess I am a little upset. But I did quote a lot in the thread named paycheck to paycheck in this forum if you care to look. James

Crazy Liz

13th January 2005, 02:04 AM

This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.

None of us really know if there are any rules in your church that would prevent you from being baptized or participating in communion. We have just told you about the kinds of rules there MIGHT be. The only way you can find out if there really are any such rules is to ASK. Have courage and ask. Or raise your hand or walk to the front or whatever they ask you to do in that church in response to make a commitment. Someone will meet you, accept you, and help you with the next steps.

ZiSunka

13th January 2005, 11:38 AM

At my church, we don't police people to prevent anyone from taking communion. When the elders get ready to serve the comunion, one of them will say something like, "We practice an open communion. All baptized Believers are welcome to join in partaking of the Lords table."

I'm a little worried that your church is only admitting members of its own congregation to the Lord's table. Does that mean they think they are the only ones who are saved? What about visitors? Do they get to take communion?

On the other hand, it is important that only Believers take communion, since the Bible says that people who take communion in an unworthy manner brings judgment on themselves and might get sick. 1 Corinthians 11.

If you are longing to take communion, that is a good sign, a longing for the Lord and for union with the body of Believers. As soon as you have saving faith in Christ, you should find a congregation that practices open communion and partake with them! :)

GreenEyedLady

13th January 2005, 11:51 AM

Now the pastor said I have to be saved and then baptised in order to be a member when I asked about being able to take the communion as they had it last Sunday again and I wanted to take it so badly.

As yet I don't know all the beliefs and cant say without a doubt I believe in them all, it's too soon. I have been a believer all my life and love God a whole lot.

I have been baptised before when I was 13, is anyone able to help me on the rules as I dont want to get deep with the pastor and say too much.

James

James,
I think that we should address these issues instead of bashing the church you are in. You caught my attention when you stated,
I have been a believer all my life
No one has ever been a believer all thier life. My JW friend dealt with this same exact situation of being born again after leaving the church. She would pray to Him and talk to Him but never knew the Gospel. There is no shame in that James. Your heart is right where it needs to be. Making your salvation public by raising your hand and walking the isle is not FOR the church. Its for your own soul. It is for you to never ever doubt again that you will live in heaven forever. This is why any good bible believing church takes matters such as communion so seriously. Walking that isle, and raising your hand is NOT making you a baptist. It is making you a child of God. Even being baptized is NOT making you a baptist. When you join the church, you are then agreeing with thier doctrines and faith statements.
We should be Christians by faith and Baptist or other denom by choice.
I really encourage you to sit with the pastor and speak with him and ask him questions.
GEL

SumTinWong

13th January 2005, 11:56 AM

Thankyou for replying, this is my point exactly, faith alone is not enough, provisions seem to stop every step. I believe in Jesus Christ and what He did and feel I am Christian through and through. Yet I don't understand a lot, ie The Trinity, I cannot proclaim the Nicene Creed, nor can I get my head around every doctrine. This is what stops me from being baptised or being accepted as a believer, so then rules prevent me from taking part in sharing the bread and the wine, rules say I have to do this and that, rules rules rules.
Church rules drive me crazy as well. Not Christ centered church rules mind you but peoples interpretation of these rules, which seem to put stumbling blocks in front of many people. Perhaps we can help you with you quest to understand or perhaps comprehend fully what is all in the nicene creed? Maybe if we posted the creed you would be able to ask specific questions and we could talk with you about what confuses you.

By the way most of us if we are honest with each other and ourselves have no blooming idea how the Trinity works. We just accept that the Bible does point to three in one. How? Good luck trying to figure that out :)

My head is swimming and all the while I know what Jesus said in John 1 about belief, that He would give you power if you believe. and what Philip said when the eunich said "what prevents me from being baptised"? what is confessing The Faith...to me it is as simple as knowing Jesus Christ, embrasing that he is The Son of God and understanding the freedom He brings through His death and resurrection for me personally.
Seems to me you have a handle on Christianity.

I am interested in the rules and have pointed this out not because of 'sour grapes' but out of interest in how it is all done. Any light on my confusion will be appreciated.
I understand what you are saying. You want to do things right, and are confused at how someone with no background in this can be more excepted (or so you think anyway) than someone who has known about and has worshipped the Christ.

I guess the difference would be doubt. You have doubts, they don't. Perhaps they will have doubts after the fact, when faced with these creeds and such but for now they are trusting in what they have heard. It is just an idea.

I am not sure this post will help, but perhaps letting us help you in your doubts will get you to where you need to be. One thing I know for sure is you need to pray as we all do, Lord, I believe! Help me in my unbelief.

My past has confused me, and now I am supposedly free from that I have stepped into another set of rules it seems.
I know from one yoke to the another. Jesus said take my yoke it is easy. Do not get drowned in rules, just believe in Him who saves you my friend.

ps I know I haven't quoted much in this thread from the Bible. Guess I am a little upset. But I did quote a lot in the thread named paycheck to paycheck in this forum if you care to look. James
You do not have to quote from the Bible to be excepted here SOT. :) I can tell you are upset, and I will pray for you to recieve the answers you need.

Keep walking!