I have some questions about some quotes by Martin Luther

[CEV]

Are these genuine quotes from Martin Luther?


Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.
Martin Luther (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth151410.html)

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Martin Luther (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth151422.html)

Reason is the enemy of faith.
Martin Luther (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth151411.html)
If these are genuine, why did Luther think this way? Does the Lutheran church today hold to these quotes?

These quotes are quite disturbing. Why did Luther make them?

Is it true that Martin Luther was the founder of the Protestant sect of Christianity?

[CrossWiseMag]

Luther said things like this over and against people like the Calvinists, who threw out the clear meaning of God's Word when it did not make sense to them. Thus, the words, "this is my body" were twisted and distorted to mean, "this represents my body"--despite the fact that there is no literary or theological reason to read the words in any way other than the literal way.

Luther did not oppose the use of reason, provided it didn't conflict with what God tells us. In fact, he called for the "ministerial" use of reason, as opposed to the "magisterial" use of reason. Reason must serve God's Word, and not the other way around. Others might have more specific citations on Luther's "ministerial vs. magisterial" use of reason.

[I can eat 50 eggs]

it sounds like things he said vs zwingli's bizare view on the lords supper.

[Dr. Martin Luther]

"But since the devil's bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she's wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil's greatest whore ." -- "Martin Luther's Last Sermon in Wittenberg ... Second Sunday in Epiphany, 17 January 1546." Dr. Martin Luthers Werke: Kritische Gesamtsusgabe . (Weimar: Herman Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1914),Band 51:126,Line 7ff.

"By God's grace, I know Satan very well. If Satan can turn God's Word upside down and pervert the Scriptures, what will he do with my words -- or the words of others? -- Confession Concerning Christ's Supper , Part 3. Robert E. Smith, tr. Dr. Martin Luthers Werke: Kritische Gesamtsusgabe . (Weimar: Herman Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1909), pp.499-500.

[CEV]

Luther said things like this over and against people like the Calvinists, who threw out the clear meaning of God's Word when it did not make sense to them. Thus, the words, "this is my body" were twisted and distorted to mean, "this represents my body"--despite the fact that there is no literary or theological reason to read the words in any way other than the literal way.

Luther did not oppose the use of reason, provided it didn't conflict with what God tells us. In fact, he called for the "ministerial" use of reason, as opposed to the "magisterial" use of reason. Reason must serve God's Word, and not the other way around. Others might have more specific citations on Luther's "ministerial vs. magisterial" use of reason.
Acts 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Doesn't this mean that God forbids the consumption of blood? How does that jive with the Real Presence?

[Dr. Martin Luther]

Acts 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Doesn't this mean that God forbids the consumption of blood? How does that jive with the Real Presence?

that's why....exactly

:preach:

[Tertiumquid]

Are these genuine quotes from Martin Luther?

If these are genuine, why did Luther think this way? Does the Lutheran church today hold to these quotes?

These quotes are quite disturbing. Why did Luther make them?

Is it true that Martin Luther was the founder of the Protestant sect of Christianity?From my notes, of which were partly transcribed from some lectures I heard a few years back on Luther:


Luther was quite familiar with “reason.” It’s usually the situation that those examining Luther’s use of “reason” lack a significant understanding of his theology.

Luther rejected the medieval use of the logical, “ergo” (therefore). He thought that theology is not systematic theological reasoning. It is not simply the matter of moving from one human conclusion to another. Theology is always a matter of “denote” expressed by his use of “nevertheless.” Those familiar with Luther’s way of expressing the paradox will understand what I mean.

Luther rejected the popular “prove it” mentality found in the popular theology of his day. The popular theology demanded “signs” (empirical epistemology), and also demanded “wisdom” (rational epistemology). In Luther’s concept of the “theology of the cross,” he posited a different presupposition about human knowledge and salvation. In terms of knowledge, God has placed himself above human control; He reveals Himself in the promise that elicits faith. In terms of salvation, Luther posited the “joyous exchange” in which sinners die in Christ and receive a new creation, a new life. He also expressed the magnificent dual: sinners as enemies are eliminated by Christ through death and resurrection.

In Luther’s theology, faith is a gift from God. God is in charge of our hearing His Word and our learning of Him. God controls access to Himself. The human heart responds to God by faith. God must step out of “hiding” and reveal himself to us. He doesn’t reveal Himself with signs or wisdom (through empirical epistemology or rational epistemology). He reveals Himself with a promise that invites faith. We know God only by the faith that He creates in us. Faith is active and embraces God. Faith places us at the mercy of God.

In a “traditional” concept of faith, faith is put into something that we can empirically or rationally verify. With this mind, Luther says by looking at the God of the Bible, one comes to know a “weak and foolish God,” since this God is not known by wisdom and signs (or by a process we can control). The God of the Bible reveals himself in what “reason” would think is foolishness: God is found in a crib, and on a cross.

Luther though, must not be seen as rejecting human reason. He did teach that God had fashioned His human creatures so we could learn a great deal about Him through empirical ways of learning, but reason was always to play the role of a servant. Hence, when one reads strong statements by Luther against reason (say, in some anti-Luther work from the late 19th Century), one must keep in mind that Luther valued reason, but it must be the “handmaid” to theology. It must be the servant. It is not that Luther didn’t understand the use of “reason,” it is simply the fact that “reason” must be kept in its place in theological matters.

For an excellent synopsis of Luther and reason, see: Althaus, Paul. The Theology of Martin Luther. Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1972. See particularly Part 1 Chapter 8 "Reason" p.64-71. Althaus explains this with precision. Althaus highlights how Luther saw reason as a gift from god, but yet fallen man by use of reason will never understand the gospel. althaus says that for Luther, "Reason must be miraculously renewed before it can believe the gospel" (p.69).

I've read articles in which its asserted that Luther did not understand Aristotle or Aquinas, but I have some great articles (somewhere) which clearly demonstrate that Luther had a good understanding of both. It is argued that had Luther understood these men better, he would never have formulated his theology as he did. This is simply false. If anyone is interested, perhaps it would be worth me digging up the material.


Regards,
James Swan

[CrossWiseMag]

Dr. ML makes a good point. The "life" is in the blood, according to ancient Israel. And the "life" is in the blood for believers now. The blood of Christ! It jives exactly.

[ByzantineDixie]

Dr. ML makes a good point. The "life" is in the blood, according to ancient Israel. And the "life" is in the blood for believers now. The blood of Christ! It jives exactly.
Well, doh! He is Dr. ML!!! ;) LOL Who is that guy anyway???? -----R

[theologia crucis]

Is it true that Martin Luther was the founder of the Protestant sect of Christianity?

Depends on who you ask.

To many in the RCC, ML is the destroyer of Christianity, the chief cause of all of her divisions.

To many Lutherans, ML is the Reformer of the Church, who restored Christian doctrine to its apostolicity, catholicity, and orthodxy. Many Lutherans also claim that Rome broke from Wittenberg, and not vice versa.

[Tertiumquid]

Depends on who you ask.To many in the RCC, ML is the destroyer of Christianity, the chief cause of all of her divisions.
To many Lutherans, ML is the Reformer of the Church, who restored Christian doctrine to its apostolicity, catholicity, and orthodxy. Many Lutherans also claim that Rome broke from Wittenberg, and not vice versa.
Joseph Lortz is perhaps the most famous Catholic Luther scholar of the twentieth century. His two-volume work, The Reformation in Germany, is praised by both Catholics and Protestants alike. Lortz is usually seen as the first Catholic author to put forth a full-length treatment of Luther without vilifying him. Here is a facinating quote from Lortz:

“Thirty years ago, in The Reformation in Germany, I put forth the thesis with regard to the central Reformation article, justification by faith alone, that Luther here rediscovered an old Catholic doctrine, which though was new for him and seen onesidedly. In the meantime I have not abandoned this view. On the contrary, Luther is, in fact, more Catholic than I then realized.”
Interesting. I love sharing this quote with my Catholic friends.

Regards,
James Swan

[ChiRho]

The God of the Bible reveals himself in what “reason” would think is foolishness: God is found in a crib, and on a cross.

This is where we must begin.... :clap: !

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Jim47]

This is where we must begin.... :clap: !

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
:amen:
1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. :preach:

[KagomeShuko]

LOL Who is that guy anyway???? -----R
Yeah, just WHO is he? LOL ;)

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Dr. Martin Luther]

Joseph Lortz is perhaps the most famous Catholic Luther scholar of the twentieth century. His two-volume work, The Reformation in Germany, is praised by both Catholics and Protestants alike. Lortz is usually seen as the first Catholic author to put forth a full-length treatment of Luther without vilifying him. Here is a facinating quote from Lortz:


Interesting. I love sharing this quote with my Catholic friends.

Regards,
James Swan

Bless you, James. :thumbsup:

[sculpturegirl]

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! If you guys keep this up I am going to start shouting, despite my throat! AMEN!

Didn't St. Paul, a very erudite Pharasee, count all of his "knowledge as dung" compared to the knowledge of Christ and Him crucified? (I am terrible with locating verses- can someone help me here?)

You can see how "reason" is a whore just by travelling to some of the other parts of CF. The things people are justifying by twisting the Word is astonishing!

[Organist]

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! If you guys keep this up I am going to start shouting, despite my throat! AMEN!

Didn't St. Paul, a very erudite Pharasee, count all of his "knowledge as dung" compared to the knowledge of Christ and Him crucified? (I am terrible with locating verses- can someone help me here?)

You can see how "reason" is a whore just by travelling to some of the other parts of CF. The things people are justifying by twisting the Word is astonishing!


Phl 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,


I believe this may be what you were referring to? ^_^