Why do some people have a beef with the apostle Paul?

[Tetzel]

I've got some fool over in Liberal Theology (my mistake for going there I suppose) who believes that Paul's epistles are not valid and also rejects the gospel of Luke through guilt by association. He seems to reject Christ's forgiveness and thinks that Paul encourages continuation of sin. Anyone want to go over there and toss some scripture at him (unless it is written by Paul or Luke, which he rejects)?

[Jim47]

Which thread and who? I'll givem a big :hug:

[Tetzel]

Over here. http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10986854#post10986854

A buddy told me to tone it down a bit. I get a bit testy when someone spits upon the work done at the cross.

[sculpturegirl]

A buddy told me to tone it down a bit. I get a bit testy when someone spits upon the work done at the cross.

:thumbsup: My kind of Lutheran! YEAH!

[Jim47]

I think only The Lord can handle this guy. He is to proud of his arrogance and ability to cause strife. Very sad.

[AngelusSax]

I too know of who you speak. And yes... he's all about causing strife. He seems to be all about him (though I could be wrong), which is what he accuses Paul of being.

There's a word for this... oh well. Guess I'll do that forgiveness thing we Lutherans are so good at doing. Hey, we learned from Christ, after all!

[CrossWiseMag]

It's not just the liberals who don't like Paul. I've had fundamentalists (some of them) tell me Paul's epistles can't be taken on an equal par with what Christ says in the Gospels. Ever since then, I've come to view "red-letter Bibles" with a wary eye. They can have a tendency to encourage the heterodox to prioritize God's word--giving those words in red a higher value than the words in black. But it's all God's word, no matter what the liberals and fundamentalists say.

[AngelusSax]

It's not just the liberals who don't like Paul. I've had fundamentalists (some of them) tell me Paul's epistles can't be taken on an equal par with what Christ says in the Gospels. Ever since then, I've come to view "red-letter Bibles" with a wary eye. They can have a tendency to encourage the heterodox to prioritize God's word--giving those words in red a higher value than the words in black. But it's all God's word, no matter what the liberals and fundamentalists say.

There's only one question I have...

Does Paul, somewhere, urge us to "rightly divide" the Word? I think I recall that, but it might simply be what someone else said a long time ago. And IF he does, then how do we "rightly divide" the Word of God?

[night2day]

From my experience, people have wanted to do away with Paul since they have a misbelief that Jesus teachings were much more important than His death on the cross. However, these were usually into mysticism of some sort and believed Jesus to be some sort of divine messenger to help all of us "awaken our divine inner-self".

The Gospel is the center of the Scriptures. The Old Testament shows how God works through history to bring about the time when the Savior would be born. The New Testament shows just how Jesus brought about how redemption from sin, death, and Hell and looks forward to his return. And the Law and Gospel is in both Testaments.

Paul's writings rest on the Scriptures as they point to the Gospel. Where do they not? Whenever I ask the question regarding which of Paul's writings does not support the rest of the Bible...I usually get a blank stare.

Which, I'm gets me perplexed. All of the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God. So...how can somehow claim to hold the Scriptures as God's inspired word then state not all of it was inspired or some was more than inspired than others?

Several men wrote the Bible. But there was only one Author.

[Jim47]

[QUOTE=night2day]

Paul's writings rest on the Scriptures as they point to the Gospel. Where do they not? Whenever I ask the question regarding which of Paul's writings does not support the rest of the Bible...I usually get a blank stare.

So...how can somehow claim to hold the Scriptures as God's inspired word then state not all of it was inspired or some was more than inspired than others?

QUOTE]
I think that some people may take offence that Paul spoke boldly as Jesus did, but certainly Paul was a humble and faithful servant of God's Word.

[ByzantineDixie]

Which, I'm gets me perplexed. All of the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God. So...how can somehow claim to hold the Scriptures as God's inspired word then state not all of it was inspired or some was more than inspired than others?

Several men wrote the Bible. But there was only one Author.

But if we are honest, didn't Luther and his group of reformers do the same thing...setting James, Hebrews, Jude, Revelation, 2 Peter and 2 & 3 John (I am working from memory here so this list may not be fully accurate) somewhat apart by distinguishing them as the antilegomena? And, by not establishing doctrine on the antilegomena but using it only to support that doctrine which can be found in the other books?

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying I agree with the folks who lower Paul's writings to a lower for of Scripture...it's just that we have done something similar.

Peace

Rose

[filosofer]

But if we are honest, didn't Luther and his group of reformers do the same thing...setting James, Hebrews, Jude, Revelation, 2 Peter and 2 & 3 John (I am working from memory here so this list may not be fully accurate) somewhat apart by distinguishing them as the antilegomena? And, by not establishing doctrine on the antilegomena but using it only to support that doctrine which can be found in the other books?

No, the distinction is that Luther, et al, were doing the exact same thing that the early Church fathers did. They were examining the evidence about the acceptance of the writings, and coming to the same conclusion. But there were historical reasons for the decisions and uncertainty. The present situation is based on ideology.

[zjl56]

Well I believe that Pauls works are the truth and he was callled upon by God to become a theologian.

[sculpturegirl]

I think that too many people think that St. Paul is a sexist, but in reality I think he is misunderstood. That makes me crazy!!

Sometimes I wonder if one of Paul's letters ended up at one of our modern churches, how would it be recieved? he he he... that might be something fun to nail to the church door!

[Dr. Martin Luther]

It is sadly unfortunate people have the guile to say bad things against St. Paul. He's been dead for what, almost nigh 1, 940 years now. In addition, they say bad things against me as well, and I've only been passed on only for 459 years now.

:preach:

[filosofer]

... and I've only been passed on only for 459 years now.


But you're rather well-preserved... ;)

[ByzantineDixie]

No, the distinction is that Luther, et al, were doing the exact same thing that the early Church fathers did. They were examining the evidence about the acceptance of the writings, and coming to the same conclusion. But there were historical reasons for the decisions and uncertainty. The present situation is based on ideology.

Yes, that is a great distinction. Thanks!-----R

[Dr. Martin Luther]

But you're rather well-preserved... ;)

Hey, it's a miracle! :)

[night2day]

I think that too many people think that St. Paul is a sexist, but in reality I think he is misunderstood. That makes me crazy!!

Sometimes I wonder if one of Paul's letters ended up at one of our modern churches, how would it be recieved? he he he... that might be something fun to nail to the church door!

I remember reading this food for thought some time ago and thought I'd share since it seems to fit the thread. A letter written by a pastor giving his qualifications to a potential congregation.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I understand you may be looking for a shepherd for your congregation, and I should like to apply for the position. I have many appropriate qualifications:

I've been a preacher with much success and also have had some successes as a writer.

Some say I'm a good organizer.

I've been a leader in most of the places I've been.

If you check my credentials, you'll find that I'm over 50 years of age, and in the interest of full disclosure, I will tell you myself that I have never preached in one place more than three years. In some places, I have had to leave town after my work caused riots and disturbances. And I must admit that I have been in jail three or four times, but not because of any real wrongdoing on my part.

My health is not too good, though I still accomplish a great deal. The churches I have preached in have been small, but they are located in several large cities. I must say I have not gotten along so well with the other religious leaders in those places. In fact, some have threatened me and even attacked me physically.

You should know, too, that I am not too good at keeping records. For example, I have been known to forget whom I have baptized.

With all this in mind, if you believe you can use me, I promise to do my best for you.

Any guesses as to the identity of the applicant? ;)

[theologia crucis]

Hey, it's a miracle! :)

So does Melancthon have an internet hookup, too?!

Or were just you preserved?

Is this the start of the general resurrection?!

What do the Catholic call 'em? The perpetual saints? I can't remember...

[Dr. Martin Luther]

So does Melancthon have an internet hookup, too?!

Or were just you preserved?

Is this the start of the general resurrection?!

What do the Catholic call 'em? The perpetual saints? I can't remember...

If you wish to bring Melancthon for a return, you may bid my benefactor for the borrowing of the Time Machine which brought me back here to instruct our Lord's flock in this time period. No resurrection yet, as far as I can tell. I would be amused to see Melancthon once again. :D

[Organist]

I remained amazed at people who cannot believe that our great LORD and God can protect the Word down through the centuries. If we cannot trust God, just who can we trust??

[SPALATIN]

If you wish to bring Melancthon for a return, you may bid my benefactor for the borrowing of the Time Machine which brought me back here to instruct our Lord's flock in this time period. No resurrection yet, as far as I can tell. I would be amused to see Melancthon once again. :D

What exactly would you say to him? Many consider him to be a traitor to the Lutheran faith in that he began to embrace many of the Reformed views of Calvin. Would you rebuke him for such an about face or would you lovingly debate him on those subjects and perhaps persuade him of the truth in Scripture?

[Breetai]

It is sadly unfortunate people have the guile to say bad things against St. Paul. He's been dead for what, almost nigh 1, 940 years now. In addition, they say bad things against me as well, and I've only been passed on only for 459 years now.

:preach:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*...and Blake runs away as if he's just seen a ghost...*