A Question about Orthodoxy (EO or Coptic, Oriental)

[tattedschmoe]

coming from a Protestant/Evangelical background, i have a question. i am in now way trying to argue, bicker or debate any issue, i just want to know the differences here, specifically with the Armenian Church and one question after that.

1. is it right to say that Orthodox is the Arminian Church that all the Protestants deam as heresy?

2. now my next question is maybe more of a historical question mixed with a personal opinion or personal hypothesis for an answer. historically can't it be said that the Orthodox Church is the earliest of Christian Churches? and i honsetly put the Roman Catholics right with that just because of the seperation of the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church in, was it 404 ad? (forgive me if my date is off and please correct me if i was off.) so with all this in mind, if this is historicall accurate about the Orthodox Church, then what is the reason for this change that we today with the Church as a whole?

[Carl the Copt]

The Split with the Romans came in 1054 AD so it is long after the Eastern Orthodox left the Coptic Church.
We can hold onto history and think it is the Gospel but we would be wrong, so the feeling is at least with me is that we had better figure out how to get our act together or Christianity as a whole will end up like a historical religion which means not living.
Carl the Copt

[Xpycoctomos]

While it is true that we had better get our act together, we must remain faithful to the fact that the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church. But that doesn't lessen the seriousness of working to understand eachother with the hope of, God-willing, us reunifying once again.

God bless,

John

[Yeznik]

coming from a Protestant/Evangelical background, i have a question. i am in now way trying to argue, bicker or debate any issue, i just want to know the differences here, specifically with the Armenian Church and one question after that.

1. is it right to say that Orthodox is the Arminian Church that all the Protestants deam as heresy?

2. now my next question is maybe more of a historical question mixed with a personal opinion or personal hypothesis for an answer. historically can't it be said that the Orthodox Church is the earliest of Christian Churches? and i honsetly put the Roman Catholics right with that just because of the seperation of the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church in, was it 404 ad? (forgive me if my date is off and please correct me if i was off.) so with all this in mind, if this is historicall accurate about the Orthodox Church, then what is the reason for this change that we today with the Church as a whole?

:wave: Hello tattedsaint,

I don't understand your first question, can you please re-phrase it ?

[tattedschmoe]

:wave: Hello tattedsaint,

I don't understand your first question, can you please re-phrase it ?

sorry if i didn't explain it, maybe this will help.

see i heard of the arminian church before from protestants. and it just seems that most protestants deam it as heresy. so my question comes from my research of the Orthodox Church. i found, now maybe my research was wrong, but i found the Armenian church mentioned with the Orthodox Church, specifically from the Oriental Orthodox Church. so my question is basically, did the Arminian Church get started in the Orthodox Church? i know i'm going to research the Arminian Church some more myself. i was just shocked to see the Oriental Orthodox site referencing the Arminian Church, so i was just asking if the Arminian Church started in the Orthodox Church, that's all. forgive me for my ignorance.

[Kripost]

sorry if i didn't explain it, maybe this will help.

see i heard of the arminian church before from protestants. and it just seems that most protestants deam it as heresy. so my question comes from my research of the Orthodox Church. i found, now maybe my research was wrong, but i found the Armenian church mentioned with the Orthodox Church, specifically from the Oriental Orthodox Church. so my question is basically, did the Arminian Church get started in the Orthodox Church? i know i'm going to research the Arminian Church some more myself. i was just shocked to see the Oriental Orthodox site referencing the Arminian Church, so i was just asking if the Arminian Church started in the Orthodox Church, that's all. forgive me for my ignorance.

For starters, despite similar sounding names, there is no historical link between Armenians and Arminianism. The first refers to a nation whereas the second is refers to a worldview or theology. Arminianism is usually placed in contrast to calvinism. The word Arminianism came from the name of a Dutch theologian Jacobus Arminius.

Also, I believe it is incorrect say that there exist a distinct entity called the Arminian Church, since it is a theology regarding soteriology.

[tattedschmoe]

For starters, despite similar sounding names, there is no historical link between Armenians and Arminianism. The first refers to a nation whereas the second is refers to a worldview or theology. Arminianism is usually placed in contrast to calvinism. The word Arminianism came from the name of a Dutch theologian Jacobus Arminius.

Also, I believe it is incorrect say that there exist a distinct entity called the Arminian Church, since it is a theology regarding soteriology.

well for starters kripost, have you ever heard of spelling errors? lol. i know who the name came from as my research has been coming out and secondly it is called spelling errors, because i have learned how Arminians get misplaced under false accusations. so dont' worry, i'm not one of them, it is only called spelling errors, lol.

now that's what i first thought, that it was a theology but from the site, now maybe i misunderstood it, but it seemed that it was a distinct entity, which was why i came here to ask people who knew to clarrify it up ;)

[Xpycoctomos]

How would Kripost have read it differently? Those are significant spelling errors and it seems he was simply trying to answer you post to the best of his ability according to the way you spelled it.

[tattedschmoe]

How would Kripost have read it differently? Those are significant spelling errors and it seems he was simply trying to answer you post to the best of his ability according to the way you spelled it.

well why not try to ask questions instead of assuming? i'm not saying i'm perfect but why not ask questions on what i meant with the differences of the way i spelled the word out. if a question would have been asked, it would have been different.

anyways, i'm not going to let this detere my opening post.

[tattedschmoe]

my initial question with the arminian church was, i never heard anything about it growing up in my faith except that it was heresy. then now i am re-discovering my faith and then i ran into something i was reading about and found the first time i heard any historical accounts with this arminianism was in the Orthodox Church. so i was asking is this true and starting it out only for discussion purposes. i am not trying to say it is heresy or wrong, or right. i was just trying to know more about it, that is all.

[Irish Melkite]

coming from a Protestant/Evangelical background, i have a question. i am in now way trying to argue, bicker or debate any issue, i just want to know the differences here, specifically with the Armenian Church and one question after that.

1. is it right to say that Orthodox is the Arminian Church that all the Protestants deam as heresy?

Tatted Saint,

I'm going to take a shot at answering your query because I think you have mistaken the point of a couple of the earlier replies.

There is a Church called the Armenian Apostolic Church or Armenian Orthodox Church (also, occasionally, called the Armenian Gregorian Church, although that particular name is no longer a preferred usage by the Church or its faithful). This Church is one of those referred to as an Oriental Orthodox Church and has a Catholic counterpart in the Armenian Catholic Church sui iuris. Both the Armenian Orthodox and Catholic Churches have their origins in the nation of Armenia and the faithful of both Churches are essentially, although not entirely, ethnic Armenians and their descendents. The Armenian Orthodox have been separated from what are today termed the Orthodox Church and Catholic Churches since 506 AD, when an Armenian synod rejected the Council of Chalcedon, held in 451 AD, at which no Armenian hierarch was present.

The Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians, who heads the Catholicosate of Holy Etchmiadzin, is accorded a primacy of honor in the Armenian Orthodox Church. The Church's other principal hierarchs are the Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia, and the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchs of Constantinople and Jerusalem, the latter two being spiritually suffragn to the Catholicos of Etchmiadzin.

Now, putting aside the Armenian Church, there is a theological movement called Arminianism which, as Kripost indicated is named for a Dutch theologian, Jacobus Arminius.

You seem to think that Kripost was challenging your spelling - when, in fact, he was pointing out that there are 2 separate and un-related things here, which you seem to be confusing or trying to meld into one. They are:

1. ArmEnian Orthodox Church

and

2. ArmInianism which is not a church

- and the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

I am certain that it was Arminianism (and NOT the Armenian Orthodox Church) that your friends were discussing as a heresy. My reasoning is simple - the likelihood that your friends would have been aware of the Armenian Orthodox Church and, if they were, the likelihood that they would have singled it out from the larger ecclesial and theological world of Eastern and/or Oriental Orthodoxy to denounce it as "heretical", is extraordinarily unlikely.

Arminianism has nothing to do with Orthodoxy, let alone with the Armenian Orthodox Church. It was a reaction, a counter really, to Calvinism's theology of predestination and, for that reason, Calvinists are most likely to label it as "heretical".

In its simplest presentation, Arminianism is the belief that God has given man the choice to accept Him or reject Him. Wesley's followers were the first organized ecclesial body to take this up as a tenet of belief and, today, it probably could be said to be consistent with the theological leanings of most Christian Churches, other than those which are strongly wedded to absolute predestination as a guiding precept of their belief system.

So, if you have questions about Arminianism in its present day manifestations, they would likely be best presented and addressed on one of the Protestant boards here. There is no "ArmInian Church".

If, on the other hand, you have questions about the ArmEnian Church, here is the place to pursue those.

Many years,

Neil

[orthedoxy]

Well said Neil

[tattedschmoe]

Tatted Saint,

I'm going to take a shot at answering your query because I think you have mistaken the point of a couple of the earlier replies.

There is a Church called the Armenian Apostolic Church or Armenian Orthodox Church (also, occasionally, called the Armenian Gregorian Church, although that particular name is no longer a preferred usage by the Church or its faithful). This Church is one of those referred to as an Oriental Orthodox Church and has a Catholic counterpart in the Armenian Catholic Church sui iuris. Both the Armenian Orthodox and Catholic Churches have their origins in the nation of Armenia and the faithful of both Churches are essentially, although not entirely, ethnic Armenians and their descendents. The Armenian Orthodox have been separated from what are today termed the Orthodox Church and Catholic Churches since 506 AD, when an Armenian synod rejected the Council of Chalcedon, held in 451 AD, at which no Armenian hierarch was present.

The Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians, who heads the Catholicosate of Holy Etchmiadzin, is accorded a primacy of honor in the Armenian Orthodox Church. The Church's other principal hierarchs are the Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia, and the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchs of Constantinople and Jerusalem, the latter two being spiritually suffragn to the Catholicos of Etchmiadzin.

Now, putting aside the Armenian Church, there is a theological movement called Arminianism which, as Kripost indicated is named for a Dutch theologian, Jacobus Arminius.

You seem to think that Kripost was challenging your spelling - when, in fact, he was pointing out that there are 2 separate and un-related things here, which you seem to be confusing or trying to meld into one. They are:

1. ArmEnian Orthodox Church

and

2. ArmInianism which is not a church

- and the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

I am certain that it was Arminianism (and NOT the Armenian Orthodox Church) that your friends were discussing as a heresy. My reasoning is simple - the likelihood that your friends would have been aware of the Armenian Orthodox Church and, if they were, the likelihood that they would have singled it out from the larger ecclesial and theological world of Eastern and/or Oriental Orthodoxy to denounce it as "heretical", is extraordinarily unlikely.

Arminianism has nothing to do with Orthodoxy, let alone with the Armenian Orthodox Church. It was a reaction, a counter really, to Calvinism's theology of predestination and, for that reason, Calvinists are most likely to label it as "heretical".

In its simplest presentation, Arminianism is the belief that God has given man the choice to accept Him or reject Him. Wesley's followers were the first organized ecclesial body to take this up as a tenet of belief and, today, it probably could be said to be consistent with the theological leanings of most Christian Churches, other than those which are strongly wedded to absolute predestination as a guiding precept of their belief system.

So, if you have questions about Arminianism in its present day manifestations, they would likely be best presented and addressed on one of the Protestant boards here. There is no "ArmInian Church".

If, on the other hand, you have questions about the ArmEnian Church, here is the place to pursue those.

Many years,

Neil

well first off, my sincerest apologies go out to Kripost. please believe me i wasn't starting to start some argument or be mean, it was just by the research found, which this here is probably the truth of the research i found it seemed like there was an arminian church and that was why i mentioned my spelling errors lightly. so again, my apologies go out to Kripost :)

well so since we're at it, what is the Armenian Church about? like maybe a brief overview of theology and stuff like that. from what i have heard about the Eastern Orthodox as a whole it is almost a different faith in Christianit. correct me if i am wrong there :) God Bless you all! <><

[Kripost]

well first off, my sincerest apologies go out to Kripost. please believe me i wasn't starting to start some argument or be mean, it was just by the research found, which this here is probably the truth of the research i found it seemed like there was an arminian church and that was why i mentioned my spelling errors lightly. so again, my apologies go out to Kripost :)



That's okay. No offence taken. :)

[orthedoxy]

well first off, my sincerest apologies go out to Kripost. please believe me i wasn't starting to start some argument or be mean, it was just by the research found, which this here is probably the truth of the research i found it seemed like there was an arminian church and that was why i mentioned my spelling errors lightly. so again, my apologies go out to Kripost :)

well so since we're at it, what is the Armenian Church about? like maybe a brief overview of theology and stuff like that. from what i have heard about the Eastern Orthodox as a whole it is almost a different faith in Christianit. correct me if i am wrong there :) God Bless you all! <><
http://www.christianforums.com/t1157597-what-is-the-main-difference.html
this thread you can read and see what the Armenian Church believe.
they are Oriental Orthodox and believe like the rest of Oriental Orthodox Churches.