Confessional?

[Colabomb]

What is a confessional Lutheran?

God Bless you Brothers!

[SPALATIN]

What is a confessional Lutheran?

God Bless you Brothers!

Soon to be found on the Lutheran forum FAQ thread, but for now.

A confessional Lutheran is one who abides by scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone and confesses the ecumenical creeds a.k.a. The Apostles, The Nicene and the Athanasian.

We also believe in confessing our sins before God and receiving absolulution from him through our Pastor. We hold to 2 Sacraments. Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. Sacraments are a means of Grace in which we receive forgiveness of Sins and assurance of salvation through Christ's death on the cross. We hold to the Augsburg confessions written by Phillip Melanchthon and the Apology of the Augsburg confessions.

If I forgot anything, I am sure that my Lutheran compadres will fill in the blanks.

[Organist]

Soon to be found on the Lutheran forum FAQ thread, but for now.

A confessional Lutheran is one who abides by scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone and confesses the ecumenical creeds a.k.a. The Apostles, The Nicene and the Athanasian.

We also believe in confessing our sins before God and receiving absolulution from him through our Pastor. We hold to 2 Sacraments. Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. Sacraments are a means of Grace in which we receive forgiveness of Sins and assurance of salvation through Christ's death on the cross. We hold to the Augsburg confessions written by Phillip Melanchthon and the Apology of the Augsburg confessions.

If I forgot anything, I am sure that my Lutheran compadres will fill in the blanks.


Seems right to me, SLS, however, I haven't finished my grace-filled coffee yet this morning. ;)

[Colabomb]

Soon to be found on the Lutheran forum FAQ thread, but for now.

A confessional Lutheran is one who abides by scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone and confesses the ecumenical creeds a.k.a. The Apostles, The Nicene and the Athanasian.

We also believe in confessing our sins before God and receiving absolulution from him through our Pastor. We hold to 2 Sacraments. Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. Sacraments are a means of Grace in which we receive forgiveness of Sins and assurance of salvation through Christ's death on the cross. We hold to the Augsburg confessions written by Phillip Melanchthon and the Apology of the Augsburg confessions.

If I forgot anything, I am sure that my Lutheran compadres will fill in the blanks.
Is there such a thing as a non-confessional Lutheran?

[BigNorsk]

Hi,

Is there such a thing as a non-confessional Lutheran?

The foundation of the thought of what is a confessional Lutheran is this, that the Holy Scriptures are the sole source and norm for all teachings and practices within the church. As such, all Lutherans (maybe excluding some individuals, but no churches that would call themselves Lutheran) are confessional.

However, some would say that it is necessary to consider the Bible verbally inspired in order to be considered confessional and some Lutherans hold that the Bible is inspired in matters of faith only so would not fit that definition.

There are also those that would say confessional Lutherans would agree to the whole Book of Concord as in agreement with scripture, and there are those that would not agree with that so under that definition would not be considered confessional by those that would say that being in agreement with the whole Book of Concord is necessary in order to be confessional.

Usually, when you hear the term confessional Lutheran, you would be in a Lutheran church that holds to one of the more restrictive definitions of what exactly is a confessional Lutheran and they would be using the term in a way that would exclude other denominations, including many Lutheran denominations, from fellowship is some practice, most commonly Communion. So in practice, there are indeed non-confessional Lutherans.

Marv

[Dr. Martin Luther]

What is the connection between the Bible and the Confessions?

We confess that, "The Word of God is and should remain the sole rule and norm of all doctrine" (FC SD, Rule and Norm, 9). What the Bible asserts, God asserts. What the Bible commands, God commands. The authority of the Scriptures is complete, certain and final. The Scriptures are accepted by the Lutheran Confessions as the actual Word of God. The Lutheran Confessions urge us to believe the Scriptures for "they will not lie to you" (LC, V, 76) and cannot be "false and deceitful" (FC SD, VII, 96). The Bible is God's "pure, infallible, and unalterable Word" (Preface to the BOC).

The Lutheran Confessions are the "basis, rule, and norm indicating how all doctrines should be judged in conformity with the Word of God" (FC SD RN). Because the Confessions are in complete doctrinal agreement with the written Word of God, they serve as the standard in the Lutheran Church to determine what is faithful Biblical teaching, insofar as that teaching is addressed in the Confessions.

[revjpw]

Soon to be found on the Lutheran forum FAQ thread, but for now.

A confessional Lutheran is one who abides by scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone and confesses the ecumenical creeds a.k.a. The Apostles, The Nicene and the Athanasian.

We also believe in confessing our sins before God and receiving absolulution from him through our Pastor. We hold to 2 Sacraments. Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. Sacraments are a means of Grace in which we receive forgiveness of Sins and assurance of salvation through Christ's death on the cross. We hold to the Augsburg confessions written by Phillip Melanchthon and the Apology of the Augsburg confessions.

If I forgot anything, I am sure that my Lutheran compadres will fill in the blanks.

The Lutheran Confessions are those documents found in the Book of Concord of 1580. Namely:
The three Ecumenical Creeds (Nicene, Apostles, Athanasian)
The Unaltered Augsburg Confession
The Apology (Defense of) the Augsburg Confession
The Smallcald Articles
The Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope
Luther's Small and Large Catechisms
The Formula of Concord (comprised of the Epitome and the Solid Declaration)

These documents are subscribed to by the Lutheran Church because they are thoroughly Scriptural. They are the only true exposition of the Scriptural truths of doctrine.

The Bible IS the innerrant, inspired Word of God and the only source and norm of all teaching in the Church. The confessions of the Book of Concord of 1580 are the only true exposition of the Scriptural truths BECAUSE it is THOROUGHLY Scriptural. Whoever holds to this is considered to be a Confessional Lutheran.


DaRev:wave:

[Qoheleth]

Holy Scripture is the norma normans-- the ruling rule, and the
Confessions are the norma normata-- the ruled rule.


The latter decides whether the person has clearly understood the true doctrines of Scripture. We don't play one off against the other.

So, our Lutheran Confessions are a clear exposition of the Word of God and the ruled rule, the ruling rule being Holy Scripture

[ByzantineDixie]

While I tend to hold to a more restrictive understanding of the "Confessional" title (one who embraces both the Scriptures and the Confessions) I think ChiRho did a nice job in this thread (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10925575&postcount=48)and I would agree with his summation.

Peace

Rose

[revjpw]

ChiRho posted in another thread, "The Catechism is surely simple and true Lutheran belief, but the rest of the Book of Concord was written to expound and clarify upon errors and defend "Lutheran" practices and beliefs."


The Confessions are more than writings which "expound and clarify upon errors and defend "Lutheran" practices and beliefs," but are the only true exposition of the Biblical truths which are held, taught, and confessed by the Church. They are what the Scripture teaches. They are the "catholic" practices and beliefs. In order to be a Confessional Lutheran, one must hold a quia (because they are thoroughly Scriptural) subscription to the Confessions.

ChiRho also said, "To demand that a Confessional Lutheran holds to all and every point perfectly in the Book of Concord is a pretty high bar to set considering the sinfulness of man and the depth of the Confessions."

What about holding to all and every point in the Scriptures? That is an even higher bar to set considering Man's sinfulness, but unless such is held one cannot even be considered a Christian let alone a "Confessional Lutheran."


DaRev:)

[Mary of Bethany]

So does that mean that the Book of Concord is sort of the Lutheran understanding of Holy Tradition? (Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - just trying to get a clear understanding.) It seems from the posts that you're not "sola scriptura", only that any true Tradition could never contradict Scripture, which of course is what other "Tradition" churches would say. Or am I confused? Thanks!

Mary

[Colabomb]

So does that mean that the Book of Concord is sort of the Lutheran understanding of Holy Tradition? (Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - just trying to get a clear understanding.) It seems from the posts that you're not "sola scriptura", only that any true Tradition could never contradict Scripture, which of course is what other "Tradition" churches would say. Or am I confused? Thanks!

Mary
(see this is what people don't realize about us "Traditional" Christians. They seem to get this Idea that we choose Tradition over Scripture when we simply say that Tradition and Scripture coexist and never contradict.)

Done Ranting :)

[Qoheleth]

So does that mean that the Book of Concord is sort of the Lutheran understanding of Holy Tradition? (Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - just trying to get a clear understanding.) It seems from the posts that you're not "sola scriptura", only that any true Tradition could never contradict Scripture, which of course is what other "Tradition" churches would say. Or am I confused? Thanks!

No argument here.

[ChiRho]

ChiRho posted in another thread, "The Catechism is surely simple and true Lutheran belief, but the rest of the Book of Concord was written to expound and clarify upon errors and defend "Lutheran" practices and beliefs."


The Confessions are more than writings which "expound and clarify upon errors and defend "Lutheran" practices and beliefs," but are the only true exposition of the Biblical truths which are held, taught, and confessed by the Church. They are what the Scripture teaches. They are the "catholic" practices and beliefs. In order to be a Confessional Lutheran, one must hold a quia (because they are thoroughly Scriptural) subscription to the Confessions.

ChiRho also said, "To demand that a Confessional Lutheran holds to all and every point perfectly in the Book of Concord is a pretty high bar to set considering the sinfulness of man and the depth of the Confessions."

What about holding to all and every point in the Scriptures? That is an even higher bar to set considering Man's sinfulness, but unless such is held one cannot even be considered a Christian let alone a "Confessional Lutheran."


DaRev:)

Da Rev,

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. But you are the pastor, so I will appeal to you...

What do you mean by "holding to all and every point in Scriptures?" If a methodist lady believes that Jesus died on the Cross for her sins, yet believes that a woman can be a pastor, is she a Christian? Does the Blood of Christ even cover her incorrect doctrine?

Was Luther Lutheran? Certainly deceased before the Declaration and Epitome were penned...does he still qualify? I do believe that the Book of Concord is right, I would not present to you a single contention...when I have questions, I go to our Confessions, and sometimes I even check the Scriptural references that are offered...when I stop to clarify the Scriptural references, am I holding still perfectly the entire Confessions?

Thank you.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Jim47]

when I have questions, I go to our Confessions, and sometimes I even check the Scriptural references that are offered...when I stop to clarify the Scriptural references, am I holding still perfectly the entire Confessions?

Thank you.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho


Excellant explaination. We are Christians first, and Lutherans second, and our creeds and confessions are nothing more than a clear explaination of what scripture teaches.

[revjpw]

So does that mean that the Book of Concord is sort of the Lutheran understanding of Holy Tradition? (Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - just trying to get a clear understanding.) It seems from the posts that you're not "sola scriptura", only that any true Tradition could never contradict Scripture, which of course is what other "Tradition" churches would say. Or am I confused? Thanks!

Mary

First, what is your definition of "Holy Tradition?"

If you are referring to the Romanist definition, then No. The Book of Concord tells us what Scripture teaches. It is like a road map through the Bible, showing us what it teaches us about the faith. It is not equal to Scripture, but is thoroughly Scriptural.

The Romanist view of "Holy Tradition" puts it on par with Scripture, even supercedes Scripture in some instances (whatever the Pope decides to be "Tradition."). The BOC is never to be viewed that way. "Holy Tradition" in the Romanist view is not thoroughly Scriptural and even contradicts it in many ways.

Think about this, if someone claims to hold to Scripture but rejects the Confessions, then can they really be holding to Scripture? I say no.


DaRev

[Qoheleth]

If you are referring to the Romanist definition, then No. The Book of Concord tells us what Scripture teaches.

Indeed, we do not believe in a two-source authority. Yet scripture can never be held as interpreted in a vacuum.

Think about this, if someone claims to hold to Scripture but rejects the Confessions, then can they really be holding to Scripture? I say no.

I agree with this

[ByzantineDixie]

I actually had a post all constructed earlier today and ready to send on this and then I made the mistake of picking up a PM and my post was sent to electron heaven....I HATE THAT! :mad:

I have never been to seminary and I don't know how the men are instructed but it seems to me that while the Scriptures are the infallable Word of God, and as such are held as the highest authority, I do see the Confessions as our (T)radition in that they are the lens through which we read Scripture. Any of our online pastors care to comment?

Now the Wauwatosa Triumvirate theologians would object but....I am not WELS. ;)

Peace

Rose

[KagomeShuko]

Wauwatosa Triumvirate

Rose will find any reason to type "Wauwatosa Triumvirate" LOL (okay, yeah, it is kinda fun to type, but I got letters interchanged. . .)

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Jim47]

I actually had a post all constructed earlier today and ready to send on this and then I made the mistake of picking up a PM and my post was sent to electron heaven....I HATE THAT! :mad:

I have never been to seminary and I don't know how the men are instructed but it seems to me that while the Scriptures are the infallable Word of God, and as such are held as the highest authority, I do see the Confessions as our (T)radition in that they are the lens through which we read Scripture. Any of our online pastors care to comment?

Now the Wauwatosa Triumvirate theologians would object but....I am not WELS. ;)

Peace

Rose

Well Rose, I'm a long way from being a Pastor, but I am WELS and I believe that I can agree with your statement. Our confessions are nothing more than a clear well written statement of the fact that we believe God and what "He" has said.

This is an interesting point, because I had listed the Lutheran confessions on another forum and the first reply I recieved was someone who said that we should not take stock in confessions but instead what is written in God's Word, so I turned around and asked her then which part of the confession was not in line with God's Word. The responce I got was an apology. I thought this rather significant as it came from a Baptist. :)

[Rechtgläubig]

“The position accorded the [confessions] in the Lutheran Church is clearly defined by the Book of Concord itself. According to it Holy Scripture alone is to be regarded as the sole rule and norm by which absolutely all doctrines and teachers are to be judged. The object of the Augsburg Confession, as stated in its Preface, was to show ‘what manner of doctrine has been set forth, in our lands and churches, from the Holy Scripture and the pure Word of God.’ And in its Conclusion the Lutheran confessors declare: ‘Nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic,’ and ‘we are ready, God willing, to present ampler information according to the Scriptures.’ ‘Iuxta Scripturam’—such are the closing words of the Augsburg Confession. The Lutheran Church knows of no other principle. …” (Bente, F. “Historical Introductions to the Symbolical Books,” Concordia Triglotta. (Concordia Publishing House: St. Louis, 1921.),p. 7.)



"Appendix from the Introduction to the Formula Concord


This quotation demonstrates the view of the subscribers of the Formula of Concord concerning the authority of confessions and the meaning of confessional subscription is the same as that set forth in the preceding paper.


OF THE SUMMARY CONTENT, RULE, AND STANDARD

according to which all dogmas should be judged, and the erroneous teachings [controversies] that have occurred should be decided and explained in a Christian way.


1] 1. We believe, teach, and confess that the sole rule and standard according to which all dogmas together with [all] teachers should be estimated and judged are the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament alone...


2] Other writings, however, of ancient or modern teachers, whatever name they bear, must not be regarded as equal to the Holy Scriptures, but all of them together be subjected to them, and should not be received otherwise or further than as witnesses, [which are to show] in what manner after the time of the apostles, and at what places, this [pure] doctrine of the prophets and apostles was preserved.


7] In this way the distinction between the Holy Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament and all other writings is preserved, and the Holy Scriptures alone remain the only judge, rule, and standard, according to which, as the only test-stone, all dogmas shall and must be discerned and judged, as to whether they are good or evil, right or wrong.


8] But the other symbols and writings cited are not judges, as are the Holy Scriptures, but only a testimony and declaration of the faith..."



(Why Bible-Believing Lutherans Subscribe to the Book of Concord
By John F. Brug) http://www.wls.wels.net/library/Essays/Authors/b/BrugConcord/BrugConcord.htm

[ByzantineDixie]

I have done just a little more looking in to this and am beginning to see that my instincts were correct...there is disagreement between sysods on the concept of viewing Scripture through the lens of the Confessions. I don't mean to start a debate...but in this, the OP can understand that all Lutherans would not necessarily agree.

I would suggest, however, I am in good company with CF Walther...

"If the Church conceded that its ministers should not be required to interpret the Scriptures according to the symbols but interpret the symbols according to the Scriptures, subscription would not give the church any guarantee that the pledged minister would understand and expound the Scriptures as it [the Church] does but rather as he himself thinks right. Thus the church would actually set up the changing personal convictions of its ministers as the symbol to which it would obligate itself." (C. F. W. Walther, "Confessional Subscription,"Essays for the Church: Volume I 1857-1879 [St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1992], 25).


Peace

Rose

[ChiRho]

Perhaps you have attended an ordination of a pastor and heard him promise that he will perform the duties of his office in accord with the Lutheran Confessions. When people are received into membership into a Lutheran congretation through confirmation they are asked if they confess the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, as they have learned to know it from the Small Catechism, to be faithful and true.

-Robert Preus (What is a Lutheran)

Entire Article (http://www.bookofconcord.org/whatisalutheran.html)

Because I often fail to convey my ideas clearly, I apologize. I think Dr. Preus does a much better job explaining what I meant. There are simple, faithful Lutherans (adults and children alike) who have never read the entire Confessions, but assent completely with the Small Catechism. They are as much Confessional Lutheran, as I am. Intellect and the ability to process information as a lay theologian is not criteria for a Confessional Lutheran. That is what I meant to say.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho