Theotokos

[ThereseOfLisieux]

What do the Orthodox believe about Mary the Mother of God? Was she sinless? Was she taken into heaven in her body? Is there anything else you can tell me about your belief in her?:confused:

[Moros]

Since the RC doctrine of immaculate conception stems from the doctrine of (your understanding of) original sin, we don't have any dogmatic reasons to believe she was sinless. There are two schools of thought, she was capable (like the rest of humanity) of sinning, and did, but not drastically, and the other would be she was capable but never did. Chrysostom for example held the view of the former.

orthodox have 2 dogmas on mary, which were both proclaimed before the great schism, and those two are mother of god (which theotokos means) and ever-virgin.

both rc and orthodox believe in the assumption, but in different ways. mary lived, died, and was assumed to heaven in both body and spirit. the difference here is that belief is not a formal dogma in the oc. but none the less every orthodox beleives it, and we have the feast of the dormition of the theotokos and one i believe for the assumption.

[ThereseOfLisieux]

Thank you,

This clears up the confusion.

[Moros]

I'll throw some more out there.

Orthodox do not follow any Marian Dogmas proclaimed after 787, which are: the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, Mother of the Church, The Co-redeemer or Co-Redemptrix, The Mediatrix, or Mediator of All Graces, The Advocate For the People of God, Intercessor, Helper, Benefactress and who knows what else.

Like I said before, Immaculate Conception stems from your understanding of Original Sin which differs from ours, therefore it isn't really related to Orthodox theology and was declared Dogma by Pope Pius IX using an invocation of Papal Infallibility which of course we disagree with.

The Assumption I covered above. Pope Benedict XIV Dogmatized it.

The Mother of the Church. eh. I don't really understand the theology behind this one. If the Church is the Body of Christ, and the Theotokos is the mother of Christ, then technically yeah, she's the mother of the church. However, we don't spend much time with technical details, as we are apophatic, which is focusing on the unknown, and the RCC (especially post-Aquinas) is ketaphatic, which is stressing the known. Mother of the Church was proclaimed by Pope Paul VI at V-II.

The Co-redeemer or Co-Redemptrix, The Mediatrix, or Mediator of All Graces, The Advocate For the People of God, Intercessor, Helper, Benefactress....

More recent RC Dogmas that I really have no idea where they came from. A "co-redeemer" is really not in line with Orthodox theology, the other ones are kind of obvious, not really sure what is meant by "benefactress."

[ThereseOfLisieux]

More recent RC Dogmas that I really have no idea where they came from. A "co-redeemer" is really not in line with Orthodox theology, the other ones are kind of obvious, not really sure what is meant by "benefactress."These are not dogmas, as "Mother of the Church" I don't think is, but I will check that out. (could be wrong about "Mother of the Church") The ones mentioned above are common beliefs, but not dogma, I don't understand them all either, some believe in them, some not.:)

Thank you for your further insight. I am trying to understand more about Eastern Orthodoxy.

[InnerPhyre]

Co-redemptrix is an often misunderstood title. It simply means that Mary was a part of God's plan for salvation and redemption of mankind in the He chose her to be the conduit through which the Savior came to us.

[Moros]

These are not dogmas, as "Mother of the Church" I don't think is, but I will check that out. (could be wrong about "Mother of the Church") The ones mentioned above are common beliefs, but not dogma, I don't understand them all either, some believe in them, some not.:)

Hm, last I heard they were on their way to becoming dogmas. Perhaps they haven't yet. :)

Essentialy, our basic Mariology is the same. A Catholic coming into the OC wouldn't really have any trouble adapting.

If you want to learn more in specific detail, you could check out this book:

The Life of the Virgin Mary, The Theotokos Published by Holy Apostles Convent. The most complete text on the life of the Theotokos from her Conception to her Dormition and bodily translation, including her role in the Church, treated within the framework of Sacred Scriptures, Holy Tradition, Patristics and other ancient writings, together with the Liturgical and Iconographic Traditions of the Holy Orthodox Church. 640 pp. APO304 $50.00

I haven't personally read it, but at 640 pages you know it's going to be thorough.

http://www.orthodoxbooksanditems.com/motherofgod.html

[ThereseOfLisieux]

Hm, last I heard they were on their way to becoming dogmas. Perhaps they haven't yet. :)

I haven't personally read it, but at 640 pages you know it's going to be thorough.


Some want more new Marian dogmas, however this Pope has refused many times. I don't think it is likely, and personally agree with the Pope on this one.

Thank you for the link to the book. I will check it out.:)

[Rilian]

I think this article on the Feast of the Dormition (http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/articles/articles_a/dormition.htm) has some good info.

[Oblio]

Welcome to TAW Therese :)

IP,
I understand what you are saying WRT co-redemptrix. It does help me understand the hesitation of those (Protestants) who do not immediately embrace the term Theotokos upon first hearing it because they make assumptions on what the term means.

I would also hasten to add (for any lurkers) that not only did God choose the Theotokos, but she also chose to give herself to Him in free willful obedience. I might also stress that she was much more than a conduit, in that Christ was given our human nature from her, effecting our salvation. I dislike the term conduit, for the predestination and Nestorian overtones that it carries.

[MariaRegina]

wonderful post, Reader Christopher!

[ThereseOfLisieux]

Welcome to TAW Therese :)

IP,
I understand what you are saying WRT co-redemptrix. It does help me understand the hesitation of those (Protestants) who do not immediately embrace the term Theotokos upon first hearing it because they make assumptions on what the term means.

I would also hasten to add (for any lurkers) that not only did God choose the Theotokos, but she also chose to give herself to Him in free willful obedience. I might also stress that she was much more than a conduit, in that Christ was given our human nature from her, effecting our salvation. I dislike the term conduit, for the predestination and Nestorian overtones that it carries.

:thumbsup: :amen: